Thanks a lot, Whiners

[Talon_of_BHG]

Technobot those are boring servers anyway try saberdamagescale set to 4 its much more fun

[Spider AL]

Caster: YES! The holy JO war is nigh!

 

 

Technobot:

 

spider al, how does being allowed to be struck with a supposedly lethal weapon MULTIPLE times require MORE skill? with this patch, I can screw up several times in a duel and rest well knowing I won't be killed.

 

If you don't like the damage scale, play on different servers with different blocking and damage settings. As for skill, the man with the most skill will reach 10 points first. Fact of life.

 

we can't use the default settings because most people hate them, wait, we can call up Spider AL and he'll tell us what to go with because he makes many posts on the Jedi Knight forums, says he's intelligent, therefore he is!

 

Good idea! Actually, if people were interested in starting a tournament, they could do worse than speak to players like me, who have spent a rather long time playing. We know the score, and we're much better advisors than tedious and childish whiners. In my opinion, x4 is a little too heavy, as under default settings, overhead heavy stances can still cause a lot of damage if 100% connection with the opponent is achieved.

 

Perhaps you were a backswing fiend, who enjoyed being able to kill someone with one hit, without having to time it correctly, or indeed aim it. In 1.04, aim is needed. Sabre combat has improved markedly because of this, and I kill people with a single red stance strike, regularly, on servers with saberDamageScale set at 1. Takes skill, though.

 

One last thing: calling people who DON'T agree with your viewpoint "silly, uninteresting people"

 

Yep.

 

and "unintelligent" (sic)

 

Wrong, young man. I never used the word "unintelligent" in that post. Now, if you're going to quote something, only quote what was actually said. Making things up doesn't work, from a quoting point of view. Word to the wise.

 

Now I call people who don't appreciate the improvements that 1.04 has made, and just whine about it instead of doing something useful, silly and uninteresting. and I'm not interested in such people. I'm not interested in their opinions, their viewpoints or what they think JO is about. I don't give a hoot about them, frankly. And I'm quite happy not to give a hoot.

 

but you must be one of the game programmers to take it this seriously, hmmm?

 

Hmm, what makes you think I take the game seriously? I certainly enjoy it. What I take seriously, is whining people who, if they get half a chance, will ruin my fun, and the fun of every other worthy player, by badgering Raven incessantly until they turn JO back into the piece of excrement that was 1.03. I'm truly glad they've hinted there will be no more patches. Quit while you're ahead Raven.

 

Sorry dood,

 

Hrhrhrhr. Ahrhrhr.

 

then again, it's a lot easier to call people boring and stupid when you can take solace in knowing you'll never have to do it to their face, and can hide behind a computer screen and an IP address. internet cowardice brings out the worst in all of us, doesn't it?

 

Ooooh Internet cowardice eh. And what would you do if we were face to face? You know, whenever people online start to lose an argument the first thing they come out with is: "IF I NEW WERE U LIVED ID BEET U UP!!!11" Even though half the time they're fourteen year old overweight misfits who couldn't beat their way out of a paper bag.

 

And this little gem of yours is similar enough for me to respond in the textbook manner... grow up son.

[technobot]

Ah, I knew you would respond, and I waited with bated breath.

 

First of all, by implication, you said that those who didn't like 1.04 are unintelligent, since those who DO like the patch are quite clearly intelligent.

 

How does enjoying an iteration of A VIDEOGAME have anything to do with intelligence? I'm sorry "son", you're just advertising your age by making this association.

 

"Holy wars have been fought over comparable concerns." Wow you're a sociologists nightmare just waiting to happen, aren't you? Thank God you will never be in a position of power, because since you are willing to take a debate over a VIDEOGAME to "the next level" you would nuke an entire city for not wearing plaid, don't tell me you don't wear plaid

 

Umm... I'm a pacifist. I don't condone violence especially when discussing something as mundane as, there's that word again, a VIDEOGAME. However, you come off like half the, ahem, really "popular" /sarcasm, guys at my high school who would talk trash through rumour and innuendo, but never say it straight to their victim's face. I wouldn't beat you up in a bar if you talked this sh!t to me to my face, I would however buy you a Shirley Temple and walk away laughing, and go back to meeting girls.

 

There's no way I can prove my age, just like there's no way you can prove yours to me however, some hints:

 

I'm in university, on my way to grad school.

I've already worked for five years, in the IT industry, so unfortunately, I'm old, especially compared to some of my classmates

All my friends are married, and I'm just a black sheep.

 

You didn't need to know this, but sorry my friend, jumping to the conclusion that someone who DISAGREES with your point of view, is automatically stupid or even worse, younger than you, is usually a sign of immaturity, or gasp, low intelligence. I'm accusing you of neither, but the symptoms do exist.

 

And finally, um you are taking this seriously, because you angrily responded to my post almost immediately, where I waited a day, which just proves I'm only semi-serious about this drek, but serious nonetheless

 

RE: 1.04:

 

Pivoting removed = good

Backsweep blockable = good

Drain upgraded = good

Quicker recovery from knockdown = good

Low saberdamage = bad

Spammed blue/yellow combos = bad

Kick as the easiest option = bad

Slower DEFAULT saber fights = bad

 

I still like 1.03 better, I have my reasons, yes I was a pull/backsweeper, but yes I can still win duels in 1.04, it's just longer, yawn.

[Nobodi Kenobi]

Here is something I posted on another thread as my farewell thread.

 

If you actually read it I think it addresses a lot of differing points of view, but agrees on one thing regarding this video game:

 

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

This is going to be my last post on this forum for a while because I've actually un-installed JK II from my hard drive on purpose.

 

The reason?

 

I am not interested in the MP portion of this game anymore and it has nothing to do with the people playing it, but the game itself and the patches that Raven keeps cracking out that keep destroying - Yes, I said DESTROYING - What was once a great game and leaving NOTHING behind but a flashy, kiddie-based game with no substance or skill whatsoever.

 

This has everything to do with the 1.4 patch and previous patches.

 

For a little background on myself I am a fairly good player. I'm an average skilled player.

 

I'm not "leet" or Clan or Ladder level, but I used to have fun in all forms of gameplay except CTF (never played it with JK II) and actually, my specialty was NF Duels where I could go through ten people (5 client max list) in one sitting.

 

Now, I suppose I "suck" to all you "leet" and competitive players out there... But the fact is I was having FUN no matter if I lost or won. Especially, in dueling where skill really was tested and it was one on one in every sense of the word.

 

In fact, before Dueling, I was always "afraid" to go one on one with someone in another game (like CS, Quake, etc.) because I knew I would get my arse kicked and end up looking like a fool and probably bore the Hell out of the other person. However, with JK II, that "fear" was taken away because the lightsaber actually put me and that other skilled player on equal ground so to speak vs. just who had the faster trigger finger or best scripted config.

 

And again, with JK II, I still was having fun even if I lost.

 

Not anymore.

 

The patches have completely ruined this game and they KEEP ruining the game by taking away all the tools in the arsenal and making them weaker which of course limits the options - aka SKILL - You NEED to use them effectively.

 

1.4 is no exception.

 

While it nerfed BS and Backswing... WHY SHOULD IT NERF ANYTHING????

 

Saber damage in general, for ALL styles, has been nerfed to hell through previous patches and like many have said, there is NO use for the saber anymore regardless of what gametype you're playing besides dueling and even there, there is huge discrepancies regarding how long it should take to kill someone depending on moves (blocking, three or four direct hits and they DON'T die???)

 

And the saber is what attracted 99.9% of JK/SW fans to this game.

 

And yes, I know there are various Mods and cvar/svr settings to tweak the game to be what you want it to be... But the fact is the BASE GAME that was put out has mutated into something that goes beyond even player preference in my opinion -- The lightsaber being nerfed a major part of that mutation.

 

I can of course go play on 1.2 servers, or 1.3. or whathaveyou... But WHY SHOULD I -- Or others -- If we want the fixes (the accidental deaths by lightsaber touches) the subsequent patches addressed?

 

Simple. WE SHOULDN'T.

 

There should be ONE base MP game standard that can allow for minor tweaking of player perferences and that's it. Not fifty Mods, three servers settings, etc, etc

 

So, in closing, I hope to one day come back to JK II if I find that the patches have restored it to at least a level to where it is FUN...

 

Because I'm not having any fun anymore.

 

And while this may kill some people to admit this, I represent a large portion of why people play games and who games are primarily marketed to.

 

Peace

 

P.S. - I now await the flaming by all the "leet" players in bidding me "good riddance, you unskilled Noob. You're part of the reason Raven nerfed the game in the first place. STFU and leave you then!"

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

 

Flame me all you want. That's fine.

 

Again, if you read it, this is actually addressed to Raven more than anybody else so I don't think this is meant to flame any particular player or style of player as well.

[FatalStrike]

Spider Al why is it you think you know better than everyone? 1.04 is a watered down version of the original. Think about it, the only real difference between this version and the original 1.02 is that everything is weaker and blocking is mindless and easy. So defend it all you want but please lose the smug tone of your writing. It only serves to piss people off and will never help your already weak argument. Word to the wise.

[ryudom]

the only thing "weaker" now is the bs. dfa is just as strong, exept you can't turn. the patch is fine, now shut up. if you want more damage, there's a var i'm sure you know you can use

[Russk Rijann]

1.03 SUX!!!!1111!!!!!!oneone!!!!!!

 

1.04 ROX!!!11111oneoneone11!!1!

 

just about sums up my point of view.....disagree with my view and suffer being called a noob for all eternity!!111!!!oneone!

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by ryudom

the only thing "weaker" now is the bs. dfa is just as strong, exept you can't turn. the patch is fine, now shut up. if you want more damage, there's a var i'm sure you know you can use

 

Ok I don't know what game you are playing but in the one I play many things are weaker or less useful. First Sabers are weaker and yes while you can change this, the very fact that you can change this has taken away consitancy of play, forcing player to test things everywhere they go.

 

Other things that are weaker

Back stab is weaker

Back spin is weaker

Force Pull is weaker

Force drain is weaker

Force Heal is weaker

Force Grip is arguably weaker

Force Rage is weaker

 

And now for the things that have been weakened as in made less useful

DFA

Foot speed is slower

Heavy stance is slower

Medium spin is slower

Light stance lunge annot be done in the air

Backwards roll is shorter

 

Also you have a super block ability that allows you to make more miscalculations then before.

 

Basically just like I said A WATERED DOWN 1.02. Think of it as 1.02 lite.

 

I am sorry that I have insulted your precious 1.04 but if you are going to dispute my posts please take the time to THINK about what you are writing. Thanks

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by Russk Rijann

1.03 SUX!!!!1111!!!!!!oneone!!!!!!

 

1.04 ROX!!!11111oneoneone11!!1!

 

just about sums up my point of view.....disagree with my view and suffer being called a noob for all eternity!!111!!!oneone!

 

Thanks for your comments

[Spider AL]

by implication, you said that those who didn't like 1.04 are unintelligent

 

Implication's no good son. You used quotation marks. You put quotes in quotes. Don't do it again!

 

don't tell me you don't wear plaid

 

Dead men don't wear plaid. And if the best you can come up with is to focus on my "holy wars" chuckle, you're even more lacking than you initially appeared to be.

 

... but never say it straight to their victim's face.

 

I'm saying it as close to your face as possible. I think your opinion is foolish. I think that your ilk miss their backswing and can't be bothered to learn how to kill people quickly in 1.04, because it takes more skill. I think you and your type are childish whiners, who caused the near-ruination of the game in 1.03.

 

I wouldn't beat you up in a bar if you talked this sh!t to me to my face,

 

That is the only absolutely correct thing you have said in this thread.

 

I would however buy you a Shirley Temple

 

What sort of bars do you go to? No, no, on second thoughts I don't want to know.

 

All my friends are married, and I'm just a black sheep.

 

Maybe you should go back to "meeting girls" then. Guffaw.

 

jumping to the conclusion that someone who DISAGREES with your point of view, is automatically stupid or even worse, younger than you, is usually a sign of immaturity, or gasp, low intelligence.

 

Mmm no, I think it's a sign that I've been lurking around a range of JO forums since before the game's release, and I've grown so contemptuous of people who share your outlook on what the game should be like, that I have no respect for them, no time for them and no compunction about conveying my feeling to them: Because some people have this ludicrous and tenuous idea, I consider them to be sub-normal. Yes, it's true. I stand by it.

 

you angrily responded to my post

 

Noo son, you misunderstand. Don't worry, I'm not angry with you. I think your ideas are a load of dragon poo, but I am not angry with you.

 

yes I was a pull/backsweeper, but yes I can still win duels in 1.04, it's just longer,

 

I knew that you were. Didn't I say so? I am proven right once again.

 

As for your lack of speed at winning duels, that's because you became reliant on one silly, obviously overpowered move, that reduced the game to something manageable for weekend warriors. People didn't have to practice to use the pull/backswing, which is why the game was reduced to such a darned game of pong. Now, if you want to win more than you lose, you will have to practice! Mwahahhar. Welcome to Skillsville CA, no vagrants allowed.

 

1.04 is a watered down version of the original. Think about it, the only real difference between this version and the original 1.02 is that everything is weaker and blocking is mindless and easy.

 

Agreed, Fatalstrike. 1.02 was my favourite game ever. The reason I love 1.04 so much, is because it's not 1.03. 1.03 was the version of satan. 1.04 is more like 1.02 than 1.03 was. And also, I grew to hate jumping lunges, hovering Jedi, perpetual backswingers, pull/backswing competitions et al.

 

Don't get me wrong. I won two UK tournaments using 1.03, I was as good at pull/backswing as the next man. I didn't like it though. it was stupid.

 

Sure, it'd be nice if Force Healing and grip were restored a little bit, but the most important thing to me, is that the two sides are BALANCED and that there are no silly, overpowered moves that allow utter and complete newbies to get kills they're not entitled to. Nothing against newbies, I was one once, but I worked to get kills. Not very hard, but it took effort, yes. Hence.

[technobot]

Wow, Spider AL, I'm going to post one last response because you are beyond rationality

 

As close to my face as possible? Good God, man you don't even know me, you don't where I live, yet you hide behind the anonymity of the internet, behind a monitor that could be half a continent away and you still insist that you're being manly in doing this basically to someone's face? This is exactly what I'm talking about, you're the new breed of internet cowards, hurling racial epithets in chat rooms all over the world while your pimple faced friends (all 2 of them) guffaw behind your shoulder laughing at your wit, or lack thereof. (and dead men don't wear plaid? you're a walking cliche)

 

Additionally, your debating style is very weak and indicative of half of a high school education. While you seem to excel at cutting and posting bits of other people's replies, all you really do is keep going over their points, and saying they're stupid because they don't agree with you. Then you'll pick one of the retorts and use the "if that's all you can use line". What's next, calling me a chink? Or bring on the mother jokes, you were probably saving that for last?

 

You are very angry, very bitter, and devoid of a social life. I suffer from none of these flaws. While I get off on going out, meeting new people, and not spending too much time in these forums (by your post count I can see that you are very much addicted to these forums, son) I won't begrudge you your choice of "alternative" lifestyles. Bars that you frequent... given your predilcition for flaming people you don't know, I would venture you like flaming bars, I'm sure you catch my drift.

 

It is your opinion that is foolish, go try to make friends in the real world, judging by your posts that will be a lifetime of futility for you, but it doesn't hurt to try.

 

BTW, if I had to, I would EASILY kick your ass in a fight, especially since, how do I say this, I know someone who knows you, WINK, and you aren't that big, you aren't that bright, and you aren't very sociable. Enjoy your fun in these forums since I've been told this is what you do in most of your free time (which I am also told you have a lot of).

 

If you're still "man" enough, leave me your alias and a neutral server to play on, and then be gracious and post how a member of backsweepers anon beat you handily in a duel. No excuses after you lose, child!

 

Remember, while you may fool your two friends, and a handful of automotons on this forum, you don't fool the truly intelligent, and as your posts would indicate, you have some serious social issues which force you to vent your frustration (sexual?) out on these forums. Enjoy the fast and furious world of amateur non-competitive videogaming, and good luck in finding more drones in your crusade. Your opinions label you as a borderline soon to be card carrying member fascist, since you don't seem to like the dissenting votes. But as a I said before, the world will be spared your drivel in two ways: you will never amount to anything of importance, and therefore will never wield power (except that which you believe you have in these forums), and more importantly, you will never produce offspring, and for that we can all be thankful.

[FatalStrike]

Technobot and Spider Al

 

No offense to either of you but you are picking a fist fight on a STAR WARS GAME FORUM, do you know how gay that sounds! Do you want to be laughed at by everyone?

 

 

Thank you

[technobot]

but but he started it! LOL j/k

 

alright, you're right, but sorry FatalStrike, I hate guys like this because the value of a pluralistic society is:

 

everyone has differing opinions, which creates conflict in a sense but ensures no one group can wield too much power. the inability to admit that other people may have differing opinions is a sign of ignorance. most of you live in America (I know not all) which is in theory a democracy, and pluralistic in nature. if you all had the same ideas you'd be communists, and the Soviet Union proved just how flawed that style of government is.

 

I don't like the new patch. my best friend loves the new patch. we discuss it, but we don't call each other stupid just because our opinions differ.

[Spider AL]

My my, that was quick! As I recall you tried to imply that the speed of my last response showed my lack of a social life... what does this alacrity say about you? are you taking a hiatus from your constant pursuit to "meet girls?" Hrhrhrhr. Ahrhrhr.

 

As close to my face as possible? Good God, man you don't even know me, you don't where I live, yet you hide behind the anonymity of the internet

 

I'm doing it as close to your face as is possible son. I don't want to know you, or where you live. What is this, some sort of challenge? Do you want to meet me in real life? If so, you and your biker's outfit and thick, beardless moustache will be most dissapointed. If I ever want to socialise with fools, the local Jehova's Witnesses barracks is barely three blocks away.

 

Additionally, your debating style is very weak and indicative of half of a high school education.

 

Ohh really? Well same to you! When you provide evidence for your blandly sweeping and baseless, feeble insults, you'll get a more in-depth response.

 

You are very angry, very bitter, and devoid of a social life.

 

Hmm, an accurate appraisal I thin... Wait a minute! Bleh, again, an immature and frankly laughable attempt at getting up close and personal. I have to tell you, your frenzied and desperate attempts to enrage me will fall upon deaf ears... You could call me anything from a 'raincoat wearing perv' to a 'poxed unicycling nun' and it would have no effect. In case you've forgotten, I find people like you "uninteresting." If it were anyone else, I might even find your fumbling gibberish amusing, but as it is, I feel neither highs nor lows when reading your posts. Meh.

 

What's next, calling me a chink?

 

Erm... Are you chinese then?

 

BTW, if I had to, I would EASILY kick your ass in a fight

 

Mr. Mature just got off the bus. Bwaaahahaha. I wonder what's next... 'I KNOW KUNGFOO! I WATCHDE ALL OF TEH MATRICX AND JET LEE FILUMS 2 AND NOW I NOW KARATEE!!!111" Well I tell you what, since I'm not there why don't you beat up your monitor instead. keep some band-aids handy. Ahrhrhrhr.

 

It is your opinion that is foolish

 

I see... there appears to be *gasp* a PATTERN here! I say something, and then technobot parrots it back to me verbatim because he can't even think of an original wording for the ideas he nicks!

 

/me snaps his fingers

 

Darn, wish I'd noticed that before.

 

Ahem, Mr. Technobot, you are the finest arachnid I have ever seen. Your legs are furry and your eight eyes are bright and shiny. Nobody can catch flies like you can.

 

Ahahahr. My trap... is set...

 

/me gloats

 

I know someone who knows you

 

Well, my brother-in-law is a social worker, so it's quite feasible...

 

Hmm. Last paragraph is very interesting, there's only one way to counter it:

 

You liked 1.03 best, people who liked 1.03 best are drooling toddler-creatures with the skill and ability of par-boiled escargot! Har har har.

 

And I tell you what, meet me on the blueyonder duel servers sometime and we'll duke it out, if, that is, you're man enough! gaming.blueyonder.co.uk Leave your ideal time with my PA and we'll sort something out. Blaahahahaa.

 

In the meantime, go back to "meeting girls." Maybe you'll find a blind one. Hrhrhrhr. Better take some chloroform with you just in case though.

 

Oh, and GOD BLESS DEMOCRACY! Goldarnit, bless it! And down with those commie twits, down with em I say! Get off mah porch! Maw!..

[Homosexual Ewok]

Spider AL does have a point; saber combat has become more of a "know how to use it or lose" game type now.

I won't argue that in NF duels, if you don't know when/how/where to place your swings, you will be beaten.

With the elimination of the "wonder moves" you really have to know what you are doing as opposed to flying at someone with a DFA, or running around backwards trying to land a backslash.

 

 

But that only applies to NF duels.

 

Try those calculated well-placed saber swings in a Full Force duel and you will be pull+kicked to death and die in about 15 seconds.

If anyone doubts this, please accept this open challenge, I will be more than glad to show you just how weak sabers are in FF duels.

 

FFA?

Same thing.

The whole point of FFA is to rack up as many kills as you can, as quickly as possible.

Now you may be the greatest saber-wielding player on the planet, but three guys blasting rockets and zapping lightning at you will result in nothing more than a burnt crispy fried Jedi.

Before those "cheap super moves" allowed a player to stand a chance against multiple foes in a FFA game using nothing more than a saber.

 

Now with v1.04, can you honestly say that running around using only 30-60 damage saber swings (and highly blockable at that) is a faster method of dispatching foes than shooting a rocket into a crowd of 4-5 players?

 

NF duels greatly benefited from this patch, other game types like CTF, FF duels and FFA have basically made sabers a "last ditch weapon" when all else fails.

I can't see how that can be called "balance".

 

Say all you want about fun, honor, whatever, the bottom line is, 99% of all players play to win.

If I can kick you to death faster than you can kill me with a saber, why use a saber myself?

If I can kill you with a gun faster, why use the saber?

Saber combat could be a true test of skill in this patch, but the fact that the overwhelming majority of players wish to beat you as fast as possible, it makes this impossible in anything short of a "perfect world".

[Spider AL]

Try those calculated well-placed saber swings in a Full Force duel and you will be pull+kicked to death and die in about 15 seconds.

 

Well that's why they're called Full Force duels. The Force powers play as much of a role as the sabre. As for FFA, depends on the situation, don't it Ewok. I thoroughly enjoy sabre fighting people during an FFA... but if I feel that my opponent has more armour/more health/a low enough ping to negate my own counter-kicks, I'll shoot the bunny.

 

Asking whether sabres are useful in FFA is like asking whether a sniper rifle is useful in FFA. The answer is of course YES, but not ALL the time. The sabre has a lot in common with the disruptor/sniper rifle in fact. They're both specialist weapons, most useful at different ranges. If you're at loooong range, the sniper rifle's great. With a full stock of ammo, on a map like Nar streets, I've racked up up to nine, ten kills, when the fodder refused to bunch together ready for my rocket launcher. And same with the sabre. At close range, nothing will stop me from ramming the glowstick through my hapless foe's cranium.

 

Now, I'm both a dedicated NF and FF duellist, as well as a FFA enthusiast and I have ALWAYS maintained that a Jedi with a rocket launcher, a sniper rifle AND a lightsabre, will be more dangerous than a Jedi with only a lightsabre. Let's face it, we all play as jedi in FFA, in duels, in CTF, we ALL PLAY AS JEDI. Whether we're using a gun or a glowstick, it doesn't matter, we play jedi characters because we have force powers. Carrying a gun doesn't make you a merc, and carrying a sabre doesn't make you the only Jedi on the server, as some people think.

 

NF duels greatly benefited from this patch, other game types like CTF, FF duels and FFA have basically made sabers a "last ditch weapon" when all else fails.

 

But Ewok, if the lightsabre was so damned powerful that it was more valuable than any gun or any force power, then every game would be NF sabres. I don't want to play NF sabres when I go to a FF guns server. I want to use ALL the weapons. The weaps are pretty well balanced at the moment, in that there IS a time to use the lightsabre, there IS a time to use the rocket launcher, and there IS a time to use the disruptor.

 

EVERY weapon can be countered though. The RL is useless against some pushy, fleeing opponents, as most of the time one only has six rockets anyway. I know this, because I push rockets away all the time. So do you, I'll wager. Does that mean the rocket launcher is useless though? Heck no! You can try to get in closer, or you can try to target people who are unaware of you, or you can time your shots carefully to cause splash damage near to your pushy foe.

 

Just because there are counter attacks to different weapons, doesn't mean they're useless. The sniper rifle, all you have to do is face your foe, then blocking is 95%. The repeater and flechette are very strong, but the flechette is easy to dodge and block, and the repeater concussion bolts can be pushed away too. Does that make these three guns useless? No! There's a time and a place to use them, and if they don't work too well in one instance, we change to different weapons!

 

The sabre isn't all powerful, I'm GLAD it's not all-powerful, it was never all-powerful in Jedi Knight or any version of Jedi Outcast and the game would make no sense if it was all powerful.

 

If there's any problem with 1.04 at all, it's the fact that drain, grip and heal are still over-nerfed. But that's not THAT bad. It's certainly better than pull/backswing jedi-pong, which was 1.03, let's face it.

 

For a sabres only game,... there are countless sabres-only servers.

 

For a force AND sabres game, FF duel servers.

 

For a guns, force AND sabres game, FF guns FFA servers.

 

Now, there have been times when I've wanted to use my sabre a bit more in FFA... and I promptly left the guns server, and played on a sabres n' force FFA server. There have been times where I got tired of using force powers to facilitate my whackage of people's craniums... so I promptly left the sabres FFA server I was on, and joined a NF duel server.

 

As much as everyone would like it to be, the game can't be everything at once. It can't be everything to all people, either.

[Homosexual Ewok]

You are right, nothing should be all-powerful.

But look at the polls, or simply ask most players what attracted them to this game as opposed to the 90 million other FPS type games out there.

 

The saber will be the number one answer.

Sure the Star wars stuff is great, and the Force powers are cool, but it always comes down to the saber being the preferred weapon, if for no other reason than it is the sole thing that separates this game from the rest of the titles out there.

 

 

Sabers should be the primary means of a successful offense in this game, with Force kills and guns being the "alternative" choices.

 

Right now it's the other way around.

Yes, you still are able to kill an opponent with a saber, but if you really look at the effectiveness and speed of the various methods for dispatching someone, sabers are not the most efficient choice.

They were at one time though. Hence threads like this.

[technobot]

sigh, AL, poor poor AL...

 

you say you've got more but you've peaked, child...

 

please respond to this, I won't respond to your inane chatter anymore, you've proven everything I need to know...

 

and you do seem to make a lot of posts, try leaving the house... love to chat, but I have things to do, like meeting "blind" girls (ooh that one stung, but if you only knew me it would make your situation seem that much more pathetic)

 

you're quite a catch from what I hear, if you're into the bottom of the barrel

[Spider AL]

Sabers should be the primary means of a successful offense in this game, with Force kills and guns being the "alternative" choices.

 

Mmm, you're getting a little bit close to "this is my idea of what the game should be like," there. Realistically, if the sabre was as powerful as you would like it to be, there would be, as I said before, no point in having guns or force powers at all. Just as in 1.03, since pull/backswing was so powerful, there was no point in using anything else, realistically.

 

Now, I'd like you to imagine what I've imagined: A game where all the guns are about as much use as the DEMP. A game where all the force powers have been nerfed to the level that heal has. So what do you do? Use your sabre most of the time.

 

It'd be NF sabres FFA. There are plenty of servers like that out there as things stand. I feel that a lot of star wars fans in the community have preconceived ideas about what it means to be a Jedi... I've always loved the sabres, but I always loved the force too. I love ALL the game modes, and I love the sabres, the force powers and the guns...

 

What you're describing is a vast change, to erase ALL modes BUT NF sabres. Guns, force powers, can be disabled in isolation. The sabre damage can be ramped up. JO is diverse, and can be moulded into whatever you wish. I don't see the problem, personally. If the game itself became your own personal vision of what it should be, it would take away the fun of people who have another vision of what it should be. Now why would anyone want to do that? 1.03, as I've said, stemmed from the desire of certain elements in our community to make JO something that only they could enjoy. It alienated the CTF and gunning community, which is only now recovering.

 

If I wanted to play a game say, CTF with only jump, and stormtrooper rifles, and sabre defence and offence, it's easy! I get some mates, and I set up a server, perhaps with Barrysworld bookables, to those exact settings. And indeed, I have done similar odd settings in the past. And that's how I scratch that itch. I suggest that everyone with a similar desire, do the same, instead of wishing that the whole game matched those settings.

 

Or make a mod, if you can't find the settings you like in JO vanilla. Etz is making a mod because he feels that JO could be more compact, more jedi-like, and good on him. I agree with his ideas to the letter... but if he wanted to change JO itself so that EVERYONE would have to play his version, I'd be opposed to the idea.

 

You say that polls would show the sabre to be the most popular reason why people bought the game...

 

Well it was the reason I bought the game! I love the whole Jedi thing. But I love the "Kyle Katarn, mercenary" thing too, so I enjoy guns FFA as well! When I want to be a vanilla Jedi, there is always always a server that can accomodate me. If there isn't one, I make one!

 

sabers are not the most efficient choice. They were at one time though.

 

Heh, when pull/backswing was in vogue, yes, and it was imbalanced and terrible. In 1.02, a good aim still had a slight edge on a stickwaver however. Now, in 1.04, servers can have different sabre damage scales! All you have to do, is find one, make one or ask a sympathetic server admin to alter their one.

 

Now don't get me wrong, I respect your idea of fun, and I respect your idea of what a Jedi game should be like. But JO is here, it's malleable, it can be shaped into myriad forms without resorting to changing the whole game.

 

And Technomuppet: Still no answer as to the sabre duel? Or are you chickening out? Full of vim, vigour and testosterone, weren't you. Run out, has it? hrhrhrhr. Ahrhrhr. Remember, you challenged me. /me wags his finger

 

but if you only knew me it would make your situation seem that much more pathetic

 

If I knew you, son, I have little doubt that I would no longer pity congenitally mentally retarded individuals, knowing that in the world, there is at least one person worse off in the intellect department.

 

I won't respond to your inane chatter anymore

 

Hmm, that's because you're running away like a scared little girlie, which you wish you were. Hee hee! Ahhh come back soon kiddiewink, I need a good smirk.

[[HoT]Dark-Sith]

I always wondered why forums didn't really attract my attention, and now i know...

 

Regardless of how old any of you are, or how valid the point is that may be put forward, or how much people *think* they know, it always ends up as some sort of match to see who can outwit the other, time after time

 

This thread, for example, was started out by someone who wanted to voice THEIR opinion on what they thought of v1.04, then, on the first reply no less, someone was calling him "retarded"

 

Ok, so maybe the way he presented the idea wasn't great...

 

Thanks to all those who whined so loud about backstabbing and ass-fighting and got the brilliant minds at Raven to ruin the game with the 1.04 patch.

 

But it does have some truth to it, as 1.02 was THE best version of the game, full stop

 

Ok, so i didn't neccesarily like v1.03, but after a while, just as you were getting used to avoiding the backstabbing, and finding a way to counter it (something i was getting increasingly adept at) the game is once again changed because someone didn't like the fact that they were beaten by a backstab/DFA/force power

 

If this continues, then it WILL end up with 90 minute long duels to see who is the more "skilled" or "1337"

 

The fact that this is a game that we are all playing, and NOT real life, means that i play this GAME to have fun, not to see who can kill 50 people in less than 20 minutes, or who has managed to time all of the moves so that they can spin around three times, followed by their chosen stances special attack while inflicting the most damage

 

Last time i checked, games were something that were played to get away from real life, not to add more annoyance to it by calling people "retarded" for playing a game the way they wanted to play it

 

(and before anyone starts with the "Ooh, agreeing with someone who doesn't like 1.04, you MUST have been a pull/bs spammer" I rarely did, rarely do and rarely will use bs, because i've never seen it as being such a great idea to turn your back on someone during a fight)

[Homosexual Ewok]

Spider AL while it is true we all have our vision of what would be best, I am by no means saying everyone should conform to my vision of what the game should be.

 

Actually, in a way you made my point.

 

There should be a balance between guns and sabers where each has its strengths and weaknesses.

Look no further than v1.02 for a good example of this.

Sabers were the most effective weapon up close; guns were best used from a distance. Sure you could close the gap between you and your opponent rather fast, but he had enough ammo to take you out before you did it.

 

Now enter v1.03, certain guns received a reduction on ammo, sabers were weakened also, but players stumbled on to a move (pull/BS) that utterly slaughtered gunners. Due to powers like speed and Force jump, you can close the distance between yourself and a gunner rather fast, if he didn't have enough ammo, he could not take you out before you reached him.

Advantage goes to saber user.

 

Enter v.104, gunners get their ammo back and sabers get that mighty move taken away and are left with the reduced damage introduced in v.103.

Advantage now goes to gunner. Sure you can get to him fast, but then what? You trade low damage swings for high damage shots.

 

The whole "Nerfing" thing is bad, very bad.

Removing stuff like the pivot in the BS is what patches should do, the same goes for the saber-in-the-ground-kills found in v1.02's DFA.

Players exploit a bug, patch it.

But don't overkill things by weakening the basic attacks once the exploit has been removed.

 

 

Now as for the comment I made about sabers being the main focus of the game.

That comes not from my personal belief of what the game should be like, but from the fact that when you mention Star Wars to someone, the first thing that pops into their mind is a lightsaber.

It's more from a smart marketing point of view than anything else.

A smart publisher/developer should play up the attraction of the most well recognized item associated with a licensed franchise game.

 

A very large amount of people came to this game for the saber combat, you make it exciting and fun and not only will those people stay, they will spread the word of how fun it is and hence you will sell more games.

 

 

You make the most common reason people are attracted to this game nothing more than "generic space shooter weapon #5" and people will leave and spread the word "It's not that big of a deal." And hence sales drop.

[FatalStrike]

I agree with Gay Ewok - Guns advantage is distance and saber advantage is strength.

 

Had the lightsaber been at the strength levels of MP 1.04 would you have used it in SP? Would you have tried to kill a group of storm troopers armed with E-11's if you had to whack them 4 times each to kill them. No, because they would kill you before you killed the first one.

 

I used the saber in SP when I could get close, and guns when I couldn't. This is how it should be, this is what Jedi do, and the game is based on a Jedi. Any of you who wish guns to have the advantage they have now need to go and play Q3 or CS to fill you shooter needs.

 

This is how I feel and YES I think MY way of thinking should be imposed on others. I could care less about 1.04 losers because they didn't seem to give a hoot about me when they asked Raven to mess the game up.

 

On another note:

 

 

All the polls about this subject show that about half of all people like 1.02 the best, and that more than half of people think nerfing everything was the wrong approach to fixing anything. So it is time that RAVEN start paying some F^cking attention and fix this damn mess!

[Spider AL]

(Forum had problems assigning the correct date to this post initially, so I've deleted it and reposted with interest!)

 

But it does have some truth to it, as 1.02 was THE best version of the game, full stop

 

Well I agree, in that: I had IMMENSE fun playing 1.02, and I didn't really care for the idea that anything should be changed. But it's worth remembering that just prior to the release of 1.03, the DFA spin bug was becoming widely used and reviled, drain was cussed around the globe, heal was thought to be too powerful... chances are, if 1.03 hadn't been released when it was, we'd all have been clamouring for changes to those moves/powers to be made. 1.02 certainly wasn't perfect. Now, in 1.04, I can choose to use light OR dark and have success, I can attack gunners with my sabre again (without resorting to backswing) and, depending on the skill of the gunner when compared to my own skill, I can meet with success.

 

Life is good. Sure, there are aspects of 1.04 which could be improved... but there were aspects of 1.02 which had to be improved. I'm fairly satisfied with the feel of the game now, and I think you'll have to agree that the overall feel of the game is the most important thing about the game.

 

I am by no means saying everyone should conform to my vision of what the game should be.

 

Ahh but Ewok, when you say that in JO the sabre should be the most effective weapon, outweighing both guns and force powers, you're pretty much saying that the whole game should conform to that ideal. And there's nothing wrong with the idea itself, but I feel it'd be better placed in a mod or as specific server settings.

 

Actually, in a way you made my point.

 

Well, hopefully I made my own point, but if our two points mesh well, all the better.

 

sabers get that mighty move taken away and are left with the reduced damage introduced in v.103

 

... but in 1.02, you could kill someone with full armour in two red stance hits. You can kill someone in two hits or even one hit now, AND there's the option of increasing sabre damage on servers. I'm sorry, but this just doesn't seem like a serious game balance flaw to me, as even if it DOES exist, it's easily remedied.

 

You say that in 1.02:

 

Sabers were the most effective weapon up close

 

But that simply isn't true. If I had a rocket launcher or even a repeater in 1.02, the glowsticker would not be able to survive an assault on me. Heck, even if I didn't manage to wrong-foot him into putting a few feet between us, all I had to do was jump up and down to avoid him and in ten seconds or less it was all over. At close range, nobody can push rockets or conky bolts away, after all.

 

I'm not saying I didn't get killed by sabres when toting guns. I STILL get killed by sabres when toting guns in 1.04. Everyone does. But certain guns were always more powerful than the sabre at ANY range. There was ALWAYS a bias against sabre-only people, and that's why there was the outcry that caused 1.03's premature release, because people wanted the sabre to be all-powerful, and force powers and guns to be disempowered. And 1.03 wasn't too good. I mean, there were good ASPECTS to it. Like, leaving backstab aside, the duels were good. But the fact remains that since the sabre had the most powerful move attached to it, everyone ran around using nothing BUT the backswing. And that ruined CTF and FFA.

 

The whole "Nerfing" thing is bad, very bad.

 

I couldn't agree more, Ewok. The nerfing of heal, grip and the over-nerfing of drain were very very bad things. But the sabre hasn't been "nerfed" per-se, as a simple console command can ramp the damage. And loads of server admins have done it ALREADY.

 

Now you know that nerfing is bad... what are you proposing? The nerfing of guns? I hope not. If not, what you're proposing is the further empowerment of the sabre... But that can be done in the console easily already!

 

Now, I've said before that sabres were what drew me to JK1 in the first place... but I realise, and recognise, and respect, that not all game modes are meant to be sabrefests. There are enough game modes that compliment sabres out there, and there are enough servers that run them out there, to satisfy nearly every sabre fanatic in the world. And if there aren't, more are easily made.

 

Now, if I were a rodian bounty-hunter fanatic, and I said to you that the game's most powerful weapon should be the disruptor, and I further said that all the other weapons should be weakened so that people in the middle of a sniping shot could avoid being killed... You'd say it was stupid.

 

You'd be right. Now, that doesn't mean that disruptors aren't cool, and it doesn't mean that rodian fans should take a hike. No, it means that they should make a mod, and start even more servers where their game, the game they like, is played!

 

I'm as big a Star Wars fan as anyone on this board. I've got the Vids, the DVDs. I've got the T-shirt. I've explored the EU. I've read the fanfics. I've played the games, memorised portions of the scripts, and even bought the set of Jedi Knight graphic novels. And I love the lightsabre.

 

So when I feel like it, I go to my favourite sabres FFA server with ramped up damage and low blocking. And it's GREAT. I love it. And NF duels, I love them too.

 

But I also love guns and force, because I love JO as a whole. So when I feel like that, I go to my favourite guns and force server. I NEVER feel as though I'm being deprived of anything, because I play all settings equally.

 

You make the most common reason people are attracted to this game nothing more than "generic space shooter weapon #5" and people will leave and spread the word "It's not that big of a deal." And hence sales drop.

 

Hmm, I understand your concerns for the scope of the community, but I really don't think you have to worry. Sabre combat, even on guns FFA normal damage scale servers, is INTEGRAL. I make at sabre kills each and every match, as I'm sure you do on the same type of servers.

 

Should every server be a sabre fest? I don't think so. Will the fact that on guns and force servers the sabre is not all powerful affect sales of the game? I don't think so.

 

I think we've got a great game here, which can be moulded into whatever our imagination can conceive of, and I think it's about time we started getting our hands dirty, making mods, adminning servers, advocating our own settings yes, but I think that any attempt to change the entire spectrum of servers into one game type is both doomed to failiure, and is a futile, and harmful quest to begin with.

 

All the polls about this subject show that about half of all people like 1.02 the best

 

People can't make informed choices about 1.02, as most people never got a chance to get to know it. I did however, and I'm painfully aware that 1.02 was far from perfect.

 

Had the lightsaber been at the strength levels of MP 1.04 would you have used it in SP?

 

That's what g_saberDamageScale is for, son.

 

YES I think MY way of thinking should be imposed on others

 

Then go and boil your head, for you are obviously a complete and utter waste of flesh and oxygen.

 

I could care less about 1.04 losers

 

Don't worry son, the feeling's mutual. Only, we would use the correct English expression "couldn't care less."

[FatalStrike]

Originally posted by Spider AL

People can't make informed choices about 1.02, as most people never got a chance to get to know it. I did however, and I'm painfully aware that 1.02 was far from perfect.

 

 

Did I claim it was perfect? No!

 

Why is it that you believe people cannot make informed choices about 1.02? This statement stops short of explaining what you believe they failed to notice in 1.02.

 

Please refrain form using comments that lead to vague conclussions in the future.

 

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

That's what g_saberDamageScale is for, son.

 

I am commenting on the official patch. We can not have a intelligent discussion relative to 1.04 if we allow comments on what admins can change. After all they could have reduced saber damage in 1.03 but that would hardly have beeen an acceptable soultion.

 

The very fact that so many are seeking to raise damagescale and reduce the defensive ability, is evidence that the patch has been made incorrectly.

 

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

Then go and boil your head, for you are obviously a complete and utter waste of flesh and oxygen.

 

I do not need a smug old man calling me son and othewise insulting me. Please refrain from such comments in the future.

 

 

Originally posted by Spider AL

Don't worry son, the feeling's mutual. Only, we would use the correct English expression "couldn't care less."

 

Is that "we" a royal plural or are there more then one of you in that little head of yours?

[Lord_PhilMil]

the fact that ass fighting is gone is a god send to me thats the resion i stopped playing jko for a while but the 1.04 patch went to far!!!

I cant use light lounge any more!! that got me mad so if raven wants my opion i hate 1.04!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!