Republic in = Rebels out?

[J-5]

Is the Republic a newer, better version of the Rebels? Both civs have the exact same specialties- air, troops, and jedi. Now, the Republic clearly edges out the Rebels in troops and jedi, so the only case that can be made for the Rebels is in air units. But the Republic has an invisible starfighter on its side! So I repeat, is the Republic a newer, better version of the Rebels?

 

P.S. why do Republic jedi have sith pictures under them?

[polaris_crd]

I don't think so. The Rebels still have better air. I beat a Republic guy last night. I had superior air forces, mechs, hvy wepongs, supporting about 8 air cruisers. Yeah, he could produce a lot of troops but my air cruisers toasted about 20 at a time. Rebels and Naboo are all starting to catch on. If you can protect your air cruisers your opponent watches helplessly as he gets chewed apart.

 

Rebels troopers are still better quality though. Republic just produces troopers faster. The key is to produce a ton of strike mechs to counter the mass troops.

[D'Blee]

The Rebels have better air by virtue of the fact that that they have one more air unit. Upgrades for fighters and bombers are the same on both sides (note that the Republic does get Armoured Platework, despite what the foldout says), and the Republic forces get better air cruisers.

 

Polaris, it's good that you won last night, but your building a better air force doesn't make the Rebel air intrinsically better. The A-wing has been very widely maligned for its massive fragility and all-round uselessness; the Jedi Starfighter has been similarly dissed for its narrow application as a dedicated reconaissance unit. Really, Rebel Air is only better because of the speeder... which is an extremely useful unit to have around.

 

I think the ground is where the Rebels suffer, though the difference is somewhat marginal. They lack a heavy strike mech, but gain an assault mech. This leaves you balancing faster-firing troopers against more resilient ones. Of course, the Republic can back their flimsier troopers with much beefier medics. And Republic Jedi are better, as well, plus their Temples cost less. Then you need to weigh faster Holocron nova production and Nursery food of the Republic against the Rebels' better farming.

 

In a lot of ways, Republic does play like a slightly upgraded version of the Alliance, which I think is what probably accounts for the latters's drop in popularity. I do still like those Air Speeders a lot though...

 

P.S. It is all but impossible to protect Air Cruisers against a determined opponent, especially one with AA retrofit. Their attack against ground units, apart from troopers, is not as damaging as many seem to think, and that loooong reload time is a total killer. You need to be very careful about supporting them with ground units because they have no minimum range at all and can easily be tricked into firing on your support army. They are not superweapons by any means.

[J-5]

I still think that the Republic's troopers are better. When you can send in twice as many troopers into battle as the Rebels, I think it is you that has the upper hand. All the rebels' troopers get is a hp boost, but the Republic gets hvy strike mechs to counter that. The Rebels have to get reg. strike mechs to counter twice as many Republic troopers.. and winner is... the Republic (in terms of strike mechs and troopers only)!

 

As for the A-wing, even with shields, its only has as much hp as a tie fighter without shields. So this does limit its viability, but it has longer range than a fighter, great speed and fire rate, and absolutely owns workers and troopers. It not totally useless. The killer is you need to research just to make it available... I don't know about everyone else, but I tend to overlook it alot.

 

If only the Jedi starfighter had a better fire rate... then it would be a good offensive unit. I mean, it cost so much for a fighter... its nice that it can become invisible but I think it should be able to convert units (with no range, like masters converting buildings), and only units, not buildings.

 

But you guys are right, the Rebels do still own the skies.

 

P.S. between the rebel farming bonus (almost non-existent) and Republic animal nursery tech, the Republic wins again

[duder]

Surely the Naboo own the skies with their upgraded engines, faster build rate, and faster nova mining.

 

I don't think the Rebels are a worth while civ anymore. Republics troops are better once they get the cloning tech and sight beyond sight tech. There is nothing between the air as I havn't found a use for the weak a-wings yet, and the Republic receive all the upgrades the Rebels do.

[Kryllith]

What I want to know is why every civ that has shielded air also seems to have armoured air (I can't remember if Wookie air gets armour.) Seems to me that if they want to spread the difference in air bit that they should use these two techs better. Maybe they could get armoured air to some of the lesser air powers. For example, the TF could get armoured air, which would give them an air advantage over the gungans (the way it should be). Confed might get armoured air too. Some ships might have shields but not armour while the best air civs would have both. If they want to break it down further, they could give certain civs light armour (+2 instead of +4) which would allow:

no protection, light armour, armour, shields, light armour w/ shields, and armour w/ shields...

 

Kryllith

[DarthMuffin]

I don't think the Rebels are a worth while civ anymore. Republics troops are better once they get the cloning tech and sight beyond sight tech

 

I completly agree.

[D'Blee]

Hmmm.... don't forget the Air Speeder. The Rebels have an ability unmatched by any in the game to get a carefully tailored troubleshooting force to any hotspot and deal with it... unless the bad guys bring along AA mobiles. Bring on the Tauntauns.

 

Seriously, the Air Speeder is very useful. No other air unit will seriously dent a large group of attacking mechs; the bomber is too slow, and fighters don't do enough damage to get through the armour.

 

Who knows, perhaps the A-Wing will one day show its worth and I will be eating my words along with all the others as the terror of the A-wing rush sweeps the Zone. Or possibly not.

 

Rebels get heavy assault mechs, too. Though not Technicians or Advanced Redesign. Don't see all that many assault mechs around either, to be honest. Oh well.

 

The Republic does have a considerable economic advantage, which makes them very attractive. And I must confess that I've not felt all that tempted by the Rebels since I got the Xpack. However, the difference isn't all that glaring, I don't think. Remember that the Republic does have a certain novelty value right now as well. People might start returning to the Alliance in a few weeks once they get bored of hearing that good guys wear white...

[duder]

Reasons to pick the Republic over Rebels;

 

1.Holocron bonus is a great help. If you manage to get three or four of them then your nova hoardes race up.

 

2.The Republic get the very important mech destroyer upgrade, whilst the Rebels get the assault mech upgrade. Assault mechs are rarely used in online gaming due to the cost.

 

3.Republic troops are a more potent force.

 

4.Nurseries receive more upgrades.

 

5.Rebels eco bonus on farming is hardly noticable.

 

6.Apart from the air speeder (not the crappy a-wing) they both have the same strength air force.

 

7.Republic Jedi are cheaper and get more upgrades.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

I hate the Republic. Hail to Count Dooku!

[J-5]

Originally posted by duder

 

2.The Republic get the very important mech destroyer upgrade, whilst the Rebels get the assault mech upgrade. Assault mechs are rarely used in online gaming due to the cost.

 

5.Rebels eco bonus on farming is hardly noticable.

 

6.Apart from the air speeder (not the crappy a-wing) they both have the same strength air force.

 

7.Republic Jedi are cheaper and get more upgrades. [/b]

 

My thoughts

 

2. I'm pretty sure that the Rebels do get hvy mech destroyers, but I know that they don't get hvy strikes.

 

5. I absolutely agree, only +1 carrying capacity on farm... thats weak.

 

6. Now that what I thought

 

7.Republic Jedi aren't cheaper, though it would seem that way thanks to the holocron bonus. Their Jedi temples are cheaper.

 

Also, the Rebels' fortress bonus isn't that great.

[duder]

Ooopps the temple is cheaper not the Jedi. But they do recieve more upgrades.

 

It should have been the strike mech that I mentioned not the destroyer.

[Kryllith]

A fair amount of people dis the A-wings, but I have found them to be quite effective as AA troop destroyers (in addition to regular troops and workers). Their heightened speed and extended range helps them evade missiles better, which is important when guided missiles come into play (this also plays a factor in using them against fighters). In addition, their extend range gives them a bit more play for slaughtering workers outside the range of missile turrents.

 

Kryllith

[Paragon_Leon]

Rebel bonuses come in area's where they don't impact gameplay.

Think about it.

For instance; fortress bonus; how many fortresses does one make in a 1 on 1 game online ? Hmmm ?

I can guarantee you it's 3 or 4 max.

So that can't really make the difference, as can the other bonusses.

 

Now BUILDING SPEED and such things, THOSE are the true advantages. Alas, the Republic has the edge.

[gonk-raider]

to the 2 guy who posted..sounded like you played a bad person: )thats why you got away wit being able to build so much in the first place... key have your enemy on the run

[Acidfreeze]

Originally posted by D'Blee

People might start returning to the Alliance in a few weeks once they get bored of hearing that good guys wear white...

 

I don't know, hearing "For the Rebellion!" every 5 seconds is annoying as well...

[J-5]

Originally posted by D'Blee

The Republic does have a considerable economic advantage, which makes them very attractive. And I must confess that I've not felt all that tempted by the Rebels since I got the Xpack. However, the difference isn't all that glaring, I don't think. Remember that the Republic does have a certain novelty value right now as well. People might start returning to the Alliance in a few weeks once they get bored of hearing that good guys wear white...

 

I think that there is an attraction to the Republic, but it is more than just novelty. They are one of the best (if not the best) civ in the game.

 

Now for the Rebels, can anyone tell me the what the attraction for them is now? I fail to see any reason to choose them rather than the Republic. I think that the air speeder and hvy mech destroyer of the Rebels is a bit redundant (they should have had hvy strikes instead). Besides the cosmetic difference, why pick the rebels?

[Crazy_dog no.3]

OK, I admit it, the Republic rules the Rebels. But the Rebels still have an airspeeder, which kicks ass.

[D'Blee]

only +1 carrying capacity on farm... thats weak.

 

Ah, yes, but remember that post X-pack the Rebels even get the team bonus (even if you're playing alone) of increased farm food. Which can make a difference, especially on a low food map. This is the Rebels' important economic advantage.

 

Rebels, Naboo, and Republic all get cheaper Jedi, I believe - compared with the Empuire. The Republic also get cheaper temples. Naboo and Republic both get increased Holocron trickle.

 

6.Apart from the air speeder (not the crappy a-wing) they both have the same strength air force.

 

This is like saying "apart from repeaters and Dark Troopers and a couple of the upgrades, Empire and Naboo have the same strength infantry." The Airspeeder is extremely useful, as others have said. Still trying to decide about the A-wing. The Jedi Starfighter, on the other hand, has incredibly limited usefulness, much of which evaporates if your opponent plops sentry towers around the map - as I tend to. Were it not for that horrid delay before firing, they might have more of a use in hit and fade, but the time they spend uncloaked while the pilot searches for the trigger or whatever he's doing is frequently a killer. Kryllith, interesting post about the A-wing. I'll try and give it some more time...

 

In any case, Rebel air is markedly superior to Republic - in a one-on-one dogfight their primary air-to-air units, Advanced Fighters, would of course go to a draw, but in the more general field the Rebels come off better.

 

Completely off-topic and apropos of nothing, but is anyone else upset that the mighty Republic Gunship is reduced to the status of a fast fighter? Look at the guns on that puppy! They should all fire five times each and drop a bunch of little Yodas on the enemy and then do cool stuff and have ball turrets and strafe stuff and... anyway.

[Darth Windu]

I completely agree, which is why im going to create a topic on the subject.

[Sithmaster_821]

They both good civs (i like the rebels better though)

 

Rebels own the air with their airspeeder and a-wing(long range quick and deadly makes it good at killing anything that cant fire back)

 

The jedi starfighter takes out air cruisers really quickly (almost 4x as fast as fighters) but both awings and airspeeders kill them at almost that rate (due to the slow fire of starfighters)

 

Republic have by far the better jedi, easily surpassing both the naboo and the rebels

 

In troops, its a matter of opinion. Republic pumps them out faster but not at cheaper cost. There are some people on MFO that say that this upgrade is pointless because it only works for laser troops and can be easily replicated by building another troop center. The rebels on the other hand have an ok bonus to their troops hps and it affects all troops and they can easily beat republic troops at even #'s

 

They both have equally bad mechs and ships and the republic has slightly better heavies (rebels dont get heavy engineers)

 

Their both good but i thought that the rebels were being disenfranchised on this thread.

[Natopo]

Jedi Starfighters are excellent. Homing projectiles, Jedi abilities, all in one. Clone Troops are easy to make in numbers because of the upgrade. For every Rebel Trooper created, 2 or 3 Clone Troops can be made. This gives them a huge advantage but one sole weakness is what they have: Air Cruisers. Those can wipe troops out in 1 blast. The A-Wing is a good fighter because of it's speed, but the Jedi Starfighter can kill it when it's cloaked. The Republic Jedi are the best, no arguement there. As for mechs, the Republic gains another advantage because of the fact that they can build troops by the millions as well as wipe out other troops with ease. The Rebels have good air-ground thing, but I still prefer the Jedi Starfighter.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Fair enough.

[J-5]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

In troops, its a matter of opinion. Republic pumps them out faster but not at cheaper cost. There are some people on MFO that say that this upgrade is pointless because it only works for laser troops and can be easily replicated by building another troop center. The rebels on the other hand have an ok bonus to their troops hps and it affects all troops and they can easily beat republic troops at even #'s

 

They both have equally bad mechs and ships and the republic has slightly better heavies (rebels dont get heavy engineers)

 

Their both good but i thought that the rebels were being disenfranchised on this thread.

 

The Republic upgrade, Kaminoan Cloners, makes republic troopers come out 50% faster (Oh and by the way, the upgrade also improves their rate of fire to help tear through the extra hp of rebel troopers). So if the Rebels want to produce as many troopers as the Republic, they will need twice as many troop centers to do so. So maybe the Rebels' troops win at even #'s, but even #'s is difficult to achieve.

 

And the Republic wins the mech battle too. The Rebels don't get the "hvy plating" upgrade (the last defensive mech upgrade) but the republic does. Personally, I prefer hvy strikes and destroyers to hvy destroyers and assaults, but thats just me (or is it?).

 

Don't get me wrong, I do like the Rebels (used to be my fav along with the Wooks), but I'm just dishing out the cold, hard facts -- the Republic has all but overshadowed the Rebels... I think that's ashame too .

 

P.S. don't you need a team to have a team bonus??

[D'Blee]

J-5; no, you don't need a team to have a team bonus, even though it clearly states in the manual that this is in fact the case. Probably the easiest way to test this is to play as Gungans in a post-T4 game and look at the price of a shield generator/shipyard. Which I did - and they benefit from their cheaper generator even in a 1 on 1.

 

Natopo, I'm sorry, but "excellent" is rather a strong term to use re: the Jedi Starfighter. They benefit from two Jedi abilities - Sight Beyond Sight and Mind Trick. This does make them effective spying units to a degree - although not against an opponent who likes his/her sentry towers.

 

The homing torpedo seems largely cosmetic; aircraft accuracy is rarely a problem because of their speed. And the Starfighter loses badly to other fighters because to attack it must decloak, wait, and fire - then wait again. That initial wait time is what scuppers it. Send five Starfighters against five X-wings, and one, perhaps two of the Jedi craft will be smoke before any of them can fire. Plus they cost more than twice as much nova as fighters. They really are not combat craft. They can be good for reconaissance - though once you add Mind Trick and Sight Beyond Sight research costs to the cost of the fighter, they are rather expensive. Still, with the amazing Republic Jedi, you are likely to want these in any case.

 

Republic lacks the heavy assault mech, while the Rebels don't get heavy strikes. Heavy MDs are arguably more important than either, though, and both civs get them, although the Rebels' lack of the final armour upgrade hurts to a degree.

 

Does anyone have the numbers for the increase in fire rate granted by Kaminoan Cloners? It's probably an important factor for comparison, but not detailed in the map or the tech trees.