Wes Marrakesh Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 MAKE THIS KICK @$$ THREAD STICKY! err... stuck.... VERY good thread with helpful tips. My comments even though i haven't even made one map yet : Unless you are going to make a sequel, try not to make lose ends, unless the lose end involves a very minor character (imperial officer, for example) After you play a level, you could think 'Why did this guy join forces with this other guy?' or in HL's case, 'Who the hell is g-man???' I think multiple endings (even only two) would make a level fun to play agian. For example, in Jedi Knight, you could either end up light side or dark side, and the bosses and cutscenes changed to reflect your decision. Give your map depth. If it is an office, you could have it so you could see into other rooms even if you can't get in them. It makes your map seem like it is actually a full office, not just a series of corridors and elevators with offices that only contain an enemy or items or something. Like someone else said: Make your level memorable. You know, just a touch or two, even just one good easter egg, makes it fun to play, and people will remember the map because of it. Immerse your level into the Universe it exists in: If it takes place during the Galactic Civil war, maybe you could include a character or scene from the era into your level, even if it is only a glimpse of a noticable character, or a small scene you could re-make as scripting. My 2 credits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Hehe... you tightarse. hey YOU are the one pimpin the fact that its free! I got the full version of Wise Installer Pro 4.02 for "free" and it kicks ASS! God I love it. i might try that too - i can get things "at a discount" I think multiple endings (even only two) would make a level fun to play agian. For example, in Jedi Knight, you could either end up light side or dark side, and the bosses and cutscenes changed to reflect your decision. yeah, thatd be cool feature Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aazell Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Hi all Nice thread! I've taken to writing SW intros recently. I've been looking into modifying the scrolling text at the beginning of the JO SP game and I'm getting there. Has anyone managed to edit this yet? Anyway. There's a definate art to writing these. I've written about 20 of the things so far just as a starter for the SP levels I had in mind. I think they really make a difference. They set the scene and really create the whole mood for each level. Too many times I've booted up a new SP level just to be dumped into a room with a bunch of storm troopers. I've yet to play an SP level that really satisfied apart from Ladder with dismemberment set to 3 (it's quite a challenge). I do get the feeling that a lot of people don't really understand the dynamic behind a decent SP level. The story is all. It's why we play the SP game in the first place. Yes there's action there but we can get that from MP at any time! I suggest that if you want to make a decent sp level then you should relate it to another Star Wars Game. I'm currently building an SP level based on Azzameen Station (can't remember how you spell it, I'll make sure it's correct by the time I'm finishing up) from X-Wing Alliance. It's a brilliant building and it'll be familiar to most of the PC gamers out there. Just make sure that you base it around somthing familiar to the player. I really didn't understand levels like Emperors Villa. I mean does Darth Sideos really look like he'd have a villa! He's a dark room at the top of a tower kinda guy! How about a Calamari Cruiser? Kuat Drive Yards? Go through as many SW games as possible and see what you can find..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted July 26, 2002 Author Share Posted July 26, 2002 Originally posted by Wes Marrakesh Unless you are going to make a sequel, try not to make lose ends, unless the lose end involves a very minor character (imperial officer, for example) After you play a level, you could think 'Why did this guy join forces with this other guy?' or in HL's case, 'Who the hell is g-man???' Regardless of sequel, I've always liked loose ends. Adds a sense of mystery to the level and let's the player use his own imagination to fill the gaps. I'm not planning to make a sequel to my level, but I'm deliberately leaving loose ends so that if the level is succesful enough, I can make one. But it will still stand as a good level in its own right, just in case I don't want to make a sequel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
aazell Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Yeah I love the fact that Tavion survives. It allows all us mappers to make a follow up........ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 Actually it was meant for an expansion pack to JO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted July 26, 2002 Share Posted July 26, 2002 i think usually its necessary to mix loose ends with common ends, you just have to give one of them priority in most times your sp level mirrors a certain plot, this way only a part of the life of the protagonist you are playing this plot or substory (a row of one or more events related to the level) should have a local end (which is mostly related to the final mission targets), if you dont plan to release further continuationmaps after a short perioide of time, that continue with the accomplishment of the overall main final end target of the player character the results of accomplished mission targets influence the life and attitude of participating characters (player character and npcs) and/or the form, style, composition of objects or places, which again can influence other (life-)parts of the corresponding universe ...Like a destroyed planet whose space traveling inhabitants will hate and revenge on the race for the destroyment of their planet this way, the results in one level can make the story of your next level, which is the most clever way to do to summarize it: your place or level plot has a final end your character and universe plot has a loose end. having levels with the same protagonist(s) but with completely different storyplots that don't correspond to each other, isn't a clever way of creating plausible parts of a universe, people wont like them as much as continuation levels that tell you an ever developing story Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted July 28, 2002 Author Share Posted July 28, 2002 This thread has been completely ruined... replies are just appearing in the middle of it. I'm thinking of compiling everything here into an article and sending it into JKII.net, what does everyone think about that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
volrathxp Posted July 28, 2002 Share Posted July 28, 2002 seems this isn't the only thread to be ruined AK. I agree on making one big article. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted July 29, 2002 Share Posted July 29, 2002 jep i also think its the best to recycle the thread into a new form otherwise newbies will become confused with the form this thread has at the moment and who knows, maybe the one or other level designer will remember the advices while creating or planning their maps Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 just another idea popped into my head while reading something about max payne if you do some voice recording for your map, mod or whatever then why not giving your own character sayings some more attention in some other reply i said to give your character some rocking sayings of the funny nature but if you are able, you should intensify it instead of showing the history/life of the player character via readme file or cutscene (outer view), it could be told during the gameplay like the player character is talking to oneself (monologue). If the player character sees something or someone, he/she already knows about, the character voice could be turned on. Like meeting a known person in a nightclub and then talking about the person to complete old memories, inner voice: "mmh wasn't he the pilot who shot me 6 years ago where i was fighting in the service of jabba the hut to take revenge on the bold chewbacca for the lack of respect to jabbas followers. mmhhh yeah he reminds on that person, doubt he will remember me..." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 Yeah.. that's what I'm sort of planning to do for my level... I'm thinking of adding a Blade Runner style past tense narration from the main character... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 do i have already spoken about shadows? looking all the recent screenshots of games like doom3 or farcry (see the links), i'll have to come up with this, can't resist recent doom3 shots: http://www.tothegame.com/screenshot.asp?screens=10224 recent farcry shots: http://www.tothegame.com/screenshot.asp?screens=10229 on the last link take a focus on the indoor screenshots, outdoor wont matter here if you are skilled enough, try to implement some awesome looking shadow effects, the player could get a few adrenalin rushes while discovering the map, which is a good way to increase the overall fun of the map. Good lighting that results in a lot of spooky shadow effects is probably fitting into maps where you rather fight against quality opponents than masses of enemies. Think about how your eyes are reacting to light and dark areas. Coming into a bright lightened room and then going into a dull lightened room with lots of shadows, your eyes need some time to get used to the lower brightness. At this moment you can surprise the player (announce the surprise with some triggered music, reminding you of mounting tension curves) with a clever positioned enemy or some kind of event. I like it to be scared out of my skin people who played avp2 should know what im talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 Agreed on all accounts... personally, I think that lighting is just as important as architecture.. you can convey mood and atmosphere much easier, and usually much more effective with lighting. You can also make crap architecture look Godly with JO's lighting... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 I can't wait till ydnar is done with q3map2 JO support. Faster compiles, more reliable auto-cull, and vastly improved lighting. Hmm... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted August 1, 2002 Author Share Posted August 1, 2002 Really? Excellent.. how much faster? Is it a friendly Windows application or another DOS program that requires a load of extensions? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 1, 2002 Share Posted August 1, 2002 DOS program I think, but a HELL of a lot faster. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 jep its definitely another DOS programm but its extensions are already explored function wise, just take a look into the quake3world-forums. Most things are described, no big experimenting, .. won't be any hurdles for you, Akpiggot and with nice features like lightmap export/import, shadow smoothing, better vertex lighting, a lot of bugfixes (ever saw shadows on planes where no shadows should have been? -> http://www.planetquake.com/nike/board/lightmap2.jpg ), wider limits on things like MAX_MAP_BRUSHSIDES for larger maps, weird alpha shadows (http://www.shadowspawn.net/temp/shadows4.jpg and look the colored shadows here http://www.shadowspawn.net/temp/shot0066b.jpg) and many many customizability options if mappers should dream a dream, it must be because of this little application btw, not sure but there also could be a windows interface available Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 damn you really love them shadows they are pretty sweet tho, are those in q3 engine (will it work in JO)? yeah yeah past tense narration is cool Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Alpha shadows KICK ASS, I LOVE alpha shadows! Yes, those are for Q3, they'll work in JO once Q3map2 support is finished in a few week's time. EEE! I CAN'T WAIT! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AKPiggott Posted August 4, 2002 Author Share Posted August 4, 2002 Sounds good... I'll be sure to keep my ear to the ground about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emon Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 I'll post a thread about it when it's released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Drakewl Posted August 8, 2002 Share Posted August 8, 2002 mmh have to give this a bump some thoughts about general texture work when texturing different sections of your map don't get to addicted to texture variety/colors. Looking into a room with green walls, a brownish roof and a blacknwhite checker ground isnt an enjoyment for the eyes. Also it looks sometimes dull using only greyish textures, you can always add colorful elements with all this detail stuff like pipes having nice shaders, lamps that emit not too high saturated colorlights, blinking computer interfaces and all of these elements. Designers who want to make their own texture sets, generally create one or two base textures of the same color and style and then add different details to them so you dont have too much repeating texturework. Adding cracks, lattices, small lamps, buttons, skirting board, flaps, etc. into the textures, that you then can put in between the common non-detail textures (base textures of the set), will make the look more suitable for a plausible environment. Even thoughts about build materials for specific rooms won't be a waste of time. Huge hangars are often made of metallic materials that have a greyisch color with elements of white, blue and black. Rooms for the government/management with people that are used to comfort will often have more expensive materials in not so commonly used colors and shapes. Do you remember one of the first cutscenes where kyle is talking with the white fashioned woman (sorry, forgot her name ) on coruscant in a room with red colored walls and some plants? This room looks more luxorious cuz its for a person with a high rank in the community. I.E. a fine table made of rare wood strengthens the image of a powerful person, not just one of the noob tables made of low quality ore that every imperial officer owns ok enough about this another point i would like to mention is again about plausibility in some maps i have seen large rooms with doors that just a small stormtrooper can go through. How did the AT-ST or other big machines come into the room, where i see no big hangar door. I doubt that some ingenieurs had the patience to construct it directly within the room. Or did i miss something and some genious has already invented beam technology in the starwars universe, hehe? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MilesTeg Posted November 15, 2002 Share Posted November 15, 2002 bumb because I liked that thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
idontlikegeorge Posted November 19, 2002 Share Posted November 19, 2002 back from the dead Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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