Vestril Posted May 21, 2002 Share Posted May 21, 2002 Originally posted by inSpiRe- ok guys this is my theory. In episode III the senate is destryed, breaking the republic into 2 groups. the Empire and the Rebellion. The clones are taken by the empire, and turned into stormtroopers. ne1 agree with me? Why would they need to break up into Empire and Rebellion? There is already a rebellion going on, called the Seperatist movement... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trahern Valley Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I have nothing to contribute to the actual topic whatsoever. I shall simply mention it's a terrible travesty that there are kids out there who haven't watched the original trilogy before going to see the new one. Once, in JO MP, a player asked me if Darth Vader was the one in the black mask... *Cries* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bowen Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I think Obi-wan will....isn't he and Anakin that get in a major battle and Anakin falls into some sort of lava or something on that order? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prowl lightstar Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 I think Obi wan is going to go into hiding in Ep 3. He says to luke in ANH "Obi Wan Kenobi....i haven't gone by that name since, oh, before you were born." This means he has do adopt the name Ben Kenobi before luke is born. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Vestril: Numbers, as quoted in the movie - 200,000 ready now, with 1,000,000 on the way for the numbers of clones remaining. They have got 200,000 ready in 10 years, so when do you think that they will have the other million ready? We aren't talking about Jango Fett here, we are talking about clones - they will only learn, or have the knowledge that is given to them during training in their accelerated aging. They don't have any of the memories, or knowledge that Jango has, improvisation is a skill learnt through experience - it isn't something that you can "teach" a clone. Remember that Boba Fett is also a clone, but has none of the accelerated ageing, nor is he fed with the limited information, he is living a real life. He isn't modified either, so this is why he is alot more like his father, he learns whilst his father goes out and kills. A clone is basically nurtured to be a soldier, learns nothing else, so has limited knowledge behind what to do in certain situations, so lateral thinking isn't a strongpoint. They may have the basic PHYSICAL capabilities of Jango Fett, their knowledge and thinking is limited to what they are taught to believe. That is barely anywhere near enough to last over 2-3 years of battle, even if they are all available in those next 2-3 years. I don't see that 1.2 million Clone Troopers will last long into the war, considering there is a lead time to get them ready. Use any figures from the two world wars, and extrapolate them into what we would experience in Star Wars, and it's a drop in the ocean. My point about the lack of foresight in the Empire, is one of their short comings, the same as the Sith who lead them. The arrogance about the supremacy in their equipment leads them to ignore the weaknesses that are built into them. The droids were vulnerable due to the need for a central control ship, the Clone Troopers lacking in independant thought, Storm Troopers weak minded soldiers, see a pattern evolving here? There is always some major weakness that the Empire always miss, or ignore.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
editormg Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Episode III Final Duel Will be Anakin & Dooku vs Obi-Wan & Yoda with Darth Sidious Watching Dooku is killed by Yoda. Anakin is seriously sliced by Ben. Keep in mind they have to kill off Mace Windu(a key character) somehow so prehaps he learns of anakin turning to the darkside and tries to stop him earlier in the story, but is killed. This would leave room for Padme to go into hiding. But also you have to wrestle with yoda and ben going into hiding too. This means we at least have to see some of Vaders "hunt down and destroy the Jedi" The republic doesnt truely fall until ANH "The emperor has dissolved the council permantly." - Tarkin ITs Kinda funny if u think about it. At the end of Episode II the jedi are actually fighting for the empire. BC they are unaware of palpatines plot. BTW Artoo will have one last panel to reveal in the last movie probably. _Lata Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dough with Fish Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 Hmm, well, these are all good ideas and shuchwhat, I have the answer... The costume people put him in that suit! Yes, the costume people, do you all actually expect him to get into all that crap on his own?? Or maybe the makeup people, that is a close second... Booyah, the ultimate answer! Seriously though, why bust our brains over this, why not let it come as a surpirse. Hell, I'd bet there is an EU book that tells how Anakin becomes good old Darthy, maybe not the exact details, but probably gives the reader a good idea as to what happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 We aren't talking about Jango Fett here, we are talking about clones - they will only learn, or have the knowledge that is given to them during training in their accelerated aging. They don't have any of the memories, or knowledge that Jango has, improvisation is a skill learnt through experience - it isn't something that you can "teach" a clone. No...improvisation is a skill inborn to someone. Some people are only capable of dealing with laid out plans, they have to follow it to the letter or the get extremely confused and underperform. Other people are capable of dealing with new variables as they arise, and planning accordingly. Numbers, as quoted in the movie - 200,000 ready now, with 1,000,000 on the way for the numbers of clones remaining. They have got 200,000 ready in 10 years, so when do you think that they will have the other million ready? They come in batches. If they come in batches of 200,000, the other million will be fully into play in 5 years. Yes, it took 10 years to get the initial batch, but the others were being started at the same time. It only takes 10 years to grow a clone to maturity, and we see them in various stages of learning, this implies that they could have another 200,000 after the next year. This doesn't mean they were grown in a year, it just means that they were started a year later than the initial batch. Do you see how this works? A clone is basically nurtured to be a soldier, learns nothing else, so has limited knowledge behind what to do in certain situations, so lateral thinking isn't a strongpoint. They may have the basic PHYSICAL capabilities of Jango Fett, their knowledge and thinking is limited to what they are taught to believe. Obviously they are limited to what they were taught to believe. Some are taught to be troopers, who just aim and shoot, others are taught to lead the troopers. Others are taught to lead the leaders. Depending on their training and growth patterns, they work at all stages. Jango was the ultimate soldiers, and now the Republic has thousands of him fighting for them. They are neither physically nor mentally identical to him, but they still have the building blocks that made him great, and they have the training to exploit those building blocks. My point about the lack of foresight in the Empire, is one of their short comings, the same as the Sith who lead them. The arrogance about the supremacy in their equipment leads them to ignore the weaknesses that are built into them. The droids were vulnerable due to the need for a central control ship, the Clone Troopers lacking in independant thought, Storm Troopers weak minded soldiers, see a pattern evolving here? There is always some major weakness that the Empire always miss, or ignore.... Lack of foresight? The Sith? The same Sith who planned out the collapse of the Republic? No...not quite. You don't want single minded, independant troopers. Then they would run everywhere and do wahtever they wanted--this is bad. The Emperor and Empire's mistake was in not taking the Rebellion seriously, they thought it was a joke--that they were invincible, and no one is invincible. I mean, only the most arrogant of fools would send people wearing glaring white armor into a jungle battle. This has nothing to do with the quality of their troops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vagabond Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 First, a quick correction - improvisation can be learned. I've taken several improvisation classes during my theatrical training, where one is taught to think outside the box - to look at a thing or situation not for its obvious conclusion, but for something completely different. It's all about going back to that place you visited when playing with your imagination as a child. Kids can make a chair into a fort, a castle, a spaceship, or a monster, while adults will see it merely as a chair. It's all about seeing the possibilities, where other blind themselves to it as a result of their social upbringing - their repressive, conformist socialization. It's all a state of mind, not necessarily entirely genetic. Now then, to the topic of when Obi-Wan goes into hiding. I speculate that he will uncover the plot at some point before the end of Episode III. At that time he will realize that the Jedi Order is being manipulated by the Sith, and renounces his affiliation and name of Obi-Wan, and going by Ben Kenobi instead. Similarly, Yoda may renounce his participation in the Jedi Council at this time as well. Then, as a rogue Jedi, Ben confronts Anakin/Vader, and leaves him for dead. Shortly after, Yoda, who knows of both Luke and Leia, send Kenobi on a final mission - to deliver young Luke to Tatooine and watch over him. Meanwhile, Yoda secretly sends Leia off to Alderaan, now having planted two seeds for the possible future overthrow of the Empire. That's my guess. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 22, 2002 Share Posted May 22, 2002 First, a quick correction - improvisation can be learned. I've taken several improvisation classes during my theatrical training, where one is taught to think outside the box - to look at a thing or situation not for its obvious conclusion, but for something completely different. It's all about going back to that place you visited when playing with your imagination as a child. Kids can make a chair into a fort, a castle, as spaceship, or a monster, while adults will see it merely as a chair. It's all about seeing the possibilities, where other blind themselves to it as a result of their social upbringing - their repressive, conformist socialization. It's all a state of mind, not necessarily entirely genetic. I agree with the concept that it can be taught, but I don't agree with the concept that being taught is the only way that it can happen--I think that some people are genetically predisposed towards improvisation. It wasn't my intention to reduce the argument to an 'only this' debate, though I did play into that I think state of mind is very much a genetic issue, upbrining and training can only do so much. Example--if I was born without legs, I won't be an NBA star. This is extreme, but I think it helps to illustrate my point a little. Interesting EpIII concept, I think it's one of the more original and intelligent ones I've seen...it could be close to the mark, IMO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLegion Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 it should be vadar him-self Anakin is old enough to wear his own clothes cheer out, guys, just a joke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 id like to see a different version of the vader suit....one that gives him more freedom to move and thus makes him a better fighter. the only problem would be explaining why he went from a good suit to a bad one.....perhaps over the years his condition is deteriorating and in the end his later suit is needed because it has more healing properties and also, he doesnt need to fight as much in the last few years of his life compared to what he might be doing in Ep3! Divine Spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
patd316 Posted May 23, 2002 Share Posted May 23, 2002 devine what must b u said u and i have a very similer thinking pattern i again agree with what devine has stated Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkSaber-<ZeN> Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Originally posted by CupO'Coffee from what i've heard (almost nothing already mentioned) anakin challenges ob-wan to a duel and they fight. obi kicks anakin into a volcano/lave pit (whatever) and he dies. then, sidious comes by and resurrects anakin and makes him his apprentice, since anakin is overwhelmed by the anger and joins the dark side. of course, because anakins body is destroyed, he has to wear a suit that keeps him alive Reviving in StarWars? This isnt some religious crap. I believe Darth Vadar get messed up by Sidious, and then which forces him to become Vadar, and brainwashes him. I believe he did same with Maul..but, someway other. Like, How i have theory on Maul's Anakin's Father, but Sidious, somehow, got rid of his life, and Shmi won't admit it. Or, doesnt know at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Originally posted by DarkSaber-<ZeN> Reviving in StarWars? This isnt some religious crap. I believe Darth Vadar get messed up by Sidious, and then which forces him to become Vadar, and brainwashes him. I believe he did same with Maul..but, someway other. Like, How i have theory on Maul's Anakin's Father, but Sidious, somehow, got rid of his life, and Shmi won't admit it. Or, doesnt know at all. Isn't religious?.... Have you even seen Star Wars? If Maul was Vaders pop, why doesn't Anakin have horns?... Also, what do you mean by the part: but Sidious, somehow, got rid of his life... Who's life? Maul's? Maul's life ended when Obi Wan killed him... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BCanr2d2 Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Star Wars is full of religious overtones, and has been admitted so in interviews by GL. It just borrows from a lot of different religions, captures the common themes, and places them in a setting removed from our own to get it across. As for Vader, and his injuries, it is meant to be in the ROTJ novel that Anakin/Vader fell into a lava pit fighting Obi-Wan, so hopefully GL doesn't contravene this "fact" when Episode 3 comes around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted May 24, 2002 Share Posted May 24, 2002 Originally posted by patd316 devine what must b u said u and i have a very similer thinking pattern i again agree with what devine has stated erm....whatever you just said, i totally agree and by the way, its divine and no i dont think we have similar thinking patterns....sorry Divine Spirit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
striderx2048 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 falling into lava has to be a stupid storyline only the movies are canon not EU or novels of the movies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JNO_Blues Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Dooku will kill Padme and Obi Wan will keep Anakin from doing something or going somewhere and that will have and Anakin will go on a Rage like he did when his mother died. Palpatine will reveal himself to Anakin and tell him they can kill Dooku eventually Anakin will with powers of the dark side (Palpatine will use a situation like in ROTJ where he wants the more powerful one and will sacrafice his current apprentice for this. Anakin won't have any feelings because of Padme's death and will become an agent of evil and help extince the jedi and then Obi Wan and Anakin will fight and something near fatal will happen to anakin. I'm sorry but him getting reborn or whatever just seems too cheap the lava pit might happen, but everyone has been talking about that so lucas may do something else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigDAN456 Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 Originally posted by DarkSaber-<ZeN> Reviving in StarWars? This isnt some religious crap. I believe Darth Vadar get messed up by Sidious, and then which forces him to become Vadar, and brainwashes him. I believe he did same with Maul..but, someway other. Like, How i have theory on Maul's Anakin's Father, but Sidious, somehow, got rid of his life, and Shmi won't admit it. Or, doesnt know at all. I didn't think Darth Maul was human!? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLegion Posted May 25, 2002 Share Posted May 25, 2002 the actor is human .....at least;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
L337 j3/>I Posted May 26, 2002 Share Posted May 26, 2002 If it is any help, it says in the SW RPG Core book that the way Annie gets the suit is that he gets knocked into a lava pit by Obi-Wan. After this, I would surmise that we realize that Amidala is pregnant. As Anakin has gone fully to the dark side to survive his wounds, Obi-Wan goes into hiding. Then the children are born and seperated, thus allowing Obi to say that he stopped using the name Obi before Luke was born, and allowing Annie to not know about the twin thing. Anyway, EP 2 kicked ass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLegion Posted May 26, 2002 Share Posted May 26, 2002 perhaps the Emperror ambush Anakin and make him believe that it was the Jedi council in order to keep him away from Padme, so Anakin was fullfilled with anger and fully turned into the Darkside, with the suit of course.just perhaps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chaotic~Angel Posted May 26, 2002 Share Posted May 26, 2002 Maybe they all get wasted and start playing 'spin the lightsaber', explains the injuries....yodas insaneness and padme being pregnant Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
myxylplyx Posted May 26, 2002 Share Posted May 26, 2002 Vader is mostly machine not because of one particular battle, but many various ones. He loses different body parts over a long period of time and has them replaced by cybernetic devices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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