JK2++ Beta 3 Information!

[Doctor Shaft]

Good responses, but again, I feel the main point everyone is missing is that the only time a saber is really good is when you mention force powers. Granted, a lightsaber should be a weapon that needs to be augmented with the Force to be effective, but right now it's almost too much. In addition, your gunner has force powers too.

 

The funny thing is that for all the responses I received in regards to a scenario I presented, the answer wasn't in the sabers ablility, but in the force powers at your disposal. Person walking backwards with st rifle. Solution: force push. That's a good answer, but still, the lightsaber is still relegated to being heavily dependent on your use of the force. In addition, the gunner has the force too. He can just push back, speed away, jump around, and a bag of chips. I'm well aware that I can push grenades, flechettes, and the like back, but gunners are not stupid. Force push can only be used so quickly, and a gunenr knows he can overwhelm you quicker than you can push. The force speed saber rush stradegy is flawed. The gunner can do the same thing. Sure, if it was jedi vs. mercs, maybe the gunner would have something to worry about. But like I said, the gunner is always on the same level as you are. Using the force is simply not going to cut it because the opponent also has the force. You can run fast and slice all you want, a skilled gunner will not be overwhelmed by this. Iron Jedi mentioned that the gun has the tactical advantage in most game types. He is correct, because the nature of the saber vs the gun. However, that tactical advantage is too high. There is never a point in time where a saber competes very well against high powered guns. 1 v 1 and 1 v 3, whatever. The saber only competes when a person starts to use the force to catch up.

 

I have to put this up again. If anyone can tell me a stradegy of destroying a skilled gunner with a lightsaber, that doesn't involve force push, force pull, or any other kind of force power that throws the gunner off, I'd be happy to hear it. So far, I haven't gotten any, which I feel proves my point. The saber can do high damage, but it's simply not a quick kill ever. I'm not petitioning for a saber to become a weapon that kills three people at once like a rockety launcher, or give it long range capabilities. But because it is a force, 1 v 1, up close an personal weapon, a person should be rewarded for his efforts with his quick kill. It's still ridiculous that I spend all that time catching up to a gunner, only to find myself running around like a headless chicken trying to finish him off with swings, while the gunner both effortlessly and fluidly leaps into the air or backs up and finishes the job. The stradegy of standing around and blocking laser shots is both obvious and also easy to get around. People adapt, they figure out how to work an opponent. Also, it's annoying that if I have an st rifle user, even up close I am force to be on complete defense, for fear of being blasted to oblivion. I should be able to simply end the fight, not play a game of chicken. Which again brings my other point: no fear of the saber. An opponent walks backwards while gunning. Proposed solution, force push... pull, force whatever. So again, when was the lightsaber a solution? The gunner is more afraid of having his gun pulled or being force pushed somewhere than he is of getting attacked by the lightsaber.

 

 

In response to Greek Outcast, perhaps I misworded it, but in a fight of saber versus repeater, the odds are not even. A repeater has a much easier chance ot win, especially in JK2 ++ because they unnerfed the ammo usage and such. I don't care if guns get more ammo, but let's face it. When a gunner also has force powers to match your own, but he's now firing explosive blasts that kill you in two shots, and also come out faster than your best light stance swings, who really has the advantage. And once again, the solutions to the problem that I keep getting are force powers, not lightsaber maneuvers. You say use force push, throw, grip, protect, speed rush, etc. That's force powers, I wanted an example involving getting in close, and then ending it because you closed the distance.

 

I know a lightsaber is not going to rack the most kills in a large multiplayer game. That's incredibly obvious. If you have a rocket launcher and 10 people all in a tight space, you're going to have a field day. My point is not that a lightsaber should be a mass killing machine. My point is that it is currently not an effective weapon against anything but its self. People tell me that it is, but then I get the added "with the following force power" clause. I'm tired of having to push my opponents shots back, and not speed after him because I know that I cannot close distance and just finish the job. I have to close distance, and then do the headless chicken dance to secure more hits for the kill, while the gunner can be as imprecise as he wants, so long as he doesn't blow himself up. I don't know how we could make a lightsaber lethal against gunners, but the truth is that it's not. Using force powers is NOT a saber attack. That is using a force power. Yes, the lightsaber is very dangerous when you've pushed me to the floor and I can't fire back. yes the lightsaber is very dangerous against a repeater if you push one of my shots back into me, and then run at me when I have low health. No, the lightsaber is NOT dangerous when you just close distance and swing at me for the first time. I just take that hit, and then blow you up. these are not average player or newbie tactics. These are very practical, easy to use, and heavily used maneuvers, and they do the trick one one one, and one on three, all the time.

 

So, to end my usually long posts, I don't know if the guys making JK2 ++ are ever interested in addressing this issue or not, but again... tell me when you schooled your rocket launcher opponent, or even any gunning opponent except the bryar pistol without heavy use of the force. That means you didn't have to push his shots all day. And when you finally got in range, you were able to finish it. Not play the lucky headless chicken dance. Can you do it consistently against the best gunners around. If so, then wow, tell me the secret. If not, then my point stands. Have a good day.

[QuietSith]

Originally posted by DarthCobra

Nice poll. Gotta love how u have no bad choices. Its a nerfed fanmod. Im sure your likely to find that everyone isnt gonna like it. I'll pass.

 

The fanmod is a complete joke - dualsabers and grapples?

 

Yah that's what 'fans' want .. uh no.

 

You can't even have a halfway decent saber battle with a dualsaber.

 

Fanmod doesn't fix anything that is needed to be done and adds a whole series of gimmicks.

 

Not even comparable.

[DarthCobra]

Originally posted by NK_Zephorath

 

The poll was a joke, you obviously have no sense of humour. Please leave us all alone.

 

Nerfed fanmod? How so?

You're flamming our mod, but not giving any reasons at all.

 

I didnt flame anything. You've obviously made some changes (so its nerfed). As for the poll being a joke forgive me if i didnt notice. "Please leave us alone" what are you 10. You post a thread obviously wanting praise. I didnt give any critisim i just said ill pass. And while fanmods can be fine I usally find them nerfed more to the coders liking than for the community.

[MrYepp]

Hey cobra, making changes means you're nerfing it, so if i had a car, and I attached machine guns to it, and a rocket launcher, im changing it, thereby nerfing the car right??

[DarthCobra]

Hrmmmm....

[MrYepp]

**BUMP**

[WD_Rage]

Originally posted by DarthCobra

 

Nice poll. Gotta love how u have no bad choices. Its a nerfed fanmod. Im sure your likely to find that everyone isnt gonna like it. I'll pass.

 

..........

 

....I didnt give any critisim i just said ill pass. And while fanmods can be fine I usally find them nerfed more to the coders liking than for the community.

 

FanMod and JK2++ are nothing alike. FanMod is the Spork of JK2 (for those that do not know what Spork is head to http://www.jedilegacy.net/spork/ ). It will have a following, however, that following will more than likely not grow to huge proportions and be considered for competitive play. It's more of an after hours mod.

 

JK2++, on the other hand, is being built with the competition mindset, although it is wavering a bit from that mindset. It's the competition mod to give better and more fun game play. Comparing the two is like comparing apples and oranges.

 

As for nerfing.....what's been nerfed? Nerfing is taking an AK-47 and replacing it with a Nerf Ball Blaster (hence the term: nerfing). Everything in JK2++ has been just the opposite. Nothing has been nerfed.

 

I've said it once, and I'll say it again: Don't knock it before you try it. Playing it and reading it on cyber-paper are two different things.

 

As for not giving critisism, you did by saying it was "a nerfed fanmod". That's being critical, but you offered nothing else but your critisism.

[GrEEk_OuTcAsT]

Doctor Shaft

 

We mention forces because Forces cooperate better with Lightsaber than with weapons/guns. Some weapons "are" somewhat overpowered especially these that can be countered only with Push but again vs a Single EXPERIENCED Lightsaber user they have no chance. The main reason you think Guns are strong is because they are spammed easily in massive player games. Rockets and these fireballs (don't remember the weapon's name) can be defended with push and jump, most gunners can be killed with throws in the right moment and also gunners have great problem vs moving targets that is something lightsaber users always do. Even with Ghoul2 ON I have managed to be first in FFA JK2++ Servers even if I played with some experienced weaponers. You can't really explain the power of the lightsaber but with the way I use it with the force(s) any gunner is a piece of cake. And I say again. Only with the saber.

[WD_Rage]

Originally posted by GrEEk_OuTcAsT

 

any gunner is a piece of cake. And I say again. Only with the saber.

 

 

That's a bit exaggerated. The saber is a powerful weapon. But not every gunner is a piece of cake to you. You just haven't fought the right ones yet

[Cedrin]

The only people i've seen complaining about JK2++ were the ones that complained about version 1.2 becuase they couldnt cope with the steep learning curve while others did.

 

If you think 1.3 was an improvement, then you are being selfish and only caring about your needs becuase obviously you sucked at 1.2.

[WD_Rage]

Originally posted by Cedrin

The only people i've seen complaining about JK2++ were the ones that complained about version 1.2 becuase they couldnt cope with the steep learning curve while others did.

 

If you think 1.3 was an improvement, then you are being selfish and only caring about your needs becuase obviously you sucked at 1.2.

 

amen

[MrYepp]

I thought 1.02 was fine, it was really after 1.03 that I really quit playing this game as much. People in 1.02 who whine about DFA is almost like people in JK1 whining about the secondary swing.

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by Cedrin

The only people i've seen complaining about JK2++ were the ones that complained about version 1.2 becuase they couldnt cope with the steep learning curve while others did.

 

If you think 1.3 was an improvement, then you are being selfish and only caring about your needs becuase obviously you sucked at 1.2.

 

The same could be said about thinking jk2++ is an improvement over 1.03. If your going to argue either way at least take the time to support your opinion. Otherwise your wasting time and bandwidth. Saying someone sucks becasue they disagree with your opinion isn't supporting evidence.

[Cedrin]

I'm saying someone likely sucked at 1.02 if they are saying 1.03 was an improvement on the game.

 

Probably a majority of the skilled 1.02 players will agree with me on that point. I have talked with several highly skilled 1.02 duelers and they agree that 1.03 was aimed towards lesser experienced players. When I mean highly skilled 1.02 players, im not talking about people that only use RED or DFA.

 

I have read numerous discussions about 1.02 vs 1.03 and keep hearing the same complaint about 1.02 being brought up.

 

"You die in seconds in 1.02.. 1.03 you have a chance"

"I hated the DFA spammers, they always kill you"

"I always die to DFA"

"DFA is unblockable.."

"There is more saber control in 1.03"

"In 1.02 the same was random and hardly any blocking"

"1.03 is more fun now"

"You cant block in 1.02"

 

You wont believe how often I hear this on those threads. Everything listed there are the common complaints said by inexperienced players. They always tend to backup their arguments about 1.02 as being the victim, almost always.

 

Believe it or not, but it is the truth.

[KnightHawk420]

I ran your mod on my FFA server for a night. It was not well recieved. And I really hoped it would be, from what I seen it for the most part forced players to depend more on they're basic saber skills. Some told me it would just become a red whore fest, and I believe that to be wrong, some said it made saber battles last longer, also not particuarly true. I consider it very balanced if you are one to depend more on basic saber moves. And less on the same 2 hit binded combo. Blocking works like it should, including pull/push blocking that actually works.

 

Being an admin that enforces a few rules, having the ability to slap players to get they're attention and listen to the rules before I kick them is quite nice. But oh yes it can be quite too fun though.... Although compared to my force annihilation green beam of death, it's much less severe.

 

And the ability to rename them... hmmm well I abused it and found little reason to use it otherwise, but hey it's still cool to have.

 

I was overall happy with it, and still may run it permanently.

 

My only real complaint was that throw used a bit too little mana. Perhaps could put in adjustment....

 

Also nice to be able to set it up without having clients download it first, a definate plus.

 

In the next release if you could add the 2 hidden saber styles.. that would be a sweet option.

 

And to hell with the flamers, just keep in mind your making this mod the way you want it made. If we benefit all the better. And if you listen to the intelligent comments, ....all the better.

[QuietSith]

The sabers lasting too long, and heavy stance DFA issues are solved by typing:

 

g_saberghoul2collision 0

 

We tested it out at '1' (default for JK 2 ++ beta 3) and found the blocking way too high, making saber duels last way too long, and the DFA a low risk move.

 

So try that command at '0' and you'll notice a big difference.

 

They were experimenting with Ghoul 2 as part of the beta process, and have found out it causes too much blocking.

 

The next version of JK 2 ++ will have it at 0.

[Nice Saber]

Please could you guys provide me with a list of servers in which this mod is run..thx

[WD_Rage]

KnightHawk420,

 

I have noticed that the latter part of the week has been slow. Usually, our server is full, and usually it stays that way. Since about Thursday, it's been slow. Maybe it'll pick up later in the next coming week. I have kept an eye on the servers that use JK2++, and many of them were full (or near to) up until Thursday. Give it another try in the coming week. As for saber throw, I agree. There are many things that I am considering changing (push, pull, speed, jump, throw). For the next beta, I'm going to bump the cost back up a bit. Push/pull mana cost is currently too low, in my opinion.

 

Nice Saber,

 

[WD]'s Server: 146.20.43.203:28070

QuietSith's Server: 65.113.116.20:28072

jolt.co.uk - CTF: 195.149.21.44:28076

jolt.co.uk - FFA: 195.149.21.44:28077

Cheaters Wayside CTF: 128.143.126.254:28070 (down at the moment)

Gamers.com CTF 1: 165.193.20.14:28070

Gamers.com CTF 1: 165.193.20.15:28071

 

I see about three more, but I'm too lazy to copy them over (no copy and paste). I'm not sure what version Gamers.com uses. In my haste to release Beta 3, I forgot to change a link to the beta 3 file. Some might have gotten beta 2 instead.

[MrYepp]

i only have 4 servers with JK2++

[Con. Snake]

I just thought I'd chime in here.

 

I think everything is perfect, except for one thing. The Rockets. From my experiences, almost every map that has a rocket launcher in it, has turned into a rocket fest ever since the rocket amount was changed. If that was put back to the normal amount, it'd be perfect in my eyes.

[WD_Rage]

Yes, the rockets are a problem. I changed it back to 3 for the next release, which will be available in the next few days.