Thanks Alot To Whiners

[intoxictd]

hahahahahahaha!!!!

 

The lightsaber is even more like a WIFFLE BALL BAT now!!! OMG!

 

I upgraded, played in 4 servers....and now JKII has turned into a kick fest or nOOb slash fest!!! Everyone is spamming lightening. Nobody's actually fighting. I said the patch sucks on one server....some nOOb replied, why cause it stopped the script for spamming moves you cheap f**???? Two secons later, he gripped me and I turned absorb on, and he called me a cheap F**. Then I DFA'd him, and he called me a cheap F**. The I kicked him, and backslashed at him. The whole time he was holding down attack and slashing away in Blue stance...AND HE WON!!!! LOL. Special moves suck now. So a sought him down and fought him without any special moves. Halfway thru the fight he ran off and got health and shields. It took me 12 minutes to defeat him. This was a freaking CTF GAME!!!!

 

Quick killing is gone except for kicking. The game should have a label on the box for "Ages 8 and under" because that's all its good for now.

 

Thanx to all the babies who wouldn't learn to play.

[Rad Blackrose]

I fear that Jah's server is the only good server left out of the rest that I once called home. Tonight, I played on multiple FFA and duel servers and found that a plastic butter knife is more effective then a lightsaber. We want a blade that lops off limbs, breaks doors open, and even lures in chicks occasionally (contradicts my merc saying, I know). Instead, all we get is a blade that takes 20-30 hits just to kill. 20 to 30! And that is bypassing blocks, as well!

 

1.04 was a good attempt to bring home the point of using standard swings along with your specials. However, Raven has nerfed the normal swings to the point that all moves in 1.04 are useless. The anti-pivot BS = needed. Removal of air lunge to hover = needed (for those that can't lunge anymore, here is a hint: Overhead hack first into the lunge). However, reducing all damage and being forced to use g_server commands to create a real match = not needed. People being able to defend every single hit with your back turned = not needed. Kick whores (my nightmare came true), saber throw whores (let us knock those sabers the hell away!), and DFA spammers = not needed.

 

I enjoy the fencing part of JKII, where people who use moves are usually frowed upon and instead have to rely on defending and attacking, counter offensives are critical. 1.04 looked as if it wanted to stress this, and I agree with it. I mean, how many times have you seen Obi-Wan abuse DFA, or Luke kick the crap out of someone. Unfortunately, Raven did it all wrong.

[Etherael]

Originally posted by Blank1234

"it's now impossible not to telegraph a running forward light lunge"

 

You could always script it heh

 

Blank

 

Scripting it would be extremely lame, aside from that there is actually a cooldown on the momentum for a roll execution, i.e. even if you totally stop pressing forward and immediately instantly crouch, you will roll. You have to be still for a period of time, albeit short, before you can just crouch.

 

The only way though I have figured out that you *can* execute a crouching lunge without telegraphing, although still it's a bit of a telegraph, just less vague than crouchwalking or stopping and standing still for a few picoseconds, is to "walk" toward them, you can instantly crouch whilst walking and you won't roll.

 

Still, this is getting to be better known and it's not really a solution. I would like it if you could press crouch a few picoseconds through a light overhead chop (after you've pressed it but before the animation starts) to execute the lunge.

[Dak_iSuk]

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

Instead, all we get is a blade that takes 20-30 hits just to kill. 20 to 30! And that is bypassing blocks, as well!

 

How many Jedi vs. Jedi battles in the movies were started and ended in one hit?

 

There are 1 hit kils in the 1.04 with the lightsaber. The amount of skill required is considerable to pull off on purpose.

[Etherael]

Removal of air lunge to hover = needed (for those that can't lunge anymore, here is a hint: Overhead hack first into the lunge).

 

removal of hover was ok, but no, air lunge was fine, overhead hack first into lunge takes time and is a telegraph, you have to completely execute the first overhead hack before you can lunge.

[Rad Blackrose]

How many Jedi vs. Jedi battles in the movies were started and ended in one hit?

 

There are 1 hit kils in the 1.04 with the lightsaber. The amount of skill required is considerable to pull off on purpose.

 

Thank you for professing your ignorance, especially when I threw in the following words "bypassing blocking."

 

When a lightsaber connects with tissue/organs, not shields, the person is as good as dead. Sure, he might get lucky and lose a limb, or have a hole through an non vital organ, but if it is a deadly strike and is not blocked, consider the jedi who got struck down dead, left to ponder his mistake for eternity.

 

Edit:

 

Did you also notice in the movies that a lot of the Jedi vs. Jedi battles were mostly blocks and parries? They didn't throw DFA or backstab because they knew the were screwed if they left themselves open.

[intoxictd]

How many Jedi vs. Jedi battles in the movies were started and ended in one hit?

 

 

Ummm....in the movies, most of it was sabers clashing. You don't get much of that in the game. When you run up behind someone and hit them in the open back....it should do considerable damage. In the movies, if you turn down the blocking ability of a lightsaber as it is in the game....there would be a LOT of one hit kills. It's a freakin lightsaber!!!

[Dak_iSuk]

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

Thank you for professing your ignorance, especially when I threw in the following words "bypassing blocking."

 

Blocking or no, how many Jedi died from one hit with a lightsaber in the movies? Two, thats how many. And I seem to recall some movie that just came out when someguy... who was it... was hit TWICE with a lightsaber and didnt die. *gasp* And maybe in another movie called Empire Strikes Back when two other fellows were struck with lightsabers and didnt die...

 

I thought this was a Star Wars game with its foundation taken from the movies... Im so ignorant, thanks for pointing that out! So much for a civil discussion.

 

Originally posted by intoxictd

When you run up behind someone and hit them in the open back....it should do considerable damage.

 

Do that in red stance and it will do considerable damage. Please remember these are Jedi with the force as their ally. Its called "willing suspense of disbelief". And thank you for replying in a civil manner.

[darth_sebbo]

hrhr I see more and more FFA whiners here ... well, lets Face it, FFA is n00b playground ... if you want to do more saberfight, go on a duel server (as i do), if you want to use guns, CTF is it now ... where is the problem? cant you get much much much quake like kills in FFA games anymore? oooo..... what a pity

 

You have to realise that the people like me that hated backstab, didnt play CTF or FFA, we play on duel servers ... on nf servers with jump lvl 3 , saber attack / defend lvl 3 ...

 

btw i used to play CTF a bit but it was crap ... everyone could grap the flag and turn on absorb +speed ... no way to kill him with a backstab ... you had to use a rocket or anything else ...

 

FFA is boooring .... always pull / push backstab just crap .... I owned every FFA game i was ever in, FFA is crap. It might be funny to relax, but for real JK2 Gaming, FFA was nothing ..

 

Raven did what they had to do ... improve the real core of the mp game ... the duel mode ... and they did extremly well ... ok kick is still overpowered but i can kick too *gg*

 

BTW if you need 20-30 hits to kill sb, then you are just too bad to play this game....

 

BTW 2, i think a game that needs no skill, just only 1 move to kill sb is for 8 aged children ... but a game where you need skill is NOT for 8 aged....

 

so long

ds

 

 

P.S.: If you wanna just have much kills ... go play quake, take the rocketlauncher and have fun ... god dammit

[Bad Jedi]

Raven did what they had to do ... improve the real core of the mp game ... the duel mode ...

 

No the real core of the MP game is fighting with sabers.In FFA TFFA CTF and Duel.(And the other gametypes that I never play) But the saber and the guns are unbalanced now. I don't think the backstab move was a problem, but (some) of the people who use it al the time. I don't understand that they can be happy with a high scrore when al they did was pull+backstab.But ofcource ravan can't change the people so this was their only way of fixing the exesive(sorry english is not my primary language) backstab use. If more people saw it is a "special" move, to be used when the opportunity comes naturally (read: when the opponent is stupid enough to stand behind you to long) then it wouldn't have to be changed.

 

One hit kill moves should be in the game. Because if master Yoda and a Padawan would fight, shoudn't Yoda be able to take him out with one powerful strike! But those attacks should be more complicated and they would need skill to to them right.Anyone can turn his ass to you and do a backstab.Let's face it, backstab/swing is to easy to do to be such a powerfull move.

 

So untill all servers are 1.04 (if that will ever happen) don't whine about the backstab itself, whine about the players who are not using it honorable.

 

And for the forward lunge in mid-air, it has been said and I will say it again!!!!...........Why??? :( :( :cry7:

[Rad Blackrose]

Blocking or no, how many Jedi died from one hit with a lightsaber in the movies? Two, thats how many. And I seem to recall some movie that just came out when someguy... who was it... was hit TWICE with a lightsaber and didnt die. *gasp* And maybe in another movie called Empire Strikes Back when two other fellows were struck with lightsabers and didnt die...

 

Episode 2: Anikan lost an arm, and the wound cauterized. No death because the wound was clean off the shoulders. Not a fatal attack. As for Obi-Wan, he got a hole in his leg. Once again, not a fatal attack.

 

Empire Strikes Back: Luke lost his hand, wound cauterized. Not a fatal attack, does not die. As for the wampa, no one knows if he does die.

 

A New Hope: Remember the 2 bar fighters? One loses an arm, wound cauterizes, not a fatal attack, does not die.

 

It is you who does not know his lightsabers that well, nor his Jedi vs Jedi battles as well. This is JKII, not the movies. In the movies, the fights are scripted. Lucas wouldn't throw in a climax killer unless he really wanted to screw stuff up. If you get a saber upside the head or straight down the middle, you are dead.

[Dak_iSuk]

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

If you get a saber upside the head or straight down the middle, you are dead.

 

You do that in red stance properly, or with either DFA and The opponet will be dead in 1 hit.

[Twins of Doom]

i quickly whipped this up in Paint (too lazy to use adobe, and was easier this way, lol)

 

[Rad Blackrose]

You do that in red stance properly, or with either DFA and The opponet will be dead in 1 hit.

 

Red stance this, red stance that. Red stance means **** if the person blocks it, which is often. A good light stance user eats a strong stance user for breakfast. And it should be with any stance that the kill should be enacted. DFA only connects once a blue moon, so scratch that out of the equasion. Any others you wish to try, or even go out of the way of dodging?

 

Oh, and this thread waivered its right to anti-flame protection the minute darth sebbo opened his mouth.

 

As for that picture, I agree Twins.

[Dak_iSuk]

Originally posted by Rad Blackrose

 

Red stance this, red stance that. Red stance means **** if the person blocks it, which is often. A good light stance user eats a strong stance user for breakfast. And it should be with any stance that the kill should be enacted. DFA only connects once a blue moon, so scratch that out of the equasion. Any others you wish to try, or even go out of the way of dodging?

 

Oh, and this thread waivered its right to anti-flame protection the minute darth sebbo opened his mouth.

 

As for that picture, I agree Twins.

 

Hey I'm not dodging anything.

to summarize: You said there should be 1 hit kills...

1. I said there were few in the movies and therefore the game is more like the movies because they are now rare in the game. You were even nice enough to point out the exact instances in the movies where Jedi were hit with lightsabers and didn't die.

 

2. There are 1 hit kills still in the game. I watch my server all the time and I see people do it all day long. The people who do pull them off consistently are very good at timing and practice allot.

 

3. If all stances were 1 hit kills, why have three stances?

 

4. These arent cattle being shot with an air cannon in the brain, you are fighting Jedi... If Jedi were easy to kill we'd all watch Star Trek.

 

Twins of Doom is EXCACTLY right! It takes timing and more work to use the special moves.

 

So I suggest you spend more time practicing and less time trying to get in the last word.

[thehomicidalegg]

Red stance this, red stance that. Red stance means **** if the person blocks it, which is often. A good light stance user eats a strong stance user for breakfast. And it should be with any stance that the kill should be enacted.

 

that means nothing as every1 have different skill levels. one can say that a good red stance user can eat blue stancer for breakfast or a sh!t blue stancer can eat an even ****ter yellow stancer for breakfast. besides anyone who remain in the same stance won win much against people who use 2 or more stances of similar skill level. personally i like yellow+red with an occasional lunge, but they disallowed the air lunge

[Twins of Doom]

um....just use all the stances.....duh.....

press the "L" key...

[Blank1234]

"1. I said there were few in the movies and therefore the game is more like the movies because they are now rare in the game. You were even nice enough to point out the exact instances in the movies where Jedi were hit with lightsabers and didn't die."

 

Well this doesn't work for a few reasons... in almost all instances that I can think of, when a saber connected their opponent was disabled (or dead) and unable to attack. A single hit, bye bye anakins hand and end of duel.

 

The only instance I can think of where a saber connected and the duel wasn't over was when vader took that glancing blow... of course, he's got body armor on Mon Mothma with her saber only has that robe thingy

 

As far as the whole this game should be like the movies... what whacky starwars movie did you see where stormtroopers ran around saying "HEY YOU THERE" with 3 lando's chasing them going "WOOOHOOO" and a Mon Mothma randomly DFA'ing into the group hoping for a kill

 

"2. There are 1 hit kills still in the game. I watch my server all the time and I see people do it all day long. The people who do pull them off consistently are very good at timing and practice allot."

 

We should define what a 1hit kill is. I consider a 1 hit kill a move that can take a guy from start (25 shields/100 health) to 0 health in a single hit. The only saber move that's capable of doing this is the Strong stance special move, and only if you sit within it's entiring animation. The downward hack in strong MIGHT be able too... truth be told, I'm playing alot of war3 now and haven't bothered looking over saber damage and what not I do remember DFA killing me in a hit when I was fixing my config in a fffa though

 

As for DFA... the thing is insanely difficult to connect with in a duel. It's telegraphed a mile away and you have basically no control once you launch it. Timing has almost nothing to do with it, it's mostly a test on how fast your opponents reflexes are... and you don't need to be that fast to roll/jump or just sidestep out of the way.

 

"4. These arent cattle being shot with an air cannon in the brain, you are fighting Jedi... If Jedi were easy to kill we'd all watch Star Trek."

 

I would never watch startrek And sadly, jedi are very easy to kill... just not with sabers (compared to other methods). Otherwise, you wouldn't see everyone taking a gun over a saber, or kicking.... or force use over saber swinging.

 

Finally, you may not be shooting cattle in the brain with an air cannon, but I did swing my saber through a guys face and only did 20 damage And then he was shot in the heel by a charged bryers and keeled over and died.

 

I hated that part of the movie -_-

 

Blank

[IronJedi Kaga]

For all your talk about appeasing whiners, there's awhole lot of whining in this thread.

 

First off, CTF,FFA, and Team FFA are not ruined. You can still inflict massive damage on a person with heavy stance. There's also a chance that you may actually have to use..a GUN and shoot someone. If your going saber only, it means that you may actually have to..hit someone MORE THAN ONCE in order to kill them. God forbid, all you skilled players complaining how 1.04 took away the skill of the game having to hit someone twice with the saber in order to kill him/her.

 

I guess to restore happiness to the JK2 world Raven should make every saber swing a 1 hit kill. Dont forget to include saber throw as well, that should also be a 1 hit kill. Hell, Raven should make saber touches a 1 hit kill. Why bother wasting time having to swing at an opponent? Even better, why doesn't Raven make JK2 a true game of "skill" and make every single weapon and every single offensiv force power a 1 hit kill? You get pushed, pull, gripped, lightning attacked, or even kicked and you die on contact.

At that point the game would take the most skill on the face of the Earth.

[Twins of Doom]

Originally posted by IronJedi Kaga

For all your talk about appeasing whiners, there's awhole lot of whining in this thread.

 

First off, CTF,FFA, and Team FFA are not ruined. You can still inflict massive damage on a person with heavy stance. There's also a chance that you may actually have to use..a GUN and shoot someone. If your going saber only, it means that you may actually have to..hit someone MORE THAN ONCE in order to kill them. God forbid, all you skilled players complaining how 1.04 took away the skill of the game having to hit someone twice with the saber in order to kill him/her.

 

I guess to restore happiness to the JK2 world Raven should make every saber swing a 1 hit kill. Dont forget to include saber throw as well, that should also be a 1 hit kill. Hell, Raven should make saber touches a 1 hit kill. Why bother wasting time having to swing at an opponent? Even better, why doesn't Raven make JK2 a true game of "skill" and make every single weapon and every single offensiv force power a 1 hit kill? You get pushed, pull, gripped, lightning attacked, or even kicked and you die on contact.

At that point the game would take the most skill on the face of the Earth.

 

we are talking about saber only games because that is what the patch changed, it changed almost nothing to guns

have you ever tried saber only CTF, Team FFA, or FFA with saber only?

you move a lot slower while swinging in heavy stance, you'll never catch the flag bearer

and if you do hit him/her with medium or light you won't be able to do it again because all they have to do is roll and put on absorb to counter your frantic pulls or grips

 

as for your idea for the next patch..........

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by Twins of Doom

 

we are talking about saber only games because that is what the patch changed, it changed almost nothing to guns

have you ever tried saber only CTF, Team FFA, or FFA with saber only?

you move a lot slower while swinging in heavy stance, you'll never catch the flag bearer

and if you do hit him/her with medium or light you won't be able to do it again because all they have to do is roll and put on absorb to counter your frantic pulls or grips

 

as for your idea for the next patch..........

 

I've played all the major game types saber only. As for ffa and team ffa, it's really hard to win if all one does is roll away and heal after every single hit. At some point a person playing ffa or team ffa is going to have to be inolved protracted battle with someone else, or he/she wont score points.

 

As for saber only CTF, played it once and have never played it since. Don't play it because the saber just isn't suited for gameplay. Your sitting there trying to catch someone who has a head star with a melee weapon, yet your both moving at the same speed. Basically your going to end up chasing the guy all the flag carrier all the way back to his/her home base (unless they get cut off). Once the enemy carrier gets back to base you then have to take on a superior number of defenders and the eemy flag carrier in order to get the flag back. Its not a JK2 problem, its the problem of trying to play CTF with a melee weapon. See how well UT CTF using nothing but the impact hammer, or how well tribes 2 CTF is using nothing but the shocklance. Its not the saber, its just the concept of using a melee weapon in ctf.

[MrYepp]

Let's sum it up:

 

 

Saber is as effective as a wiffle bat now. The only reason for me to use a saber in a game is for saber only games. Saber vs. Gun is definite win on the gunners side.

 

Sabers SHOULD be more powerful. Kaga, you make a valid point of needing skill for saber vs gunner , but what if its elite saberists vs. elite gunner? Your opinion would only work if the gunner was less than mediocre. Making the saber 1-3 hit kill would be a lot better.

 

 

Also, for those people whining and moaning about "Oh no! This game we totally ****ed up still doesn't look like the movies!!!" I'm gonna say it one last time:

 

 

 

 

 

****ING PLAY SP

 

 

 

 

don't ruin MP gameplay just because you have some wierd fetish for looking like luke vs. vader. As for the argument that how many jedi died to one hit of the saber, I suggest u go here.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

gone there yet?

 

 

 

 

 

its a STUPID MOVIE!!! How entertaining would a movie be if it was the climax of the movie, and one main character just lops the other guys head off? THIS IS A GAME fgeezus christ. Good games include fast gameplay, and making sabers as dangerous as they should be would definitely improve gameplay.

 

 

last word: try JK2++ @ http://www.wdonline.com

[IronJedi Kaga]

Originally posted by MrYepp

Let's sum it up:

 

 

Saber is as effective as a wiffle bat now. The only reason for me to use a saber in a game is for saber only games. Saber vs. Gun is definite win on the gunners side.

 

Sabers SHOULD be more powerful. Kaga, you make a valid point of needing skill for saber vs gunner , but what if its elite saberists vs. elite gunner? Your opinion would only work if the gunner was less than mediocre. Making the saber 1-3 hit kill would be a lot better.

 

 

 

Heavy stance can kill people in the same 1-3 hits that you mention above. I've stated that many times, yet people arguing "omg they nerfed backstab! Sabers are now useless!" seem to go blind whenever they come across that statement.

 

Outside of the backstab, all the rest of the normal moves and the special moves do the same amount of damage as they did in 1.03.

There's no reason to argue about saber changes from 1.03 to 1.04 unless all you did was go around backstabbing people, which alot of people who are complaining now, did in 1.03.

 

As for your battle of the elites, it still comes down to individual skill. The saberist can dodge till the gunner runs out of ammo, pull all the guns away from the gunner, push the shots back at the gunner, or take advantage of increased mobility using the saber offers and try to get in a close hit inbetween gun shots.

[Blank1234]

"As for your battle of the elites, it still comes down to individual skill. The saberist can dodge till the gunner runs out of ammo, pull all the guns away from the gunner, push the shots back at the gunner, or take advantage of increased mobility using the saber offers and try to get in a close hit inbetween gun shots."

 

dodge till the gunners run out of ammo? What poor excuse for a gunner have you been fighting against AFAIK, they lowered repeater ammo cost 2nd fire too... so that's some more ammo you need to dodge

 

With almost everyone and their mother running absorb, chances are pull is going to be a no go. And if you are in pull range you aren't going to be dodging squat

 

heh, hit inbetween gun shots. Have fun trading shots with any gun while you're in heavy stance, completely vulnerable to any type of weapon fire and pulling off a 3 hit combo before dying Or trade fire with a repeater/flak's 60-100+ damage with a fast stances 20-30 damage a swing

 

As for me, I've been ranting about saber damage and guns > saber since the games opening (well, saber damage ranting came with the first patch..... gun > all has been blatantly obvious since the beginning). A balance will more than likely never exsist... so oh well to that

 

Blank

[Twins of Doom]

Originally posted by IronJedi Kaga

 

I've played all the major game types saber only. As for ffa and team ffa, it's really hard to win if all one does is roll away and heal after every single hit. At some point a person playing ffa or team ffa is going to have to be inolved protracted battle with someone else, or he/she wont score points.

 

As for saber only CTF, played it once and have never played it since. Don't play it because the saber just isn't suited for gameplay. Your sitting there trying to catch someone who has a head star with a melee weapon, yet your both moving at the same speed. Basically your going to end up chasing the guy all the flag carrier all the way back to his/her home base (unless they get cut off). Once the enemy carrier gets back to base you then have to take on a superior number of defenders and the eemy flag carrier in order to get the flag back. Its not a JK2 problem, its the problem of trying to play CTF with a melee weapon. See how well UT CTF using nothing but the impact hammer, or how well tribes 2 CTF is using nothing but the shocklance. Its not the saber, its just the concept of using a melee weapon in ctf.

 

that's my point...in 1.03 it was ok, you could do damage fast...in 1.04 only if you use force speed do you stand a little of a chance (and still not much)

 

damn, popular topic....4 pages long....123 replies