Guest King Andrei Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Yeah, what a long discussion. This is one of the biggest topics I've ever seen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 Incidentally if anybody is interested in my personal beliefs (all 2 of you, lol) here's some sites that are pretty close to what I believe: http://www.doesgodexist.org http://www.catholicoutlook.com And to sum up: I think it matters more how you live your life than what creeds you mentally or verbally give assent to. PS: If anybody else has a degree in religion and wants to talk, just give me a PM. ; ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest King Andrei Posted June 30, 2002 Share Posted June 30, 2002 That's reminds me, I remember a website I once visited: http://www.stopislam.com Try it and tell me what you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
technobot Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 God gave us free choice because He didn't want robots. Free choice is something he even denied most of the angels. Satan had the gall to think he was equal to God, and was thus cast from heaven. Whether we go to Heaven or Hell will be a direct result of the decisions we make through life, our own decisions. Obi-Wan13 said it best already, but God DOESN'T need us to love him. But He's our Father, and like any good Father, He wants His children to grow up, be good people, and love Him back, because as I'm sure many of us have done growing up, we've pissed off our parents but they love us regardless. God loves everyone of us more than any parent could love his/her own children. Carl Sagan's quote from Contact (I'm paraphrasing) Ellie: Prove to me God exists. Palmer: Prove to me your father loved you. Oh yeah, Limelight, I certainly don't hate you, especially if you DON'T believe in God. As a Christian, one of the things I try NOT to do (and it's probably one of the hardest ones ) is to judge people, only God can judge us. And to judge others only brings judgement down from God. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Divine Spirit Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by Andrei555 That's reminds me, I remember a website I once visited: http://www.stopislam.com Try it and tell me what you think. In response to the introduction story (cant be bothered to read the whole site): theres always going to be some stories made by people with opposing religions to explain why other religions are wrong. the fact that so many religions exist proves the fact that these stories cant be proved right or wrong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest King Andrei Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Was Mohamed really a serial rapist? And did he actually slaughtered so many people? Some people don't get it that terrorism has NOTHING to do with religion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted July 1, 2002 Author Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by Andrei555 That's reminds me, I remember a website I once visited: http://www.stopislam.com Try it and tell me what you think. \ I certainly hope you dont hold those views. That is absolute crap. I've never read or seen anything about Islam in that light, and I've read enough to say its mostly lies. 80% of poeple are baised in this world by thier religion, and most cannot hold an objective view of things. That site is as much of a hate group as they claim Islam is. "Stop Islam"? How, sluaghter them? Feed them other religions untill they give in and abondon thier chosen beliefs? What freedom is that? That site's sole purpose is to breed hate and misconception, whether what is says is true or not. It makes me entirely sick that someone is demented enough to create that site. (no, im not islamic or something). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Redwing Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Um, what on earth? One of my best friends is a Muslim girl from Lebanon. I don't know what Islam started out as, and I don't believe in it, but I know that it certainly isn't what is being protrayed there. All that is there is hate. And, FYI: I'm a 'born again' Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest King Andrei Posted July 1, 2002 Share Posted July 1, 2002 Originally posted by Lime-Light \ I certainly hope you dont hold those views. That is absolute crap. I've never read or seen anything about Islam in that light, and I've read enough to say its mostly lies. 80% of poeple are baised in this world by thier religion, and most cannot hold an objective view of things. That site is as much of a hate group as they claim Islam is. "Stop Islam"? How, sluaghter them? Feed them other religions untill they give in and abondon thier chosen beliefs? What freedom is that? That site's sole purpose is to breed hate and misconception, whether what is says is true or not. It makes me entirely sick that someone is demented enough to create that site. (no, im not islamic or something). Someone HAS obviuosly started that site after 11th of September, but what the bastard does not understand is that Islam has NOTHING to do with terrorism. I didn't really believe them, but I still have some suspicousy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pogwaffle Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 I see I have come pretty late in this debate and much has been said. For some peoples intrest I am a "born again" Christian. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FunClown Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 I knew a guy at school who was planning to join the Taliban last September (this was in 2000). Well after September 11 his mosque in my city got an explosive cocktail thrown at it. A 24 hour guard (tax payers expense) was then put in place and it was all in the media and the guy who did it got caught. What the media didn't tell us Australians who read the media is that 7 churches got bombed and kids in adjoining childcare places were threatened by middle eastern men that they were going to come and slit the childrens throats. No action was taken on this behalf. I don't know about other people, but this saddens, annoys and really gets on my nerves. Especially in light of the Mosque having Taliban supporters. BTW, you will probably see the Taliban supporter at the commonwealth games competing for Australia at Manchester. For the record I don't hate muslims, I just want everyone in this country to get a fair go. Because I'm in the majority its beginning to seem I'm not entitled to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Woa, I cought up on the reading, and all I have to say is this, And it should end this topic real fast: "The higher, The Fewer." (Joke for you Star Trek TNG fans:p) No seriously, here is what I have to say about abortion: It's wrong. You kill an innocent little baby. You don't want the baby, Don't have unprotected sex. You make stupid Choices, You live with stupid consequences. Homosexuality: Wrong. Pure Lust. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. (you can call me a gay basher all you want, But I don't Hate The gay people. I just hate the sin) Pre-marital sex: It's also wrong. I don't do it, and I wish that no one did. It can cause Aids, and other assorted viruses. Masturbation: Sick. I don't know why Anyone would want to do it. *shudders* I hope that my advice will reach some of you. God bless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Homosexuality: Wrong. Pure Lust. Pure lust? That's wrong, and rather naive. If it was pure lust, then why would they 'choose,' as you Christians seem to think they do, to be with people of the same sex? I mean honestly, we're built to be with people of the opposite sex, so if they're just horny, why don't they go get a woman? Please don't try to suggest that it's something they go back and forth with, I have had gay friends who never have been with people of the opposite sex, and are disgusted by the thought of doing so. It is an ignorant (see definition above to avoid feeling insulted ) person who thinks that it's just a matter of lust. Honestly, how many homosexuals have you met, and known well? It's also wrong. I don't do it, and I wish that no one did. It can cause Aids, and other assorted viruses. Well, as to the 'other assorted viruses,' coughing and breathing can do that for you...as can eating and basically anything else. However, unprotected sex is especially dangerous, and if stopping the spread of disease is your intent, you're going about it the wrong way. Saying: 'don't have pre-marital sex, it's wrong!!' doesn't work. I think that's been established by the fact that the majority of people in America are taught that it's wrong, but the majority of people in America still do it. So that isn't doing much to stop the spread of disease. There is another way you can stop the spread of disease though, it's called a condom, and it is probably the second most powerful tool against STDs (the first obviously being celibacy ). Not many people can handle being celibate, but if you push condoms hard, and make a big deal of them, most people can handle those, so if you really want to stop AIDS and such things, that is the battle you should be fighting. I'm not saying give up on celibacy, I'm just saying that it's a battle that isn't likely to be won any time in the next century or two, so fight where it counts. The unfortunate side to celibacy is that it promotes adultery. Obviously if you are able to strictly follow the bible, you will never have Pre-Marital sex, or commit adultery; the trouble is that most people are not perfect, and they make mistakes. If a man or woman is only ever with one partner sexually, over time he or she will begin to wonder if the grass is greener on the other side. He or she will wonder if sex with someone else might be better, and unfortunately as years of wondering build, the person will be more and more likely to cheat. I'm sure those who are Christians think that it is the people who have sex with a variety of partners who are more likely to cheat. That is not generally the case. Oh those people do cheat sometimes, but the people more likely to cheat are the ones who haven't tried anyone else. I think I'm the perfect example of this...I think the likelyhood of my ever being unfaithful to a partner went down dramatically after I engaged in pre-marital sex with someone I didn't care about. It was fun, and what have you, but as I said somewhere in here before, it didn't compare to even kissing someone I loved. So it seems to me that my principles will be strengthened by the fact that I will always know that even if I do cheat, it won't be as good as anything I did with my wife. I have some ideas about god and that topic that I would like to share...but I think this post has been long enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by obi-wan13 Homosexuality: Wrong. Pure Lust. God made Adam and Eve, not Adam and Steve. How do you know that homosexual sex is purely lust-driven? How? From what I've seen, a homosexual couple is just as caring, affectionate and loving as a heterosexual one. (you can call me a gay basher all you want, But I don't Hate The gay people. I just hate the sin) Hating them for something they do that is perfectly natural for them is just as offensive, insulting, and hurtful as hating them for being them - in fact, there's little difference, as far as I can see. Pre-marital sex: It's also wrong. I don't do it, and I wish that no one did. It can cause Aids, and other assorted viruses. How does it 'cause' AIDS? It may spread it (or HIV), but having pre-marital sex is no more or less likely to get you infected than 'post marital' sex is. Unprotected casual sex, however, is a different matter. What you don't seem to understand is that many unmarried couples are in monogamous relationships, with just as little risk of getting STDs as married couples - they're not all sleeping around - most of then aren't. Masturbation: Sick. I don't know why Anyone would want to do it. *shudders* I could say something bloody obvious here, but I won't, because there's a remote chance I'd get banned for it. Why is masturbation sick? And how could you know why anyone would want to do it if you haven't done it yourself? --Edit-- Damn. Beaten again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Damn. Beaten again I assume we keep getting the same urge to visit this thread at the same time, but you are in the middle of eating ice cream when you get it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wacky_Baccy Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril I assume we keep getting the same urge to visit this thread at the same time, but you are in the middle of eating ice cream when you get it... :lol: LMAO! Cheeky sod! Actually, I'll have you know that I very rarely eat ice cream (although I love it... Which is why I eat it infrequently... If you see what I mean ), and that I had my reply all but finished ten minutes before you posted yours, but I re-wrote a portion of it, thus making me late again I'll be quicker next time... Just you wait... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by Wacky_Baccy :lol: LMAO! Cheeky sod! Actually, I'll have you know that I very rarely eat ice cream (although I love it... Which is why I eat it infrequently... If you see what I mean ), and that I had my reply all but finished ten minutes before you posted yours, but I re-wrote a portion of it, thus making me late again I'll be quicker next time... Just you wait... Feel free, then I won't have to worry about getting Carpal Tunnel Syndrome from writing these posts...lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted July 2, 2002 Author Share Posted July 2, 2002 Just keeps going and going... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Well those where just my opinions. You can like um or not like um, But don't hate me for having them Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by Lime-Light Just keeps going and going... As it has for many centuries. --Edit-- Obi Wan--I don't hate you, I just disagree with you. I try very hard not to hate anyone, though some people just don't seem to have any clear redeeming factors... Anyway, you're not one of those people--you're a cool guy, and I happen to think you're uninformed, and if you knew more gay people, you wouldn't dissaprove so stringently . I could be wrong, but I have met very few people with gay friends that thought homosexuality was evil (or acting on homosexuality). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by Vestril As it has for many centuries. I think he was talkin about the thread. But, this thread MAY very well go on for centuries. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by obi-wan13 I think he was talkin about the thread. But, this thread MAY very well go on for centuries. I know, I'm just saying that he seems so shocked by it, but it will keep going on and it should keep going on because this has at the heart of it a very old argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lime-Light Posted July 2, 2002 Author Share Posted July 2, 2002 ....one completely impossible to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 The problem is that the topic of religion shouldnt be about who wins or not. That is why things are the way they are. Everyone wants to convince everyone that their religion is the truth. When in fact everyone is just being closed minded. They are closing their doors to anything BUT their own beleifs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted July 2, 2002 Share Posted July 2, 2002 Originally posted by MotionMan The problem is that the topic of religion shouldnt be about who wins or not. That is why things are the way they are. Everyone wants to convince everyone that their religion is the truth. When in fact everyone is just being closed minded. They are closing their doors to anything BUT their own beleifs. It's a debate, the purpose is to enlighten other people, not to 'win' what is winning, anyway? To force the other person into sharing your beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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