JaledDur Posted March 13, 2000 Share Posted March 13, 2000 That looks pretty cool. This game might not suck after all. Although I suppose I can't really say that... LucasArts has plenty of time to prove me wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted March 13, 2000 Share Posted March 13, 2000 Stop hitting me with those negative waves, man. Have you joined the petition for Dark Forces III over on Jedi Knight/MotS forum? ------------------ So be it...Jedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Conor Posted March 13, 2000 Share Posted March 13, 2000 If it is as fun as JK or DF, I will play it. I wish they would swallow their pride and use a top notch engine though. ------------------ "Preach the Gospel. If necessary, use words." -St. Francis of Assisi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted March 20, 2000 Share Posted March 20, 2000 They should. After all, Justin Chin, creator of Jedi Knight did when he chose to use the Unreal engine for his next shooter, New Legends. see: http://www.infinite-machine.com Wilhuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted March 21, 2000 Share Posted March 21, 2000 As I've said before, I'm disappointed with OB1's game engine. It doesn't stand up to be counted against the likes of Rune (modified Unreal engine), Blade (Rebel Act Studios in-house engine), Halo (seamless massive outdoor environment) or several other engines I could mention, but won't for the sake of space. It looks too much like a souped-up version of the JK engine for my liking. It was fine three years ago, but technology moves on. A lot ------------------ ----[] So be it...Jedi []---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth_Simpson Posted March 21, 2000 Share Posted March 21, 2000 Now we know the engine is built from scratch, and its gonna look far better at the end of the year. Come on, JK didn`t have the best graphics either, the gameplay was the strong point, and I believe the gameplay will be Obi-1 strong point also. ------------------ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danbeck Posted March 21, 2000 Share Posted March 21, 2000 I haven't been too excited with the screen shots.. can we say worse than JKII? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Milkman Posted March 21, 2000 Share Posted March 21, 2000 Storm: How can you be disappointed with the engine? You haven't even seen it running yet (neither have any of us, for that matter). If tradition holds, all the screenshots we've seen are pretty old by now, and we'll get our first real look at how this game will be at E3. I'm holding off on my opinion until then. DanBeck: Have you looked at JK lately? These shots are WAY better than that (as they should be). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted March 21, 2000 Share Posted March 21, 2000 Alright, Milkman, you're right. But WHY haven't we seen the engine running yet? I vote for a demo movie...NOW! ------------------ ----[] So be it...Jedi []---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deadwood Posted March 22, 2000 Share Posted March 22, 2000 All I can say is that all of you people who are judging the engine by just what you see on a screenshot, has absolutely no idea what they're talking about. A game engine is not just about graphics, of course it is part of it but in case you didn't notice there IS a lot more. First of all there is the physics part of the engine. Now anyone who says that Obi Wans games engine sux is basically saying the game engine and everything else sux(if I may put it in laymans/laywomens terms) as well. The physics for this game sound absulutely fantastic! This is a step in the right direction to creating an environment with total interactivity. Now how could you say this sux? Also, from a screen shot you can not judge animations as well. As the name implies it is a "screen shot" not "screen animation", you'll have to wait for the demo to see this in full action. Well anyway, to sum things up. Stop judging obi-wan by what you see at the tip of the iceberg. There is a lot more to a game engine than just rendering graphics. If you want something that renders graphics buy photoshop or 3d studio max, or better yet use the paint program you get with windows. I think these programs might be of more use to you than Episode 1: Obi-Wan. [This message has been edited by deadwood (edited March 21, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted March 22, 2000 Share Posted March 22, 2000 I believe there were some very early Obi-Wan animations posted online in a German preview from last years E3. Part of that included motion capture footage. Looked interesting. Short of a demo its very difficult to make meaningful conclusions on the quality of this game. Screenshot comparisons show that Obi-Wan's screenshots are subpar with other game screenshots. Even subpar some of the older games (1998's Unreal comes to mind). In some of those screens, Obi-Wan's stance looks an awful lot like the MotS character stance. Btw gamers desire both good graphics and gameplay. Its not an either/or situation. It is possible for LEC to excel in both areas, and we should expect them to. We can't actually play Obi-Wan on 3D StudioMAX... I think its pretty futile to tell a gamer that if they want decent graphics for a game they should purchase a 3d modelling/rendering tool. Noone in these forums has been able to prove that if graphics quality are sacrificed, gameplay will necessarily improve as a result. Likewise, noone has proved that if graphics are very well done gameplay will suffer as a result. Do we know whether the Obi-Wan programmers responsible for graphics systems are also responsible for gameplay (rules) systems? Do we know that they will have to sacrifice quality in graphics in order to devote time to improve gameplay performance? If someone knows the answer to this I'd like to hear it. There are other important game aspects as well, such as robust support for multiplay and editing. Editing, we have learned from recent articles, is where LEC once again has fallen flat (no editor to ship with Obi-Wan). Wilhuf Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth Kurgan Posted March 22, 2000 Share Posted March 22, 2000 danbeck! This is an unexpected pleasure... We are honored by your presence! I will second Milkman here. Are you telling me you honestly believe that the graphics of ObiWan (based on the screenshots) are "worse" than "JKII" (that is, Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight)? How can you say that? Maybe you mean aesthetically, because they are clearly more advanced than the early Sith engine provided us with. We've all heard the "graphics vs. gameplay" argument, and yes, I'd love to have the best graphics in the world in my game with my coffee. But, again, as you know, if I had to choose between outstanding graphics and outstanding gameplay, I'd choose the latter. The graphics for even the "best" games look dated in just a few short years (if not months) anyway. A dumb game with great graphics isn't much use to me as a gamer (although I could admire screenshots of it all day just for fun). Yes, we are still only speculating, as all we have are in-game screenshots and snippets of pre-info on the game all from secondary sources. Kurgan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 Graphics sell the game. Gameplay provides longevity. Its a pity there's so much willingness to frame the discussion as graphics versus gameplay when there's no reason to. Both could excel. Sacrifice in one area is no guarantee of excelence in another. I'd like to see an example of an FPS game that has excellent graphics but lacks excellent gameplay. Wilhuf [This message has been edited by Wilhuf (edited March 22, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 Wilhuf, I agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth Kurgan Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 Well then again, too, the "graphics vs. gameplay" debate also hedges heavily on personal perference. I mean there's no denying Unreal's graphics are cleary much more advanced than JK's. But some would argue that Unreal's are ugly, or too slow, etc. It all depends on what you like. I've heard dozens of people go on and on about how Unreal sucked, and had such terrible multiplayer, and etc. It had great graphics, nobody denied it when it came out, as it was the best there was. Although later on, people said that it overused colored lighting (which again, is an opinion). I disagree though, I think Unreal was a great and fun game. The graphics were great, but they weren't the reason I got the game. I got it because it was an interesting storyline and fun to play. It sold well. Graphics are the first thing people notice about a game. To my knowledge there are no competely blind video game players. Screenshots are the first things we see about a game when it's being previewed or reviewed. So in that respect you're right, graphics do sell a game. However, let me ask you something, which would you rather have, a game that was boring, but had great graphics, or a fun game with bad graphics? I think what you're saying is that a game with good graphics is automatically good in the gameplay area. Or are you not saying that? I think, as you said, there is no guarentee that in one area the game will excel and another fall down. We know LEC's games are generally known for (among other things) strong gameplay. However, most of the time, their games aren't usually the cutting edge of graphical technology when they are released. So I was just applying that trend to ObiWan. That doesn't mean it will be a good game, but we can probably expect that it's graphics will be "below the standard" (the "standard" of course being whatever the top two first person shooters are at the time it comes out), but it's gameplay will be above average. If all I cared about were graphics, I wouldn't be playing games. I could be content simply to watch demos and watch other people play, and use photoshop and 3DS max. (to use another old argument) ; ) I'm not trying to make excuses for LEC, I'm just giving you my viewpoint. I honestly would rather have one really fun gameplay experience than a hundred eye-blowing graphical displays. I can just go to an art gallery or something if I want that. Maybe for some people all the fun in a game is in admiring the graphics. If that's your cup of tea, go right ahead and enjoy it, no one's stopping you. Obviously many games without cutting edge graphics have still ended up getting good reviews, being well liked, selling well, and going down in history as being unique, good games. To the manufacturers of course, it all translates to $$$. As long as you buy it, and keep buying it, they are happy. ; ) To tell the truth, if you believe the info on sites like gamasutra, there is rarely a single factor that makes or breaks a game, it is usually a combination of things. That's why we get into such arguments over whether editing, or graphics, or gameplay. They all affect the outcome, but some more than others, and they can counteract each other. In the end, some games just don't sell well, even if they may be really good. And other games aren't really that good but make alot of money and tons of sequels. And of course what makes a "good" game, again is all personal preference. Kurgan [This message has been edited by Darth Kurgan (edited March 23, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilhuf Posted March 23, 2000 Share Posted March 23, 2000 So far the response to my hopes for Obi-Wan is pretty discouraging : 'If you want good graphics, use a rendering software tool, or go to an art gallery' and 'If you want good editing tools, go edit quake2' What do I do if I want good network code or robust multiplayer features in Obi-Wan? Play Tribes2? All in jest. It is constructive to make these kinds of comparisons though. LEC is not the only game in town. Without a doubt game sales are driven by a number of interacting factors. Every gamer has individual preferences. I do believe there is a quantifiable pattern or trend to it, and that some factors do matter more than others in terms of what makes a gamer buy a game. Graphics are clearly a significant factor. Sound, by the other hand might not be so much. Yet both in combination can make or break a good game. Even factors that have no impact on gameplay, such as packaging and price, could prompt a purchase. I feel LEC should be pushing the envelope a bit more on some of the technical aspects. Gamers have excused them in a sense by letting them make up for technical shortcomings through 'superior gameplay' or 'great in-depth story'. Or at least that is how it is rationalized. Even George Lucas has said 'A special effect without a story to back it up is a pretty boring thing.' I think LEC's games reflect that philosophy and it's more or less a good thing. However, I don't feel that LEC can be completely forgiven for falling far behind on the technical side (especially in multiplay and graphics). A great story with state of the art presentation and features is what we should be hoping for, and even expect of LEC. Wasn't that why Star Wars was so popular back in '77? A great story with state of the art presentation. Wilhuf [This message has been edited by Wilhuf (edited March 23, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 I want strong gameplay, but I also want a technically proficient and eye-pleasing game engine to back up the story and help me to 'believe' in the environments I'm exploring. I know there's a fine balance between the two, and if it comes to the crunch, gameplay has to come first. Nevertheless, LEC have had some time since JK and MotS to develop a *killer* engine - they're not exactly understaffed, are they? They are also not blind to what other game engines are out there. I hope that they do a LOT of tweaking with the engine they have developed to make it at least comparable in looks to games being released now. ------------------ ----[] So be it...Jedi []---- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest WeedSmoker Posted March 24, 2000 Share Posted March 24, 2000 If graphics are all you want, I hope that's what you'll recieve! I bet there are still people who buy a game just because of the name. "the grass is always greener" [This message has been edited by WeedSmoker (edited March 24, 2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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