This is Sad (All Please Read)

[Jevesus]

Originally posted by leelink

let me point out something about a saber lock script on a Full Force server. If you are using a script you will get beat everytime by a skilled player. Here's what will happen.

 

Opponent A - uses the script to use attack quickly and use push to get the max out of his saberlock.

Opponent B - Uses his skill to "listen" to someone pushing during saberlock and push just enough to keep himself up.

saber lock is done and neither opponent has won

(at least not yet)

 

opponent A - is now out of force power, he used it all by scripting.

opponent B - pulls after the saber lock and backstabs opponent A because he cannot block without force power.

 

person not using a script wins.

 

most people only see the saber lock. You must think about the game as a whole and not just see the moment you are locked in.

 

what leads you to believe this is the one and only type of sabrelock script that can be conceived?

somehow, people assume that a "scripter" is a person with a closed mind and one, and only one, script to his or hers disposal.

 

please dont everybody get me wrong tho, i'm no advocate of using scripts that give an individual an "unfair advantage", whatever that may be. however, i refute the claims that "scripts" and "scripters" can be generalized to such a ridiculous degree that one-size-fits-all counter attacks can be defined. they can not.

[Twins of Doom]

if i was understanding it right, this is one ocassion where a scripter is gunna lose

 

 

 

and all people have a flaw of getting in a certain mindset that blocks out different ideas, having a script to do a major move will only help to block out more creative ideas

[zenroth]

Hmm im not really decided on this one, scripts are kinda stratagy related. Well they can be that is.

 

I would say however scripting should not be allowed under multiplayer stratagy center as they in reality are just lists of commands.

 

Now the stratagies that thoose scripts automate are what we should be talking about.

 

So I guess I agree with you Twin

[Twins of Doom]

I think that a new forum should be made for those who agree with me, I'll start a petition for a new area...so that we can keep these scripters out of here. I'll make a new thread in a bit:)

[Blank1234]

who seriously cares?

 

Does it really bother you that much that you have to scroll the screen down ALITTLE further than normal?

 

And it's not like scripting doesn't fall under multiplayer strategy catergory. I'd consider it as much a part of someones strategy as their keyboard config, their mouse sensitivity, etc. Not saying everyone must script, but for those that do, their application (for optimizing scripts) definetly fall under multiplayer strategy.

 

Just for the record, I'm completely with Jevesus on this one.

 

"and all people have a flaw of getting in a certain mindset that blocks out different ideas, having a script to do a major move will only help to block out more creative ideas"

 

oooo the irony -_-

 

Blank

[Jevesus]

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

if i was understanding it right, this is one ocassion where a scripter is gunna lose

 

uhu, but that would be a misunderstanding. because this is just one perticular kind of sabrelock script. like ive said numerous times before: you cannot define counters against "scripts" because a script can be anything, anything at all.

and, personally i _could_ make a script to win any and all sabrelock fights nomatter what you do, unless maybe you used the same kind of script. but what would be the fun in that?

 

and all people have a flaw of getting in a certain mindset that blocks out different ideas, having a script to do a major move will only help to block out more creative ideas

 

to make scripts does not imply to have a "certain mindset that blocks out different ideas". actually, it is more likely that a scripter that writes his or hers own scripts is likely to be a person of very creative and experimental nature to be able to conceive different scripts.

 

you are basically just talking bull****. basically.

[<>Phant0m<>]

Originally posted by Jevesus

and, personally i _could_ make a script to win any and all sabrelock fights nomatter what you do, unless maybe you used the same kind of script. but what would be the fun in that?

 

Alot of people dont play for fun they play to win, these are the same kind of peeps that use cheats in other games, they get off on being the best at wotever game by deciving other players into thinking that they are gods in that game.

Also wot u have said is that a Script can be made that will definatly make you have a complete advantage over other players.

 

This is unfortunate...

 

I hope that they lock Attack and movement scripts out of the game somehow, and just leave the speech and weapon select scripts in.

[Twins of Doom]

jeveseus, i hate to burst your bubble but we are all human (at least the last i checked i was)

 

Humans Make Mistakes

Scripts Do Not Make Mistakes, They Will Perform The Task Perfectly

 

this gives the scripter an unfair advantage

 

 

 

 

and why must you come into every topic and flame it, do you enjoy being hated by almost all?

[Blank1234]

"Scripts Do Not Make Mistakes, They Will Perform The Task Perfectly"

 

Not entirely true actually A backstab script still requires a target in front of him (assuming the script flips you 180). There's still a window for the opponent to jump, roll, or just move out of the way so the script won't backstab.

 

A kick script still requires the target to be a certain distance in front of him. The only difference is it'll go off in one button press (just like 1.02) instead of 2 hits of the jump key.

 

I can honestly say, I haven't screwed up a DFA in alot of hours of play. Whereas, a script (I think), hitting certain buttons while it's executing may mess up the scripts timing.

 

You're being really two-faced about the whole thing. In one post, scripters are easy to counter. In another, they get an unfair advantage (implying that they AREN'T easy to counter... what kind of advantage would it be if it made them easier to kill?).

 

Just to back up Jevesus, he's not flaming you... he's correcting you. You are very misinformed and stereotyping people would get me mad too.

 

Blank

[Jevesus]

Thanks Blank, I'm glad I'm not writing this in vain, atleast one person is able to grasp this simple concept.

 

Twins of Doom, these are undisputable facts of the matter:

 

* A single counter attack cannot be defined against "scripts" because a script can be anything, anything at all.

 

* There is plenty of ways to solve an arbitrary problem, thus for instance a sabrelock script can be constructed in several ways and therefore a single counter attack cannot be defined against that, either.

 

* A person does not inherit the inability to think out-of-the-box just because the person in question is proficient in a programming language or, in this case, scripting language.

 

* Much like every other thing that can be used, scripts can also be abused. This _still_ does not mean that users of scripts, or scripters, are inherently evil.

 

And lastly: I do not promote usage of surtain scripts that give the player an unfair advantage. This _still_ does not mean that scripts or scripters are evil by sheer definition as you imply.

[knyte]

Scripting does give an unfair advantage, theres no other way to describe it. They built the saber combat in JKII to have special and strong moves that were executed by a combination of keyboard and mouse movements, they were not ever intended to be executed by hitting one key. If they had intended the combat to be built that way there would be a place in the key assignment menu for "DFA", "BACKSTAB" etc. Last I checked, there werent any options like that. Q3 scripts are a completely different concept, writing a script in Q3 were you turn and fire is totally different than a script which will instantly kill anyone you use it against. Who cares if someone wrote a rocket jump script, rocket jumping was never intended to be a fatal and end-all finishing move.

[Blank1234]

GENERALIZATIONS ARE BAD... not sure if that'll get the point across or not -_-

 

"Scripting does give an unfair advantage, theres no other way to describe it."

 

You would consider me making a script that changes my saber color an unfair advantage? Or a script that changes skins?

 

Let's not forget the all mightly kick script, that presses jump twice in *gasp* ONE BUTTON PRESS. God forbid.

 

 

"They built the saber combat in JKII to have special and strong moves that were executed by a combination of keyboard and mouse movements, they were not ever intended to be executed by hitting one key. If they had intended the combat to be built that way there would be a place in the key assignment menu for "DFA", "BACKSTAB" etc. Last I checked, there werent any options like that. Q3 scripts are a completely different concept, writing a script in Q3 were you turn and fire is totally different than a script which will instantly kill anyone you use it against."

 

This argument is lacking in a series of ways. Having DFA/Backstab scripted doesn't mean you will instantly die... you can still dodge you realize. BTW, you CAN script in Q3 to turn and fire a rocket at a press of a button... that's basically a one hit kill if your armor is low enough, same with a backstab script. Both require a target behind them, and assume the guy behind him will stay there.

 

Are you really going to argue that it takes more skill too press back + attack than have the computer press back + attack at 1 button press? Skill is determined by holding a button down and clicking your mouse once?

 

What about taunting? Since it's not on the assigned key list, it's obviously not intended to be used in multiplayer (unless you lower console, and type in the taunt command). /Sarcasm.

 

"Who cares if someone wrote a rocket jump script, rocket jumping was never intended to be a fatal and end-all finishing move."

 

Oh, so if the move doesn't generate kills it's "okay" to script? What if I use a rocket jump script to capture an opponents flag quicker? Isn't that still an "unfair" advantage to the guy who can't rocket jump 10 out of 10 tries?

 

Blah.........!

 

Blank

[leelink]

Originally posted Twins of doom

"Scripts Do Not Make Mistakes, They Will Perform The Task Perfectly"

 

QUOTE]Originally posted by Blank1234

Not entirely true actually A backstab script still requires a target in front of him (assuming the script flips you 180). There's still a window for the opponent to jump, roll, or just move out of the way so the script won't backstab.[/b]

 

 

Actually Twins statement is right on the money. Your script will not make a mistake. just because the person behind you moved doesnt mean your "script" made a mistake, you as the player have made a mistake by not being in the right position. Your script will do what you tell it to do and perform the command perfectly... now if you have timing mistakes in your script then that is your fault and lack of ability to write a script. Also most people dont use scripts so they can hit the jump button once. there are dozens of scripts that do give a player an unfair advantage against someone not useing a script. take a script like this for instance. it begins by using grip and then adjust your yaw speed to something insane and then makes you spin around faster and more times then you could physically do, and of course you have it timed perfectly in your script to stop just before your done gripping to position the person so the fall right in front of you and then you do a light lunge and saber throw that unblockable.... while you can spin your mouse so fast you cant see, you cant do it with the percision that a script could. The only reason we havent seen more stuff like this is because there aren't many talented scripters that will release a script like this to the public. I could do it, but after releasing the first dfa script to the public I saw what happen. hehe try pusing someone when your spinning a zillion miles a minute.

[Twins of Doom]

Twins of Doom, these are undisputable facts of the matter:

 

* A single counter attack cannot be defined against "scripts" because a script can be anything, anything at all.

never said that there was and that a script couldn't be anything

 

* There is plenty of ways to solve an arbitrary problem, thus for instance a sabrelock script can be constructed in several ways and therefore a single counter attack cannot be defined against that, either.

i never even talked about a saber lock script, what are you talking about, are you referring to leelink or me?

 

* A person does not inherit the inability to think out-of-the-box just because the person in question is proficient in a programming language or, in this case, scripting language.

no **** sherlock, but everybody does make HUMAN ERRORS and may FORGET THINGS and forget to use a certain move when they should have

 

* Much like every other thing that can be used, scripts can also be abused. This _still_ does not mean that users of scripts, or scripters, are inherently evil.

i never said they were inherently evil, i just said that they weren't strategy

 

And lastly: I do not promote usage of surtain scripts that give the player an unfair advantage. This _still_ does not mean that scripts or scripters are evil by sheer definition as you imply.

obvioulsy you should read my posts again if your thinking i'm implying that every script is evil

 

You would consider me making a script that changes my saber color an unfair advantage? Or a script that changes skins?

What about taunting? Since it's not on the assigned key list, it's obviously not intended to be used in multiplayer (unless you lower console, and type in the taunt command). /Sarcasm.

i believe that i have said numerous times that i don't care if people are using scripts for taunts, changing skins, talking etc.....if not let me clarify myself one more time

i'm talking more about saber scripts than gun scripts because let's face it, the saber takes more skill to use than clicking a button to fire a gun

I'M TALKING ABOUT SCRIPTS THAT GIVE AN UNFAIR ADVANTAGE THAT TAKES OUT HUMAN ERROR

did you catch it this time?

 

 

 

leelink-glad somebody is agreeing with me on this one

 

maybe you people should go read the whole thread from the start again, you're missing out on some of the comments made (that or choosing to ignore them)

 

when the game was designed, they meant for saber combat to be something that took practice, if they wanted dfa to be used with one key or saberlocking with one key they'd either include it right off the bat or include an extra manual for how to script

[Admiral Derski]

Originally posted by Blank1234

 

 

This argument is lacking in a series of ways. Having DFA/Backstab scripted doesn't mean you will instantly die... you can still dodge you realize.

Blank

 

Yes but the fact that its a script executing the move makes it perform faster thus making it harder to dodge, Which is an unfair advantage. In the heat of a battle when there are several different things going on around you at once,can make a person mess up the move if done manually, if scripted it will execute everytime because thats what the machine is told to do.

[Jevesus]

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

never said that there was and that a script couldn't be anything

 

 

i never even talked about a saber lock script, what are you talking about, are you referring to leelink or me?

 

I'm just iterating facts.

 

 

no **** sherlock, but everybody does make HUMAN ERRORS and may FORGET THINGS and forget to use a certain move when they should have

 

You previously stated:

"..all people have a flaw of getting in a certain mindset that blocks out different ideas, having a script to do a major move will only help to block out more creative ideas".

So, i repeat: being a scripter is not likely to limit your creativity, its rather the opposite.

 

i never said they were inherently evil, i just said that they weren't strategy

 

You talk of "scripts" and "scripters" as generalized bad phenomenons. They are not.

 

obvioulsy you should read my posts again if your thinking i'm implying that every script is evil

 

no, you should think about what you are implying when you put the words "scripts" or "scripters" in a sentence without further precision, you are judging all and any scripts, of all kinds, in that same sentence.

 

i believe that i have said numerous times that i don't care if people are using scripts for taunts, changing skins, talking etc.....if not let me clarify myself one more time

i'm talking more about saber scripts than gun scripts because let's face it, the saber takes more skill to use than clicking a button to fire a gun

 

sometimes you do, but sometimes you generalize all scripts as bad.

 

 

when the game was designed, they meant for saber combat to be something that took practice, if they wanted dfa to be used with one key or saberlocking with one key they'd either include it right off the bat or include an extra manual for how to script

 

1. this game uses the Quake3 engine, it was definately not designed for sabrecombat.

2. sabre duels in this game is more random than any other game in which two opponents battle it out, such as Tekken, Virtua Fighter, or Battlearena Toshinden. Very poor game design as such.

3. They could have disabled client scripting.

4. Manuals for scripting would be senseless to include, no game engine I've ever heard of comes with one. Who think of shipping a scripting manual with each copy of the game as a cost efficient idea?

 

 

Essentially, I agree with what you are saying, and, I have a feeling you agree with me too. The problem as I see it is that people, and that includes you, tend to generalize and claim that all scripts and all scripters are bad. This is a distortion of the truth, thats what I'm opposing.

[Jevesus]

twins of doom:

i am not saying that they are hard to counter, because scripters are easy to counter, unless they are the freaks that hav a script to make it think that opponent is behind so they can backstab when in front of opponent (that is just plain stupid and cheap)

 

in this quote you claim that "scripters" are easy to counter. as if all scripters used the same scripts. you imply that a counter to "scripters" in general can be defined. one cannot.

 

thus, i repeat: a counter attack cannot be defined against a "scripter", any more than a counter attack can be defined against a "player".

[Twins of Doom]

if you are just trying to point out facts then you should make it more clear because you say

 

Twins of Doom blahblahblah

 

this sounds like you are trying to begin a flame war

 

no, you should think about what you are implying when you put the words "scripts" or "scripters" in a sentence without further precision, you are judging all and any scripts, of all kinds, in that same sentence.

[begin sarcasm]oh i'm so very sorry[/end sarcasm]

 

 

So, i repeat: being a scripter is not likely to limit your creativity, its rather the opposite

please enlighten me but if soembody has a script to do a really big combo with the press of ONE single key and no skill how does this encourage them to use other moves?

 

1. this game uses the Quake3 engine, it was definately not designed for sabrecombat.

maybe not just for saber combat but a HUGE portion of it is saber combat, and you ask anybody who worked on it and they'll say that saber combat is a large portion of the game

if you wanted something with guns only you would have bought something besides a star wars game

 

 

2. sabre duels in this game is more random than any other game in which two opponents battle it out, such as Tekken, Virtua Fighter, or Battlearena Toshinden. Very poor game design as such.

you mean it is completely random when i kill somebody 10 times in a row?

 

4. Manuals for scripting would be senseless to include, no game engine I've ever heard of comes with one. Who think of shipping a scripting manual with each copy of the game as a cost efficient idea?

do you know what sarcasm is, or do they not teach you that

[Jevesus]

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

please enlighten me but if soembody has a script to do a really big combo with the press of ONE single key and no skill how does this encourage them to use other moves?

You make it sound like one can only use one script at the time whereas the usage of scripts does not subtract the number of possibilities, it adds to them.

In short, to create a script is an act of creativity.

 

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

maybe not just for saber combat but a HUGE portion of it is saber combat, and you ask anybody who worked on it and they'll say that saber combat is a large portion of the game

if you wanted something with guns only you would have bought something besides a star wars game

 

get this: this game uses the Quake3 engine. Id Software did not have sabre combat in mind when they designed that engine.

Furthermore, i really dont give a crap about whatever whoever was thinking when the game JK2 was created, but what is interesting is the end product. And sabre dueling, as a one-on-one game, is very badly designed compared to other similar games (like Tekken, Battelarena Toshinden).

 

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

you mean it is completely random when i kill somebody 10 times in a row?

 

do you really dont understand what i mean or are you so unfamiliar with this game that you have not yet realized how random it can be? just swinging your sabre around madly without any sense of control can often (not always, just often) result in a lucky hit, or kill. try that in tekken or virtua fighter, youll be hacked meat, no doubt. the makers of this game simply arent very experienced in making one-on-one games.

 

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

do you know what sarcasm is, or do they not teach you that

 

you preach double stories my feeble friend. first you say that scripting is an unfair advantage, and then you say scripters are easy to counter, which is quite the opposite.

learn how to express yourself properly. or make up your dense mind.

[Twins of Doom]

ooh, somebody *cough cough Jeveseus cough cough* wants to start a flame war i see

 

You make it sound like one can only use one script at the time whereas the usage of scripts does not subtract the number of possibilities, it adds to them.

In short, to create a script is an act of creativity.

again i say, if you had a script to do a huge combo that normally takes skill would you use something else if you kept on winning with it

 

i think not

 

 

besides, this topic is about people asking for scripts, not people creating them

 

 

do you really dont understand what i mean or are you so unfamiliar with this game that you have not yet realized how random it can be? just swinging your sabre around madly without any sense of control can often (not always, just often) result in a lucky hit, or kill. try that in tekken or virtua fighter, youll be hacked meat, no doubt. the makers of this game simply arent very experienced in making one-on-one games.

whats so horrible about somebody getting a lucky kill?

besides, a skilled player would work their ass

just avoid their random attacks and hit em with your own while they randomly click hoping to kill you

 

you preach double stories my feeble friend. first you say that scripting is an unfair advantage, and then you say scripters are easy to counter, which is quite the opposite.

learn how to express yourself properly. or make up your dense mind.

you said yourself that their is more than one type of script

besides, what does that have to do with sarcasm, do you just like quoting stuff?

 

there is more than one type of script, so they do different things

[intoxictd]

Scripting sux.

Scripting moves is cheating.

 

Here's why:

 

A scripter is not making any attempt to learn the game or play it as it was intended.

 

A scripter has an advantage over those whom actually play the game properly. Developing a combo to defeat someone takes time and practice and good timing. Those whom lack skill and patience must BIND it in order to succeed. LEARN THE GAME.

 

A script IS a cheat. Why? No work involved in actually killing someone. Those that need to script a move are not attempting to play the game legitamitely(the way it was designed to be played) This deserves no respect, and was not intended to be.

 

Sorry, but if someone is to young or not talented enough to play a game....they should learn how to play it or not play it at all. Scripting only teaches these people that cheating is fine, and they will do so for every game they buy. If they need help playing, ask someone to teach them, and then they can practice. They need not to come on these forums and ask how to script. LEARN HOW TO EXECUTE THE MOVE OR GO AWAY. Most moves are very simple, you just need to practice.

[Twins of Doom]

i agree intoxictd....well said

[JaraDaj]

Scripting is cheating as much as you bind your mouse1 button to attack. It's just more complicated. If you really think scripting is a form of cheating you are spending WAY too much time thinking bout it. The commands are in the game, everyone's game, the same instal that we all used on the day we bought it. It's in the game engine, with NO modifications, NO "hack" files. No 3rd party programs are used. Nothing but thought/trial and error.

 

I made a .bat file that opens a few programs for me for sound editting, backup my initial files and configures my sound card for the editting. Is that a hack?

 

I coded a program that stops pop ups, is that a cheat?

 

Once i wrote a program that quized me on terms and dates when i was in high school. Sorta like flashcards but i could use it on my pda and enter data for other classes. Did i have an unfair advantage that should be stopped?

 

Scripts have thier merit, not so much in this game. But in others, they are almost needed. Use them or not, doesn't effect me. Call them cheats, that shows ignorance. Ask yourself where you have obtained your "knowledge" about scripting. Is it from hear-say? Perhaps you thought you wittnessed a person using it. Perhaps it's insecurities of your "skill". Regardless of what it is, i'm sure it's not from using them yourself. Otherwise you would be in the same thought boat as me. They are harmless, and at worse, annoying.

 

By your rational, if i kill with little work, i'm cheating. if i can go into a game and kill with little to no resistance i'm a lame, cheating, noob. I think not. Some people have to work harder to be good, others don't. WHO are You to say which is which? WHo are YOU to say how I play the game I bought with MY money? Who are YOU to dictate what I do with the game I bought.

 

You people who cry cheat remind me of all the little kids who i played CS with. I'd use the AK since it's the most accuate weapon in the game (first 2-3 shots) and get head shots while on the roof of Militia, and they would cry cheat. You remind me of the whiners that played quake2 when i camped the hallways with the railgun. You remind me of the kids i went to school with who got pissed cuase i didn't study for the test and still got an A. Spend you energy on more important issues.

 

On a final note, Twins says;

 

please enlighten me but if soembody has a script to do a really big combo with the press of ONE single key and no skill how does this encourage them to use other moves?

 

Doesn't show skill in the way your narrow mind thinks it should. It shows he's genus in scripting. If i can do a script combo that kills in one press of a button i would be the man. I'd work for game companies, and would prob be in the ladders. Scripts aren't banned in ladder games if i remember correctly. What's that say bout them???

 

[intoxictd]

Spend you energy on more important issues.

 

You seem to be spending a lot of energy on this issue yourself. Rather angry your post seems, yes. Calm down. If you don't like hearing bitching, byebye. That's what these forums are about. I like these people who keep coming into a thread and bitch about bitchers. That makes little sense, doesn't it?

[Jevesus]

Originally posted by intoxictd

Scripting sux.

Scripting moves is cheating.

 

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

i agree intoxictd....well said

 

Upon reading this I realized that this topic has gone full circle and what we have now is a room full of dizzy people.

 

I could refute the statements by repeating what I've said countless times before, but I'm doubtful of your capabilites to understand the concept by simple explanation.

 

I'd love for you to one day, maybe not today or this year but someday, be able to comprehend this simple concept.

Unfortunately, due to the massive lengthy explanation, and drawings, this would require I'm inclined to give up and let you go on living in the simple world of yours in which there is only white and black.

 

I'll continue to use scripts that change my model and lightsabre color, say spiffy things, and the like. I'll have to stop using the script which upon the push of a button shuts off my sabre, takes a bow and turns on my sabre again, because scripting moves is cheating.

 

Don't hurt yourself on the door on the way out.