Duel Strategy

[Twins of Doom]

Twins - I expect you to write a saber guide that is as useful for sabering as your other guides are for force fx. Keep up the good work.

 

i'm working on it...i'll get it done, soon:)

 

been a little lazy lately, had a friend over this weekend so i didn't want to type it

 

 

i have it all ready to be typed, and i have the layout done

i also have the information about the stances in a nearly complete beta version and most of the normal moves written up;)

 

i've got all the approximate damages too;)

[Xzzy]

why do you want approximate?

 

With the source out you can get specific numbers, and even the code for calculating the falloff damage.

[Bluezman]

I also believe in using all three stances. Surprise can be a powerful weapon. As for hiding saber stances, I very seldomly hide my stance by turning off the saber. Rather that that, I deliberately show my opponent to be in one stance, suddenly change to another.

 

Example: stand there in red stance waiting for your opponent. In red stance, your saber points up vertically so it's very easy to see. As long as you stand still, you can't really harm your opponent because you always need at least half a second windup time for any swing. Or so thinks your opponent. Now he comes running at you, seeing that you don't move. Wait for him to close in, quickly change to blue and lunge into his face.

 

You might object, that this only works against not-so-skilled players. Agreed, but there are lots of them out there. Also, if you do this once in a duel (combined with lots of other surprise tactics), you can also throw off a skilled player with that.

 

Another thing can be to be using red stance for a longer time, that all of a sudden go to blue, close in on your opponent for some real quick spinning moves, move out and go back to red (depending on how much you threw him off, you can even go into a dfa and he doesn't know what hit him). Even if you are no master of blue, this is sometimes very effective, the point is just to be very quick, like all of a sudden go completely berserk with blue at him for max. 2 seconds, then move away again and change back to red.

 

Note: these tactics also depend on what game type you are in, whether there's force or no force, Sabertrace on/off, Ghoul2 Collision on/off etc.

 

I am referring to FFA duels, no force but jump, saber throw sometimes, Ghoul2 enabled and Sabertrace 0.

[defalc]

I mainly use blue and yellow stance, with the occasional foray into red. Start with blue stance, leap in close and try to land a kick. If you do, sabre em quick (lunges work well), then if you can't get in close enough, yellow and side slashes.

[C'jais]

People, does anyone have the link to Artifex's saber guide? I'd like to take a deeper look into it...

 

Actually, I'd like to fight artifex and see what all the fuss is about.

The problem is specializing in backstabs, because sooner or later the mods which weakens backstabs will be dominant and you'll be left standing with no *real* skills.

 

Bluez - great tips, although I always have the blackest of luck when using the red stance. I use red mainly to regain some room to breathe in and to scare away the "blender people" (manic blue-users)...

[Xzzy]

http://www.oculis.org/asc/

 

that's his site. I guess he pops in occasionally on his server but it's pretty rare anymore.. I haven't seen him for weeks, anyways.

 

Thing to remember if you do fight him is most of his strategy revolves around getting you knocked to the ground and then either backsweeping you or DFAing you.

 

Just stay on yer toes, he's really good at pulling at the precise moment needed to toss you on yer ass.

[C'jais]

Thanks Xzzy.

 

Now, his guide tells me that:

 

-Blue is complete sh*t

 

-Medium is okay, but the chained attacks are worthless.

 

-Red is über, and the "defense breaking probabilities and *gorgeous* range is the best thing since toasted toast.

 

Someone, please tell me what you got out of the guide apart from my findings.

 

Xzzy, I never play force duels, and I can easily see why artifex would want to play it: It's much easier to wh*re. In NF duels, you can get unlucky and you're not in the same position of control.

[Xzzy]

You got it, that's pretty much all he says.

 

And yes most people would consider him an attack spammer, however, the game has evolved to the point where that's not an insult anymore.

 

Everyone does it, and I mean everyone. If you don't pull/backstab someone, you can guarantee they'll do it to you. If you don't push/dfa someone, they'll do it to you.

 

In his defense, artifex did want that changed. His big mantra was "more options", not less like things are now. It *would* be pretty nice to enter a fight without being able to predict that a backstab is going to finish it.

[Bluezman]

I bow my head before ArtifeX's analysis, at the time it came out it was the most complete, most detailed and simply best guide to be found. Back in 1.02 it helped me A LOT.

 

However, when 1.03 came out, ArtifeX basically only analysed the changes to 1.02 without really going too much into 1.03 itself.

 

As for today, I think his guides don't consider the changes made through Ghoul2/Sabertrace and other mods that are out there. To give you an example: With Ghoul2 enabled (and I find that a lot on today's servers) blocking is completely different. Blue stance indeed CAN block red stance, and blue is more worthwhile than before.

 

ArtifeX describes a very straight path of efficiency on how to kill your opponents. He ended up at the end of the road, where (according to what he says) was able to beat almost anyone with pull/backstab. That's when he took his leave because he got bored.

 

Now I believe that you can still have fun with this game because not neccessarily must everyone choose the same path as ArtifeX (even if he claims this). Especially with the new mods, I fell in love with JO completely anew. I mailed Artifex to give his comments to what I consider the unofficial 1.04 patch (Ghoul2/Sabertrace) but he never replied to my e-mail.

 

Bottom line:

The hard facts in his guides such as damage numbers, explanation of moves and some tactical stuff is still great. But his conlusions ("screw blue, get red") need to be viewed critically especially with the new modifications made to saber combat.

 

My personal view is: no matter how efficient red may be, I'd like to use all stances to be unpredictable and surprise my opponents.

 

This way, everyone needs to find his own style.

[Twins of Doom]

-Red is über, and the "defense breaking probabilities and *gorgeous* range is the best thing since toasted toast.

 

 

Toasted Toast....hmmmmm....*goes and makes some toasted toast*

 

 

and ya, that's about all i got out of it, and some of his guide was flawed too......red DOESN'T block everything.....yellow and blue can still kick ass

 

light isn't always blocked, ESPECIALLY when using a force power

 

yellow CAN break the defense of heavy stance

 

now i've already read this and i'm gunna stop reading....

 

but just one thing i have to say:

 

i have a clan member, he ALWAYS uses heavy stance (don't get me wrong, he's an excellent player with his heavy stance). When i recruited him he used to always win, but after playing him a couple times it's more of a fifty fifty (slightly leaning in my direction:P) as he's predictable, there's only so many moves you can do in heavy stance

[Xzzy]

Originally posted by Bluezman

As for today, I think his guides don't consider the changes made through Ghoul2/Sabertrace and other mods that are out there.

 

He stopped playing under a week after the source was released. He stopped updating his site at that point as well.

 

So it's not that he's not considering them, it's that his website is a time capsule for the way jk2 was at that point in time.

[Twins of Doom]

Originally posted by Xzzy

 

He stopped playing under a week after the source was released. He stopped updating his site at that point as well.

 

So it's not that he's not considering them, it's that his website is a time capsule for the way jk2 was at that point in time.

 

actually it's more like he got bored of pulling and then backsweeping...so then he quit, and THEN the source code was released.....and i wouldn't go so far as to call it a time capsule.....i'd call it a biased article

 

if your gunna write an article, make it without being biased to the one stance or else you might as well not write it

[Bluezman]

Originally posted by Xzzy

 

He stopped playing under a week after the source was released. He stopped updating his site at that point as well.

 

So it's not that he's not considering them, it's that his website is a time capsule for the way jk2 was at that point in time.

Uhhhh.... yes.

I perfectly agree. And I believe that's what I said. At least that's what I ment to say

 

Note that I said "his guides" don't consider these changes, not "ArtifeX doesn't onsider these changes". I meant they don't deal with them. Whether ArtifeX deals with the changes I don't know, at least he didn't reply to my e-mail.

 

I just wanted to point out - just as you did - that the guides reflect the way JK2 was at the time ArtifeX stopped updating his site. Thus the guides in his current state must not be taken literally for the way JK2 is now.

 

Am I making my point clear now?