Rating the GUNS

[tempest8008]

Saber, saber, saber, saber, we all love the saber.

 

What about the guns available? Are any of THOSE unbalanced? Personally, I don't think so. There are situations where the disruptor can be annoying, especially when you get fried by someone on the other side of the map, but you can block it in MP where you can't in SP, so I'm just being sour grapes.

 

What's your favourite, and in what situation?

[Kerbit]

I think the maps, at least the CTF ones (which I play pretty much exclusively) are not designed with ammo in mind. That's not to factor in the way JK2 does ammo is just stupid, but hey, I could cope with that if ammo was plentiful enough that everyone on your team could have some.

 

Take CTF-Bespin for example: The primary weapons a defender will use are the Heavy Repeater and the Flechette weapon (which I may mistaking refer to as the assault rifle and flak cannon, respectively). Each are easily available in near the flag. However, there's only ONE thing of ammo near the flag, next to the Repeater. (But not the flak cannon, which has I think blaster pack ammo next to it.)

 

That's fine if you're playing a two-on-two or three-on-three where only one person will be hardcore defending the flag and needs ammo. But on public servers, with 6+ people per team, everyone gets off five shots and is they stuck using a lightsaber.

 

Not that the lightsaber is a weak weapon, but you try taking out a flag carrier with speed and Dark Rage on who just jumped through the sniper window and your ability to make that jump depends on how much packet loss you're experiencing at the time using just a lightsaber. Throw isn't all that powerful.

 

Can anyone point me to some decent CTF maps that are designed with ammo in mind? With ammo in the base so I don't have to run around for thirty seconds to get to the nearest set of rockets because some idiot just grabbed the last pack in the base and then fell into the void?

 

I also think the ammo counting method is severly incorrect. If you have a full set of whatever the flak and assult rifles use, you have three hundred assualt rifle bullets. I don't know how many enegy grenades you have. You have thirty flak shots. I don't know how many of those grenades you have. I'm totally for secondary fire, but if you have a full pack and you fire off a couple of grenades and follow it up with some rapid fire crazyness to take them down, when you're done you're down to 30 units left. What does that translate out to? You have to run and get more ammo.

 

I think secondary firing modes should either use a different type of ammo, or maintain a different counter. Have it show how many shots you have, not how many units you have which could mean who knows what. Have two 'bars' with numbers... one measuing the primary fire, one measuring the second, an updating accordingly.

 

And then put more ammo on the maps so I can keep on D without having to resort to using the Bowcaster.

 

...

 

That all said, I really like the rocket launcher.

 

.k.

[Blank1234]

An easy way to make that jump in bespin is with the light lunge attack. Simply jump to the max height with level 3 force jump, then do the light lunge in the air and hold the buttons down for it. Your guy will sort of jerk around and make grunting noises, but he'll continue his foward momentum. You'll then crouch in the window slot and make it through

 

Pulling repeatedly will stop anyone trying to make that jump, even with absorb.

 

Repeater/flak secondary fire takes up 25 ammo. Some quick math would tell you you have 1 secondary fire shot and 5 repeater bullets (I think flak primary takes 10 bullets, but I never use it ).

 

Blank

[SnowMongoose]

I use pretty much 4 items

(aside from health and shield pickups)

Saber

H. Repeater

Rocket Launcher

Sentry gun.

 

Thats it!

works for me.

Oh! I love pushing rockets back at people...

lol @ how many ppl rocket from the edge of cliffs!

 

Snow

[MediocreSlacker]

I personally like the stormtrooper rifle and the DEMP gun. And thermal detonators rock! We should see more of those.

[Kerbit]

Flechette weapon does take ten units per shot - meaning, max you have thirty shots. Throw in grenades and you can end up with weird numbers like 115. Repeater primary attack takes one unit per shot. Quick math is harder when you have 234 bullets. Just think, in the time you figured out it was four explosive grenades and one flak shot, or nine energy grenades and then nine repeater shots, I killed you.

 

 

The math isn't hard, but it is annoying when you'd rather just look down and say "Okay, I can do that" rather than having to just guess and hope you have enough grenades to kill Mr. Happy Yaslamiri Stealer.

 

"An easy way to make that jump in bespin is with the light lunge attack"

 

I haven't tried that. I'm about 75% successful with just a jump then duck move to get in. I also saw something earlier today, then tried it out on a listen server: if you jump onto the little slant sticking out of the pit, you can catapult off it and get in the window. You should get in the window 100% of the time. The variable is whether or not you can jump off the edge.

 

Also, you can do this trick to jump onto the balcony on the other side. imo, it's much easier than the perfect jump you need to make it in otherwise.

 

Mediocre Slacker: I like the secondary fire of the E-11 blaster rifle for pursuit of people with lightsabers out. Sometimes they run forwards thinking they're invulnerable or something. I've never been able to get anything accomplished with the DEMP gun though... got any good tactics for it?

 

.k.

[MediocreSlacker]

Kerbit:

 

The DEMP gun has a few advantages. For one thing, the primary shots are not bounced back at you by someone using a lightsaber. Although primary fires much more slowly than the ST rifle's secondary fire, it is pretty useful sometimes.

 

The secondary fire is pretty cool looking. You can charge it up to shoot an extremely fast ball of energy that can make a huge electrical explosion thingy where it impacts. The explosion knocks people around a LOT. Try sniping with it on the Nar Shadaa FFA level to knock people off the catwalks. Be sure aim in front of them a little bit, as the explosion takes a little while to expand.

 

You know what's wierd? Create a game with a jedi master bot in it, and fire off uncharged secondary shots at the ground in front of the bot. Note the expert way in which the bot dodges the explosion. It's almost uncanny.

 

Does anyone have any fun things to do with the DEMP gun?

 

slacker

[greedo626]

I know, I know. People don't like snipers and people don't like me. I snipe in ctf all the time. I almost always hit my target or I'll die trying (really). Because nobody can steal the flag with me sniping they will either try to kick me or send all their guys to kill me (neither works ). therefore I would choose two weapons for ctf, they are:

the lightsaber and the Tenloss Disruptor Rifle.

 

of course the repeater, rocket launcher, and flechett are helpfull too.

 

ps.

I also use the DEMP to knock people off of walkways on Nar Shadaa.

[Nakar]

Here's a personal opinion piece on the weapons, from my POV:

 

STUN BATON

Pros: Free, it's SHOCKING!, successfully killing with it marks you as God himself.

Cons: Weak, short-ranged, makes you look gimpy, total vulnerability.

Rating: D+

 

BRYAR PISTOL

Pros: Accurate, cheap, charging shots do tons of damage if you aim well, can't be taken from you.

Cons: Slow to charge, pretty obvious when you're doing it, needs to be used as an ambush or finisher unless you're very clever about it.

Rating: B

 

E-11 STORMTROOPER RIFLE

Pros: Two fire modes, can spam even a saber user, decent damage, ammo is plentiful, especially given how anemic most maps are about ammunition, inaccuracy can be a pro when you're firing at medium range.

Cons: Burns ammo quickly, somewhat inaccurate, primary mode is incredibly easy to block or dodge, shots move somewhat slowly (for a LASER).

Rating: A-

 

TENLOSS DISRUPTOR

Pros: Incredibly strong, almost unblockable, fires and hits instantly (no need to lead), has a scope, can be charged when zoomed to vaporize people, doesn't waste too much ammo.

Cons: Slightly slow firing time, can be dodged unless you're patient and skilled at aiming, leaves you vulnerable, scope cuts down on your visibility spectrum, power cells can sometimes be scarce on a map.

Rating: A

 

WOOKIEE BOWCASTER

Pros: Reasonably strong, cheap ammo-wise, can spread-fire, ricochet shots fired into close quarters are very likely to hit something.

Cons: Bolts move very slowly, easy deflection, doesn't fire fast and cycles very slowly, charge can't be held indefinitely, ricochet shots can't be spread-fired, power cells can be hard to find.

Rating: C

 

IMPERIAL HEAVY REPEATER

Pros: Fires VERY fast, primary mode doesn't consume ammo as much as you might think, spams even the most dedicated saberist and rarely hits you except in close, has a punishing secondary fire mode, has surprisingly good accuracy and a "tight" spread even at long ranges.

Cons: Secondary fire CAN be pushed, primary mode can be deflected and in close can start to chip away at the user, secondary mode rips through ammo, metallic bolts are often scarce on many maps, and you need to refresh often.

Rating: A-

 

GOLAN FLECHETTE

Pros: "Shotgun" effect, tons of damage, difficult to block or deflect, has an excellent secondary fire mode with two grenades that explode on impact, or become timed explosives should they miss, grenades can be bank-shot around corners to keep the user safe or prelude to an assault.

Cons: Ammo-hog, ammo is rare, secondary-fire grenades can be deflected back at the user, explosion radius on grenades is small whereas the grenades are large and easy to see, so it's unlikely that the timed explosion will hurt anyone.

Rating: B+

 

DEMP GUN

Pros: Effectively unblockable, causes electrical stun and knockback, primary fire can do excellent damage if aimed at the head, secondary fire mode can be charged to produce a quick-moving area-effect stun with good power and massive knockback, and the secondary "shot" that precedes the explosion is functionally invisible, making the user hard to find.

Cons: Generally weak, primary mode is rather slow, secondary charge is very visible, "explosion" radius on the secondary mode is NOT instantaneous and can be dodged, somewhat ammo-dependent, most useful when pits or other hazards are around to make use of knockback.

Rating: B- (except on levels where knockback can be instantly lethal, in which case B+ or better)

 

PORTABLE MISSILE SYSTEM

Pros: It's a rocket launcher, baby! long range, decent accuracy, a secondary "lock-on" mode, tons of damage, unblockable in the general sense, basically unpushable if fired from the arc of a level 3 Force Jump.

Cons: Impossible to find adequate ammo on most maps, rockets can be pushed or pulled at times, explosion radius is large but not massive, max ammo count is low.

Rating: A

 

THERMAL DETONATOR

Pros: It's a grenade! Can be used as a timed or contact explosive, can be thrown around or over barriers and around corners, does a fair amount of damage with good knockback, explosion has a reasonable radius, is sometimes hard to see coming, especially when dropped from overhead.

Cons: Not as strong as you'd imagine, characters have pathetic throwing arms (seriously, they throw these things as if they were made of lead), even if they jump first, explosion radius is surprisingly small, timed mode is a bit long, no ricochet on the contact explosives, can only carry a very small number of them, easily pushed and pulled.

Rating: C+

 

TRIP MINE

Pros: Good damage, the perfect trap, primary tripwire mode produces a long beam that is difficult to see in many cases, secondary mode is nigh-undetectable, some of the best weapons for laying traps and softening up targets, can be used as a poor man's grenade if you're skilled at throwing them properly.

Cons: Don't always get positioned the way you want them, sometimes explode on their own or disappear (apparently the level can only stand so many), can be disarmed with a single Bryar shot, proximity mode needs to be made use of quickly, explosion radius is merely so-so.

Rating: B

 

DET PACK

Pros: TONS of damage, good explosion radius, can be perfectly timed to go off when YOU want them to go off, stick to walls and obstacles for additional hiding pleasure, an utter disaster for anyone smart enough to combine with Seeing for instant corner-kills.

Cons: Can be pushed if thrown or planted, go off on their own after a while, explode if fired upon, radius is surprisingly small.

Rating: B+

[Lucky]

You can't pull any shot. I've tested this repeatedly, simply can't do it, all u can do is push.

 

All of the projectiles can be pushed, even the blasters.

 

The golan delivers quick insta kills up close, 1 primary shot + 1 2ndary shot = one kill.

 

Easily the most lethal weapon in the game is the detonator packs. U think the backslash is bad? Try pulling someone over and putting a detonator pack on top of them, insta kill, no counter. BTW, u can't nudge any of the plantable explosives once they've been laid.

 

Everything should be as lethal as the detonators, then the game might play right.

 

BTW, should up the golan's grade there, u can weapon jump with it if u can find glass or a force field or a willing teamate.

 

One more thing, rage/speed = no mana. People using it are extremely vulnerable to push/pull. If someone manages to get onto the platform and off of it they're either extremely skilled or you weren't paying enough attention.

 

As far as I can tell, I was the first person to figure out that window jump with rage/speed. I've never seen anyone I haven't taught using it. I can almost guarantee u the person u saw doing it was probably _WC_AnDeRs, or another WC or a Faranor or a Llama. Me being Anders of course =P

 

Pay attention and be nimble on yer feet on that platform and u've got it covered. If you push anywhere on that platform yer gonna rocket the poor sod off of it. He's got to kill you first to avoid getting easily smacked.

 

The guns are pretty damn crappy in this game, I'd focus on the force first and the guns second.

 

 

Lucky aka "_WC_AnDeRs"

 

PS: and I totally agree with anyone who says there isn't enough ammo in the maps. U can't hold enough ammo to kill someone unless yer very good at getting direct shots with highly innacurate weapons.

[Pedantic]

My absolute favorite weapon is the blaster. It's so much fun. I have become very skilled with using it in conjunction with special jumps and everything (in 3rd person, of course).

[Blank1234]

"Try pulling someone over and putting a detonator pack on top of them, insta kill, no counter. "

 

Absorb. Shooting explosive rounds will probably detonate the detonator.

 

Blank

[BigMexican]

i tend to use saber up close and guns at range. this generally gives me something to shoot when i want to shoot something. i might not always have 300 bolt ammo but i'll generally have something i can shoot with. i think that unless you use guns exclusively, then there's enough ammo around. disappointing that dead people dont drop ammo though.

 

and yeah, speed + absorb = easy cap in saber only. not in gun servers however, since the saber cant defend behind you, and running backwards is hard, then all a defender needs to do is hit the person in the back. my fav for this is of course the E-11. good rate of fire, and better accuracy than the repeater. sniper rifle is also good, but speed complicates it. also, level 3 seeing makes it useless

[Kerbit]

One more thing, rage/speed = no mana. People using it are extremely vulnerable to push/pull. If someone manages to get onto the platform and off of it they're either extremely skilled or you weren't paying enough attention.

 

Yeah, I know. The move I described wouldn't actually work, because you wouldn't have any force power left to jump to the window. I was just trying to be excessive. But yeah, you can jump to the other balcony, which is a neat trick.

 

Have you experimented with Team Engerize with it on? I haven't been able to play with another person to test things out, and I dunno if Team Energize'll help you if you're force pool is 'on hold' because of powers being active. That be a great tactic - someone turns on Rage and Speed with the flag and then your teammates give him an entire force pool so he doesn't get pull anywhere and if he gets in a fix he can still jump and stuff.

 

BTW, should up the golan's grade there, u can weapon jump with it if u can find glass or a force field or a willing teamate.

Why not just jump with detonators? You don't need anything but armor. If you position yourself at the correct place, you can fire up to three detpacks under yourself, giving you enough boost to get to the pipes above the flag in CTF-Bespin. Two can launch you from one sniper balcony to another. It's all about shielding, though.

[Lucky]

no detonators in nar shadda.

 

The trick with the sniper window is all about the speed yer moving at. The collision detection kind of breaks down when u hit a wall going that fast, and it pops u up in the air.

 

So if you strafe jump with rage/speed into the wall anywhere below the window, it pops u up above it enough that u can crawl thru it. I use it all the time.

 

And yeah we have tried energize, the problem is that its faster in almost every map including narshadda to simply strafe jump, and it makes strafe jumping more difficult than it should be cause yer always usin a lil mana here and there.

 

With no mana its much easier to perform a normal jump, since thats all u can do.

 

BTW blank1234, absorb is only gonna work if u have the sense to put it on well before i approach u with my detonator's in hand, and I tend to hide around corners to prevent against that. Its still not a counter, more of a preventative measure.

 

Also, u can't fire a gun on the ground, and i lay the dets right on top of them, as they get up the det sits on their heads, and it doesn't move. And if u did fire a gun at the det sitting on yer own head, u'd die that much quicker.

 

 

Lucky

[Blank1234]

nar shadda FFA level has detonators, but the CTF doesn't... not sure which you were talking about.

 

"BTW blank1234, absorb is only gonna work if u have the sense to put it on well before i approach u with my detonator's in hand, and I tend to hide around corners to prevent against that. Its still not a counter, more of a preventative measure."

 

The move you posted requires pull + detonator. If you can't pull me, I counter your tactic. Absorb stops pull... how is that not a counter? Don't argue semantics

 

Anytime I see a guy, I'll flip on absorb. With guns involved (even without), fights usually don't last more than 10 seconds which is a LONG fight for me. I'm not saying I win every engagement, but I'll live or die in that period unless the guy is using some insane defensive tactics (bacta, running to health, speed/rage to dodge, etc).

 

Obviously, if I don't see you I'll probably be nailed... but that's no different than pull/backstab (Which'll do more damage, minus the ammo cost). How many times will you get be before I start looking around those corners? Or actually break down and get sight level 3

 

 

"Also, u can't fire a gun on the ground, and i lay the dets right on top of them, as they get up the det sits on their heads, and it doesn't move. And if u did fire a gun at the det sitting on yer own head, u'd die that much quicker."

 

With absorb, you'll never knock the guy down unless you kick him. I more or less meant shooting explosive rounds while you try to throw detonators when you miss with your pull

 

As said before, if you did manage to pull you could backstab for no ammo, more damage, and you'd save yourself a detonator round... if your worried about the glow giving away your hiding place, turn off your saber.

 

Blank

[morte_man]

I love the E-11 blaster rifle. In mp when i a jedi with his saber is rushing towards me swinging wildly, I just open fire with the alternate and laugh as all the shots hit cause he is spinning aournd like a maniac. Aside from that i love force pushing rockets back at people.... that was pointless....