Ok, some news on 1.04

[G0G0GadgetForce]

This better not be the last patch! People are still buying this game daily. You would think it would continue to be supported and even expansion packs would be released in the future.

 

Sounds like Raven is pulling the same crap Valve did with Counterstrike.

 

If you are not going to support this game, release the sp and the mp SDK so we can support it ourselves!

[Rogue74]

I'm glad they are working on some of the problems!

 

I don't think that backstab/backsweep is a problem as a move (more the players) but there needs to be a penalty to the player performing the pull and backstab/sweep. Maybe make it so that if a person pulls than performs a backstab/sweep then it will totally run out their Force meter. You can usually get away if you're prepared for it, so that would give the pullers something to think about, and the pullee a way to retaliate. Usually the people doing those moves aren't the brightest or most skilled of players, so once their trick has puffed out they would get it. Just an idea.

[Chang Wufei]

I completely agree with the first 5, but not sure about the last one:

 

1) First of all fix backstab ASAP. I dont care how, make it blockable, unturnable, remove the move altogether or whatever. Fix it, it was never meant to be like this, according to that developer letter.

 

2) Backtracking should also be fixed ASAP, IMHO.

 

3) Make it so you could actually lose your saber when throwing it, *completely* like single player.

 

4) up the damage on the lightsabers a tiny weeny bit. They're not lethal enough, and without backstab, fights can drag on endlessly.

 

5) Adopt the push/pulling of items from single player. Raven has already shown us that it could be done, there's really no reason not to do it IMO.

 

6) Implement the idea of manual blocking, though automatic blocking can happen if your guard is not up, but it will cost you force. This idea is commented in the feedback forum.

 

 

Well said.

[Nill the Mean]

I don't really care about the backtracking... it might be cool if they change it. The most important issues are still:

 

1. Too much blocking. The radius should be smaller and the collsion needs tweaking. So now and then I see my saber bouncing off people who are draining or even when I hit them in the back. I have seen people take it in the gut and suddenly block. I'm seeing this happen with a ping of 30-40 so it isn't lag.

The same blocking you have now but then in a 90 degree arc, with the collision detection only functioning within this arc. You could keep the effectiveness this way yet make it more believable. Collision feels really bugged now.

 

2. More damage. If the blocking gets toned down, this might not be needed. But to make sure, I think they should up the damage on all normal attacks. Sometimes I now see someone get cut clean across the mid-section in medium and only lose about 30 hp. I would say you should lose at least 50 for something like that.

 

3. The backstab... tweak it a bit. Make attacking things in front of you more rewarding than backstabbing. Then who'll ever want to spam it again?

 

4. Remove damage noise for anything less than 10 hp. Good way to know if you landed a hit or not.

 

5. Add the fists!!!

[Havoc Stryphe]

Artifex and others are claiming that this new patch 1.03 takes away from the competitive players and ruins the game for them. I ask you, this is a computer GAME right, not an olympic sport?

 

WEBSTER'S Defines Game as:

 

game (gâm), -n 1.an amusement or pastime 2. the apparatus employed in playing any of certain games 3. a contest for amusement in the form of a trial of chance, skill, or endurance, according to set rules 4. a single contest at play, or a definite portion of play 5. the number of points required to win a game 6.a particular manner or style of playing a game 7. a proceeding carried on like a game 8. a trick; strategy 9. fun; sport of any kind 10 wild animals, including birds and fishes, such as are hunted or taken for food or profit

 

etc... the rest of the definitions have to do with the wild animal and hunting themes

 

the ongoing theme here is fun and/or amusement. You purchased a game just as everyone else here did. By definition, we expect to have fun with this game. Instead you would rather define your existence with the statistics you acquire playing this game. You have lost site of what it is this product was designed for... fun.

 

If you believe that it is only fun to acquire points/frags/wins, then you will lead a most disappointing lifetime. You can't always win, and if you base your happiness off winning, then you will find yourself amongst some serious bouts of depression within your lifetime. You do realize you could still win, with every aspect of this game nerfed, but it would take a little (or a lot) longer?That is unacceptable to you. You must acquire points/frags/wins as fast as possible and accumulate enough to keep your "cyber status" of uber-coolness. Why is this? Is it because your reality is out of your control and not as you'd like it, so you find something that you CAN control and slowly base your happiness on that reality, and if someone came along and changed things to where your amount of control waivers or even diminishes you become indignant and/or aggressive to the point of elitism?

 

We as a gaming community want to have fun, of course this is why Raven & Lucasarts released Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast as just that: a game. Perhaps if it was released as a Job, career, utility, weapon, tool etc. you could justify the amout of complaining and vocalized bashing you have spewn forth, and rightly so. THose devices are meant for more serious and exact apllications. However, games are meant for fun. Sometime I wonder if you guys can even say that word without twitching and/or falling to the floor convulsing madly.

 

I, for one and as many others have mentioned, can have fun when being struck down by a player in all their ass-fighting glory. I can get a kick out teh many ways I've died. I have fun learning from my mistakes and those of others. But I sense that you base your existance on your ability to amass large scores, maybe even your self worth, therefor stripping the game of it's inherent "fun factor". It becomes nothing more than war waged on each other. The kind of war that to the winners goes the spoils of status. It becomes a mental drain, an obcession to prove yourself to those noobies or unknowingly wander into your self-proclaimed crusade and to continue your dominance over those you've sent packing before.

 

Why else wuld you need "instant" kills, If not to acquire large amounts of score as quickly as possible? You simply ignore the fun aspect and begin your crusade to control that which has replaced the reality which you can't control, all the while ruining it for those who have come to experience fun with a game that delivers 3D immersion and a Star Wars atmosphere.

 

Shame on you for ruining the community, and discouraging noobies from darkiening our doorway! Shame on you for attempting to single-handedly muddy a software developing companies good name by rash and judgemental verbal bashings! But most of all, I feel sorry for you that you would rob yourself of the experience of true fun. It is you who will go through life strangely imcomplete and lacking true happiness. You will try to live your happiness through the lives of your children, all the while pushing them into the viscious cycle you yourself could not escape. If you can get this worked up over a game, just imagine what how you'll deal with the real delimmas you'll undoubtedly face sometime in your lives. Jobs/careers, layoffs, breakups, deaths, mortgages etc...

 

You should evauluate your lives and your definition therein of "fun", because that's what this game is all about, wether it be version 1.03 or 9.64, so sit back relax and enjoy the simple things in life, like getting lucky and accidentally killing an opponent online with a move you never intended to make!

[Havoc Stryphe]

Artifex and others are claiming that this new patch 1.03 takes away from the competitive players and ruins the game for them. I ask you, this is a computer GAME right, not an olympic sport?

 

WEBSTER'S Defines Game as:

 

game (gâm), -n 1.an amusement or pastime 2. the apparatus employed in playing any of certain games 3. a contest for amusement in the form of a trial of chance, skill, or endurance, according to set rules 4. a single contest at play, or a definite portion of play 5. the number of points required to win a game 6.a particular manner or style of playing a game 7. a proceeding carried on like a game 8. a trick; strategy 9. fun; sport of any kind 10 wild animals, including birds and fishes, such as are hunted or taken for food or profit

 

etc... the rest of the definitions have to do with the wild animal and hunting themes

 

the ongoing theme here is fun and/or amusement. You purchased a game just as everyone else here did. By definition, we expect to have fun with this game. Instead you would rather define your existence with the statistics you acquire playing this game. You have lost site of what it is this product was designed for... fun.

 

If you believe that it is only fun to acquire points/frags/wins, then you will lead a most disappointing lifetime. You can't always win, and if you base your happiness off winning, then you will find yourself amongst some serious bouts of depression within your lifetime. You do realize you could still win, with every aspect of this game nerfed, but it would take a little (or a lot) longer?That is unacceptable to you. You must acquire points/frags/wins as fast as possible and accumulate enough to keep your "cyber status" of uber-coolness. Why is this? Is it because your reality is out of your control and not as you'd like it, so you find something that you CAN control and slowly base your happiness on that reality, and if someone came along and changed things to where your amount of control waivers or even diminishes you become indignant and/or aggressive to the point of elitism?

 

We as a gaming community want to have fun, of course this is why Raven & Lucasarts released Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast as just that: a game. Perhaps if it was released as a Job, career, utility, weapon, tool etc. you could justify the amout of complaining and vocalized bashing you have spewn forth, and rightly so. THose devices are meant for more serious and exact apllications. However, games are meant for fun. Sometime I wonder if you guys can even say that word without twitching and/or falling to the floor convulsing madly.

 

I, for one and as many others have mentioned, can have fun when being struck down by a player in all their ass-fighting glory. I can get a kick out teh many ways I've died. I have fun learning from my mistakes and those of others. But I sense that you base your existance on your ability to amass large scores, maybe even your self worth, therefor stripping the game of it's inherent "fun factor". It becomes nothing more than war waged on each other. The kind of war that to the winners goes the spoils of status. It becomes a mental drain, an obcession to prove yourself to those noobies or unknowingly wander into your self-proclaimed crusade and to continue your dominance over those you've sent packing before.

 

Why else wuld you need "instant" kills, If not to acquire large amounts of score as quickly as possible? You simply ignore the fun aspect and begin your crusade to control that which has replaced the reality which you can't control, all the while ruining it for those who have come to experience fun with a game that delivers 3D immersion and a Star Wars atmosphere.

 

Shame on you for ruining the community, and discouraging noobies from darkiening our doorway! Shame on you for attempting to single-handedly muddy a software developing companies good name by rash and judgemental verbal bashings! But most of all, I feel sorry for you that you would rob yourself of the experience of true fun. It is you who will go through life strangely imcomplete and lacking true happiness. You will try to live your happiness through the lives of your children, all the while pushing them into the viscious cycle you yourself could not escape. If you can get this worked up over a game, just imagine what how you'll deal with the real delimmas you'll undoubtedly face sometime in your lives. Jobs/careers, layoffs, breakups, deaths, mortgages etc...

 

You should evauluate your lives and your definition therein of "fun", because that's what this game is all about, wether it be version 1.03 or 9.64, so sit back relax and enjoy the simple things in life, like getting lucky and accidentally killing an opponent online with a move you never intended to make!

[Spider AL]

You posted it twice, and it made twice as little sense.

 

Tennis is a game, it's also a sport.

 

Quake is a game, it's also a sport.

 

Soccer is a game, it's also a sport.

 

A sport for MONEY. Cash prizes are common to all three above. The odd one out? Quake. It's a computer game. But it's also a competitive sport with hefty prize money in certain tournaments. I love it when people drag out a dictionary definition for nothing.

[BlackDove]

lol, I love that too

[C'jais]

Dark begger, stop shadowboxing and putting arguments in my mouth and in everyone's else.

 

I ALDREADY stated why i don't like the backstab, and i think i must've stated it at least 10 times now. I also proposed several solutions to it. Don't you think something is wrong with it? If backstab was removed what would then be spammed? I don't know, nor care, but i'd rather see a frontal attack be spammed than a backwards. And i'd rather see someone's face than his butt (though that rodian butt is quite cute IMO).

 

Also, I realize that you haven't read all of my posts, but (surprisingly) my opinion on 1.03 has changed. And it wasn't because I played 1.03 more, but rather because of the fine articulate people in here. But you, dark begger, haven't changed my opinion on 1.03, because you have a very hostile way of "argueing". Calm down for heavens sake.

 

Yes, I haven't played much 1.02, but i knew the moment that i started my first botmatch that this was just like jk1. Not boring in itself, but it could be so much more, if you catch my meaning. Raven is trying hard to make it better, but they need help. Posting in these forums in a polite, thoughtful manner helps them. But screaming aloud and cursing does not.

 

And of cause it's my OPINION. The way you're describing it, it sounds like i'm a serial killer or that the way i post somehow limits your god-given right to speak freely.

 

Have a good day, i just passed a test in school with flying colors.

[Dark Begger]

"Godammit you people are brickheads! "

 

-posted by our very own cjais...

 

 

You were telling me to be calm, and argue in an 'articulate' manner. I would advise you to take the time to figure this out YOURSELF, before you are so quick to judge me.

 

 

I played JK1, and JK2 1.02 was COMPLETELY different than JK1...you must have gone online into some server with BGJ duel map running and didn't actually watch the fights...I don't know..but IMO, JK2 1.02 was nothing like JK1...

 

ok, well here's some things YOU said to me:

 

1)"because you have a very hostile way of "argueing". Calm down for heavens sake. "

 

2)"

 

Posting in these forums in a polite, thoughtful manner helps them. But screaming aloud and cursing does not. "

 

Now here's what you said to me in ANOTHER post:

 

1) "Godammit you people are brickheads!

No one is going to change your opinion on anything, since you're all so stubborn. Go back to your cave of grumpiness.

 

The comment about "We have insight. You have NOT" just tells us about how you cannot adapt, and is a silly excuse for slamming a very good idea. And don't give me any elitist crap, this forum is so newbie-hating that it hurts my head to read it. "

 

 

Now cjais, my turn to give you some advice, calm down for heavens sake, you should be posting in these forums in a polite, thoughtful manner. Screaming aloud and cursing does not help.

[Havoc Stryphe]

Originally posted by Spider AL

You posted it twice, and it made twice as little sense.

 

Haha, that's funny, well done! Did you think that one up all by yourself? OK, are we done being immature 10 yr olds? Forgive me if you really are 10, it's really hard to tell simply by your posts. My computer gliched and I ended up double posting, sorry I messed up your perfect forum experience, maybe we should scream for a patch for the forums that helps make it impossible to double post, that seems more your speed!

 

 

Tennis is a game, it's also a sport.

 

Quake is a game, it's also a sport.

 

Soccer is a game, it's also a sport.

 

A sport for MONEY. Cash prizes are common to all three above. The odd one out? Quake. It's a computer game. But it's also a competitive sport with hefty prize money in certain tournaments. I love it when people drag out a dictionary definition for nothing.

 

Okay, so you managed to redirect focus to some of our other short-comings as a society to make the first half of my post seem less damaging and even less pertinent. what about the second half, the actual meat-and-potatoes? You know the real question as to what's the driving force behind your costant droning of inhumanities committed against you by Raven and other general shortcomings of the new patch.

 

Why is it SO important to you to retain some kind of one swing kills or "fast frags"? How does this simple variable equate fun in your minds? Where does this make or break a game? Please be so kind as to share with the rest of us the reasoning behind your perverted need to acquire wins So fast and doing so without requiring much skill!

 

Oh, and by the way, if money is what makes your world spin 'round, and puts a smile on your face, then that answers some of my questions. And all I can say, if that is the case, is good luck, let me know what it is like to have happiness within arms reach but never getting there and never figuring out why!

[C'jais]

Hehe, you got me there begger...

 

Yes, i called you a brickhead, but I won't delve any deeper into what you've called other people.

 

I contradicted myself there, and I'm sorry.... I guess you're not.

 

Please find some other posts where i lost my temper, and please adress my other points.

 

I'm not your personal punching bag for christs sake.

[Dark Begger]

Tennis is a game, it's also a sport.

 

Quake is a game, it's also a sport.

 

Soccer is a game, it's also a sport.

 

A sport for MONEY. Cash prizes are common to all three above. The odd one out? Quake. It's a computer game. But it's also a competitive sport with hefty prize money in certain tournaments. I love it when people drag out a dictionary definition for nothing. --------------------------------------

 

What he's saying is that those things are all games, and many people take them seriously and have careers in them. There is nothing wrong with taking a game seriously, if you think there is, then go find another society to live in where people don't..I'm sure Africa has some places..although they love soccer also...so guess not.

 

 

And as for why is it important to have 1 hit kills?

 

Well let me put it this way, next time, take a knife, and put it through your body into your left chest...all the way in. Let's see if you live.

 

Ok ok...I understand how some people want fun over realism, but the way I brand fun, and I'm sure others too..is when you play the game, you think that at any moment you could be sliced down by a light saber and die. if the 1 hit kills were taken out...then that sense of danger is gone. I am not saying 1 hit kills should dominate the game, but should be present to insert a sense of caution to the players during a duel. The 'I may die on the next hit' thrill of setting up your next attack is great, and inevitably 'fun'.

 

As to yoru comment of not requiring much skill, I bet you that a new found 1 hit kill user (new assfighter..) won't do nearly as well as a skilled backstab user (usually not ass fighters..but do a last minute turn and slice kind of deal..). The move requires skill, and also requires skill to dodge it. if you are telling me you are dying to no skill 1 hit users, then obviously your skill level is not really as high as you believe it is?

[Dark Begger]

I usually try not to make personal attacks at any one person, but sometimes I just lose my temper when someone attacks me, and that's why I attack back. The post where I responded with the snide remark about his mother was out of line, but I don't understand how his post helped in anyway. He was just trying to attack me. I guess I over defend myself at times, which I am sorry, but somtimes it can't be helped.

 

But I still keep my stance on 1.02 and 1.03. lol

[Robbiesan]

lol

[C'jais]

Good then begger,

 

I am sorry, and you are sorry.... we are both sorry.

I guess....

 

Talking about this patch is really starting to feel like beating a dead horse for me....

[Dark Begger]

that's true...but it seems, if we want (we as in pro 1.02) changes in our favor, we have to complain like the rest so that 1.04 will turn out in ah appy medium between 1.02 and 1.03.

[Awol]

quick way to solve everyone problems with v1.03 leave it as it is but make all the specials currently 2 per stance use force power. The backstabbers will still have there one hit kills but they can't spam it all the time. Lets face it JK2 is a fighting game (duel servers that is) follow what they do in fighting games all specials have use a power bar that needs to be charged, well since JK2 doesn't have a power bar use the force bar.

 

Awol

 

My $0.02 take it or leave it doesn't matter to me I'm having fun playing this game.

[Dark Begger]

that is an interesting idea, but the idea of using force to swing your saber? Just doesn't sit well with me when it comes to starwars...

[C'jais]

So true begger,

 

And everyone is in their good right to complain, no doubt there, but this topic in all of its entirety is just starting to wear on me.

 

Tired about talking about the same thing, you could say.

 

Awol, you idea is good. BTW, begger, what he meant was that only the specials use force (lunge and so on i take it). But i also agree with begger that moves shouldn't cost force in themselves, it's just that they need a way to be less spammed. Whatever that way is. It might feel a little forced if you so blatantly restrained people's choices. I don't know about this really, but this idea has been mentioned recently in the feedback forum i think.

[Dark Begger]

well, it is difficult to find a way to have it less spammed. I don't think it is actually a problem in nf servers, as the n00b assfighters don't do too well in nf...

 

when it comse to a ff server, the main problem is pull-special. I guess the only way to stop this is to have pull not knock you down. I know I know..knocking down is integral, but I think, if they changed kick back to 1 button tap, and kept pull, the 'making fall down' effect can still be pulled off...*with the kcik obviously.

 

Now, with that, I remember the kick pushing the player backwards, slightly further, so you would have to go up close to get some shots in.

 

So, if this was done, then after the person was kicked down, when the kicker tries to run forward and do 180 degrees back specials, there is more time for the kicked to get up and away.. but if the kicker decided to run up and swing..they could probably get 1 hit off..not a special, but a clean hit. what do you think?

[Awol]

Don't think that swing a saber uses force power than the move needs it to work, Take for example the yellow flip slash special I know very few people could flip like that but think what it involves to jump flip and swing a sword like that, force is used for that move for sure. The backstab could be agrued that the force does the seeing for the blade blah blah blah. normal swings would still be normal no force or anything. Also another idea for the pull/knockdown - backstab would be let the player decide when to stand up as it is now it automatic with a chance on making a little faster (tho it never seems to work for me) take the automatic stand out that way people who are knockdown could wait until the backstaber is finished and then stand.

 

Awol

[C'jais]

Yup that'd work i think. Granted, I haven't seen much pull/backstabbing when i play, but it's really horrific to look at...

 

I don't mind the kick thing, i hardly ever use it, only if someone decides to spam it and i feel like showing that i can play along just as bad... so to speak.

 

Good workout around the problem.

[Kurgan]

I hate to get involved with another (IMHO) pointless argument (since the devs will do what they want, not what "whiners" want, as the old saying goes), but here's one point I had to make:

 

Also, do me a favour. Run backwards, and tell me you move as fast as when you run forwards. If you can, well then I guess the current situation is fine.

 

This is completely irrelevant. Why? Well first off, it's a game, and games are full of unrealistic, impossible things and situations. Why? Because realism doesn't always equal fun. Most games are wildly unrealistic. Multiple lives, guns that don't break down and need to be cleaned, people who run and jump around and don't get tired, or take major damage and still function as if they just got out of the health spa or something, etc. Multiplayer even more so.. why are these people fighting to the death? Why not use diplomatic means.. why not call in for backup, why not figure a way to escape from that battle arena and find food??

 

So you see, it really doesn't matter at all if YOU (who aren't even a Jedi or world-class commando like Han Solo or Kyle Katarn) can't do something, but in the game you can. Games are about fantasy. In games you can do things that are impossible (or would land you in jail or a mental institution) in real life. That's why we have games, to indulge these fantasies safely and have fun, while we compete in games of skill and chance. It's not about having the most realistic simulation of real life possible (at least not when it comes to Star Wars games or first person shooters).

 

Heck, even the so-called "realistic" games like Rainbow 6 are wildly unrealistic when you get down to it. So who cares? If it's fun and balanced, that's all I care about. If they can do that AND make it look cool, all the better.

[Chastan]

Very good point! We play games to have fun... real life is realistic... it isn't always fun... I think you know what I'm saying