Stop it.(Response To Artifex)

[icefox98]

Stop trying to glorify yourself. "retirement" from a video game? Hrm... I thought your articles on your site were decent, and were enjoyable to read. But now "retirement?" arrrgh. No need to say that. Not like your the Michael Jordan of JK2. Hehe.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

Though he does make it seem a little over-the-top, he does make some good points.

[icefox98]

In the early days of jk2, maybe. But then he started acting like he was the messiah, jesus,god,allah...of jedi outcast. I mean...to take a game that seroiusly....well, I guess only he can answer that. If he knows so much about how games work and how to win at them, and hes acting all unsatisfied with jk2, I have an idea. GO DESIGN JK3. Hell, even a jk2 mod. Its sure a lot easier to bitch about something than to put in years of effort to design it.

[Cedrin]

I highly doubt he was that good with version 1.02. You read his guide and it quotes, I **** you not:

 

"Strong Stance -- All the best players I've met have used this stance. This should be renamed to, "Experienced Stance" or "Thoughtful Stance" because it is the only stance that allows you to choose a swing and move in the direction of your choice. The range is fantastic; as is the damage."

 

Yeah, use all red you n00b.

[DannyJAllTheWay]

I don't like it when people only use heavy. That's all that I will say

[Vestril]

Yeah, use all red you n00b.

 

Ermm...given his rather impressive record, and insights into the game, I think n00b would be a term that basically doesn't apply to Artifex.

 

Apparently his style of play was to pick the most effective, and do it again and again and again. This is obviously an intelligent way to win, but it strikes me as rather boring. Apparently I am right, since he's gotten bored and is quitting. I doubt he'll be missed in the servers...

[Nathan Wind]

hey, i used primarily red in 1.02, and i had the best, most exciting fights with the best opponents in that stance. i wont say that i was limited to only the red stance, but it was definately the stance i preferred in matches with good opponents.

[Lime-Light]

Its pretty funny he has the belief anyone cares about him leaving. On top of that, he'll be back anyway.

[Cedrin]

He likes that some people think him as an idol. Hes just a glory seeker.

[Vestril]

Originally posted by Nathan Wind

hey, i used primarily red in 1.02, and i had the best, most exciting fights with the best opponents in that stance. i wont say that i was limited to only the red stance, but it was definately the stance i preferred in matches with good opponents.

 

I wasn't trying to say red stance is boring, just that move spamming is, if that was directed at me . Apparently real, competitive play in JK2 is boring--Artifex has basically outlined it as such, and he is the only self-proclaimed tournement winner I've come across.

 

To the others--I'm sure you're right to an extent, but none of that suggests that he's an unskilled player, and none of it limits his scope of understanding of this game. I personally pity him, since he can't have fun with this game and I can, and he put so much effort into it and all I ever did was have fun.

[Lord Sokar]

I can see where he is coming from about red stance, it is a little on the boring side, but nothing can match the fact that even a small blow will cost you upwards to 100hp (keep shields handy).

 

The best players or switch hitters, or use different styles. Nothing will throw off a opponent in combat like popping them once with a good heavy stance hit, sliding behind them while clicking to yellow stance, and finishing them at close distance.

 

You gotta love it. Of course, that was on 1.02. Now they're just as likely to block you from behind while attacking someone in front of them.

 

Rejoice nOObs! This patch is for you!

[Koenig]

I'm with Artifex, prehaps the quiting idea is a little extreme, but the armies of players that do the following:-

 

1)Run Round Backstabbing(Haven't thankfully seen this)

 

2)Kickers(Yup one of my mates even does it, and It annoys me)

 

3)Pushes+Slash Combo people(these are the ones you see the most, they push you to the ground, and stab you, these really get up my nose)

 

4)The Ones that ignore the Icon above your head that say "You are typing".

 

5)The clans that try to take over other peoples servers, we had a load who vote kicked us all when we joined our own server.

 

man it annoys me

[Jason036]

I'm gonna have to agree with this thread. I don't know who this guy is, nor do I care. It was nice of him to post his strategy guides and they are quite useful, but honestly, making a big deal about leaving a video game is quite stupid. I'm guessing this guys Artifex has no other life besides video games and his only friends are people on the forum. Yes, I'm only speculationg, but honestly this is just a video game. Maybe this guy should try fishing or something.

 

The thing that gets me is this guys a big video gamer and yet knows nothing about how games work. Everyone knows there will be a new patch coming out sooner or later and that will change the game again. To me, part of the fun is adapting to the new patches style. It keeps me interested in the game. Take Counter-Strike for example, I have been playing the game since it came out and I still play it because the patches change the game play and keep me interested. I was an extremely good player in CS 1.3 and it just got boring going into pubs that had no competition. CS 1.4 comes along and now I'm back down to everyone's level and it takes me quite awhile to get as good as I was in 1.3.

 

My point is that I think patches are always good for a game and if you don't like a certain patch, just be patient, another is always soon to follow. Another point, quit talking about this guy, your just making his so called "retirement" more glorified. Though I guess I'm doing it too by even posting this. LoL.

 

Happy gaming and remember, it's just a video game, and yes, I know I'm saying stuff everyone else has already said, but what are forums for right, hehe.

 

Jason

[Orangina_Rouge]

Originally posted by Jason036

The thing that gets me is this guys a big video gamer and yet knows nothing about how games work. Everyone knows there will be a new patch coming out sooner or later and that will change the game again.

 

Are u SURE of this ?? Can u swear it on your life ???

Coz obviously that s u who dunno a thing about Gaming industry

 

Raven made the game ...they get paid for it

Developping a patch will get them 0 $ ......if fact it will COST them money since it involves time and for pro devs time is a valuable thing

The only thing they can get for doing a patch is get a Rep of supporting their games in the long term ....But they already got a rep for not doing it with their previous games

 

So guess what now since we don t have a word from them since a long time ?? ......yeah we re stuck with crappy 1.03, and that s why Artifex leaves

[C'jais]

I think i'm going to add even more fuel to the flame by stating this:

 

Pro 1.02 players are glorifying the unpatched game.

 

I simply think that because they are now down to everyone's level or because the red stance is now completely useless (which it isn't really) or some other little thing they don't agree with, they bitch, whine and blame the n00bs and what have you. My idea is that a lot of people are simply following the most vocal people and agreeing that 1.02 was perfect. Not everything in the old version was perfect, far from it. Raven fixed something, and they're gonna try to fix the rest.

 

As some wise fellow once said on this board:

 

What if 1.03 was the unpatched game, and 1.02 came and "patched" it? Everyone would cry about the fundamental changes in the game and so on.

 

I'm contradicting myself here, but please try not to glorify the old days (btw, the game has pretty much just got out) and stop convincing other people to join the "pro 1.02 cause", in an effort to convince raven. They will patch the game again, so calm down.

[Orangina_Rouge]

Originally posted by cjais

I think i'm going to add even more fuel to the flame by stating this:

 

Pro 1.02 players are glorifying the unpatched game.

 

I simply think that because they are now down to everyone's level or because the red stance is now completely useless (which it isn't really) or some other little thing they don't agree with, they bitch, whine and blame the n00bs and what have you. My idea is that a lot of people are simply following the most vocal people and agreeing that 1.02 was perfect. Not everything in the old version was perfect, far from it. Raven fixed something, and they're gonna try to fix the rest.

 

 

WRONG

We ( myself including ) glorify the 1.02 game cause it is not BORING

Winning in 1.03 recquire to use the same tactics over an over

It doesn t have the diversity 1.02 had....in short it S BORING

 

So the problem with us is not that we re not capable to adapt to 1.03 ...we already did and it s why we find 1.02 better cause winning was FUN there

[Spider AL]

I agree with Orangina wholeheartedly. In 1.02 all the weapons and force powers were extremely useful and well balanced. Now, if you have ANY sense at all you use Absorb, the flechette, pull and backswing. When fighting a serious opponent there is no incentive to vary your tactics as whoever uses those four most effectively, wins. It's that simple. Some of us try not to use them in our games, and yes, it's less boring... but as soon as a serious threat appears in the form of a halfway decent player, then you either put up or die. Again, it's that simple.

 

I personally pity him, since he can't have fun with this game and I can, and he put so much effort into it and all I ever did was have fun.

 

And competitive players may pity you my friend, for you have never known the sweet taste of a victory steeped in training, expertise and hard work, and seasoned with the savoury tang of nerve-wracking heart-pounding combat for a prize. That's what competitive play is all about, and there's no sweeter taste, I assure you.

 

I won the Jolt FF sabres championship a couple of weeks back. I tried to vary my tactics all the way through the tournament, but I was merely lucky I didn't fight someone who might have forced me into using nothing but pull/backswing. I could have made every kill using that tactic, and it would have been cheap, tedious and frankly rubbish. Of course in other tournaments, people WILL try to pull/backswing every time. That's why competitive play will be boring, and that's probably why Artifex is quitting.

 

I'm currently lobbying for pull to be disabled in Force tournaments and in Sabres only FFA and duel servers, and I've met with some success. So that's why I'm not quitting. Pull's the cause of a lot of boredom, and I think that sabres only games will be a better place without it.

 

Also Etz and I have been discussing the possibility of a mod that removes pull's knockdown effect. That would equally stop the boredom of the tactics.

[Jason036]

I have the answer to all of this, and it's been said before.

 

If you do not like the game, then quit playing it. No one is forcing you to play. Just quit playing, see, that easy. Now you don't have to bitch and complain because now you have nothing to complain about.

 

Again, if you don't like the game, quit playing it.

 

By the way, in response to me not knowing anything about gaming. I do some editorial work for Gamespot, now Gamespot Complete. So that should clear that up.

 

 

Jason

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Also Etz and I have been discussing the possibility of a mod that removes pull's knockdown effect. That would equally stop the boredom of the tactics.

 

Very good idea. I've never liked the knockdown idea of pull, it doesn't make any sense to me at all.

 

Jason, as much as i agree with you, you have to let people post and "whine" in the forums, it's a way of airing your opinions on things and solve people's problems. I do, however, have a problem with people who turn hostile and ruin the fun for other people here.

[Nathan Wind]

jason, thats whats happening. thats the point of the post.

 

you know, the worst part is pull, dfa, heal, a visible un-uberfied absorb all had a major role in creating a deep balanced game.

 

pull was important. it levled the playing field for saberists and gunners. even the knockdown was important.

 

but i guess in this new unbalanced version, measures need to be taken to again balance the game. (i oh so hate to even think this)

 

thats, frankly, a great idea spider

[Havoc Stryphe]

Artifex and others are claiming that this new patch 1.03 takes away from the competitive players and ruins the game for them. I ask you, this is a computer GAME right, not an Olympic sport?

 

Webster's Defines Game as:

 

game (gâm), -n 1.an amusement or pastime 2. the apparatus employed in playing any of certain games 3. a contest for amusement in the form of a trial of chance, skill, or endurance, according to set rules 4. a single contest at play, or a definite portion of play 5. the number of points required to win a game 6. a particular manner or style of playing a game 7. a proceeding carried on like a game 8. a trick; strategy 9. fun; sport of any kind 10. wild animals, including birds and fishes, such as are hunted or taken for food or profit

 

etc... the rest of the definitions have to do with the wild animal and hunting themes

 

The ongoing theme here is fun and/or amusement. You purchased a game just as everyone else here did. By definition, we expect to have fun with this game. Instead you would rather define your existence with the statistics you acquire playing this game. You have lost site of what it is this product was designed for... fun.

 

If you believe that it is only fun to acquire points/frags/wins, then you will lead a most disappointing lifetime. You can't always win, and if you base your happiness off winning, then you will find yourself amongst some serious bouts of depression within your lifetime. You do realize you could still win, with every aspect of this game nerfed, but it would take a little (or a lot) longer? That is unacceptable to you. You must acquire points/frags/wins as fast as possible and accumulate enough to keep your "cyber status" of uber-coolness. Why is this? Is it because your reality is out of your control and not as you'd like it, so you find something that you CAN control and slowly base your happiness on that reality, and if someone came along and changed things to where your amount of control waivers or even diminishes you become indignant and/or aggressive to the point of elitism?

 

We as a gaming community want to have fun, of course this is why Raven & Lucasarts released Jedi Knight II: Jedi Outcast as just that: a game. Perhaps if it was released as a Job, career, utility, weapon, tool etc. you could justify the amount of complaining and vocalized bashing you have spewn forth, and rightly so. Those devices are meant for more serious and exact applications. However, games are meant for fun. Sometime I wonder if you guys can even say that word without twitching and/or falling to the floor convulsing madly.

 

I, for one and as many others have mentioned, can have fun when being struck down by a player in all their ass-fighting glory. I can get a kick out the many ways I've died. I have fun learning from my mistakes and those of others. But I sense that you base your existence on your ability to amass large scores, maybe even your self worth, therefore stripping the game of it's inherent "fun factor". It becomes nothing more than war waged on each other. The kind of war that to the winners goes the spoils of status. It becomes a mental drain, an obsession to prove yourself to those noobies who unknowingly wander into your self-proclaimed crusade and to continue your dominance over those you've sent packing before.

 

Why else would you need "instant" kills, If not to acquire large amounts of score as quickly as possible? You simply ignore the fun aspect and begin your crusade to control that which has replaced the reality which you can't control, all the while ruining it for those who have come to experience fun with a game that delivers 3D immersion and a Star Wars atmosphere.

 

Shame on you for ruining the community, and discouraging noobies from darkening our doorway! Shame on you for attempting to single-handedly muddy a software developing company’s good name by rash and judgmental verbal bashings! But most of all, I feel sorry for you that you would rob yourself of the experience of true fun. It is you who will go through life strangely incomplete and lacking true happiness. You will try to live your happiness through the lives of your children, all the while pushing them into the vicious cycle you yourself could not escape. If you can get this worked up over a game, just imagine what how you'll deal with the real dilemmas you'll undoubtedly face sometime in your lives: Jobs/careers, layoffs, breakups, deaths, mortgages etc...

 

You should evaluate your lives and your definition therein of "fun", because that's what this game is all about, whether it be version 1.03 or 9.64, so sit back relax and enjoy the simple things in life, like getting lucky and accidentally killing an opponent online with a move you never intended to make in the first place!

[Hateplow]

THREAD CLOSED

 

 

 

...damn, im not a admin!

[C'jais]

That was a rant Havoc! And you can't deny it!

 

But it was a good rant, and a much needed one...

 

*Me steps in front of Havoc*:

 

-"And that goes double for the rest of you!"

 

I agree, some people take a game too seriously, but that's just geek culture for those not-in-the-know.

 

Meditate on this, I will....

[Cal-Gon Gin]

Blah blah the JKII 1.03 patch has ruined the pure joy and skill of 1.02...blah blah...the Quake 3 1.27 patch has ruined the pure joy and skill that was 1.17...blah blah...QuakeWorld has ruined the pure joy and skill of NetQuake...blah blah

 

Its always the same thing, game in and game out. Patches come out for reasons, and sometimes gameplay gets changed, purposely or no. Usually purposely as exploits are developed (*cough*CS*cough*). Usually the game is improved in some way (IMO--the 1.29-1.31 patches of Q3 added air control, and don't DARE tell me that QW wasn't a hell of an improvement in netcode over NQ). And gamers (especially the so called "pro" gamers who are still trying to make Quake 3 into QW via CPM. Oh, wait, *I* play CPM...) continue to prove themselves among the most conservative of folks on the planet. Its like once they learn a move they want the game to stay the same because they fear not being able to regain their "l33t" postition bercause they have to *gasp* learn something new. They might not be able to after all Don't believe me? Join a QW RA server and suggest a map other than dm3...

 

To paraphrase Yoda: "Play. Or play not. There is no whine."

[-thefly-]

....but won't somebody please think of the children!!"