mez1109 Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 The only reason I am saying he had to be THE Jedi, better then Mace Windu, Obi Wan etc., as he beat his own father, well Lord Sidious finished him of, but Luke did cut Vader's shoulder badly, and cut his hand off, he was near losing anyway. Did you look at Lord Sidious' face when Vader was beaten, he was happy, he had found a stronger Jedi then Anakin, and with Luke killing Vader he would join the Dark side, then there be no more resistence. Let's recall what should happen in SW3, ALL Jedi dead, there are people who say that their faviourite Jedis live, but they will ALL DIE, either by Vader's hands or by the Stormtroopers. Luke takes on the whole SW Galaxie and the verious lords who work with the Empire, and he still LIVES, how much more proof do you want. The poor guy can't do any better, most of the so called powerful Jedis died in the arena within AOTC, imagine what happens when the Stormtroopers get their hands on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 30, 2002 Share Posted July 30, 2002 there were thousands and thousands of battle droids in that arena....and 200 jedi. NOBODY can last that long against those odds. Had the clonetrooper reinforcements not arrived, every jedi there would have died. Had luke skywalker been there.....he would have died. I'm not saying that luke was not powerful....he had the raw powers....but he wasn't TALENTED. In ESB, he couldn't lift his X-wing more than a few feet before he decided it was impossible. Yoda didn't even break a sweat lifting it out and moving it onto dry land. How often did luke get into the middle of a serious firefight, kick some ass, and come out on top? once, RotJ on Jabbas sail barge. ObiWan Kenobi messed up countless droids in TPM, leapt out of a window 1,000 stories up, survived one on one versus an acklay, eventually killing it...and messed up a LOT of battle droids in the arena battle. Luke did beat vader, but Vader was more machine than man...he needed a machine to regulate his breathing, so his stamina was horrible. He had almost no agility left in him, and he was fairly old. The emperor was glad to possibly have luke because luke was young and didn't need machines to keep him alive. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Remember also that Vader did not want to kill Luke. He gives Luke as many chances as possible in Empire to join him, and even after Luke has jumped away from Vader, Vader still tries to convert him while Luke's lying down in the Falcon. Vader's dealing with his own internal conflict, which Luke points out. Vader denies it, of course, but as evident by his actions at the end of Jedi, he WAS plagued with internal strife. The last thing he wanted to have to do is kill Luke. If he HAD wanted to kill Luke, then Luke wouldn't have stood a chance against him. Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Exactly, even when luke got super pissed in RotJ and started hacking away at vader we saw two things, 1. vader wasn't counterattacking atall, he didn't want to have to kill luke. 2. he was VERY tired..his broken condition just keeps him down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Darth Smaug Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 I would say Kit Fisto and Darth maul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Vader didnt want to kill luke and was holding back a bit. What more proof is there than Vader FINALLY giving in to his feelings and he helps out Luke by turning on his master and killing Sidious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted July 31, 2002 Share Posted July 31, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Smaug I would say Kit Fisto and Darth maul Well that was kind of random.......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Coolest jedi&sith? That must be Qui-Gon Jinn and Darth Maul Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth_spidey Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 OK YOU'RE ALL FORGETTING SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT! When Anakin got a little shock from Count Dooku he was way out of commision. Luke got shocked for like five minutes straight, then he carried his father all the way to the hanger, and if you know anything about Star Wars you know the Throne Room and the hanger they were in are very far apart. I mean that kid was a true jedi, one of the greatest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 OK YOU'RE ALL FORGETTING SOMETHING VERY IMPORTANT! When Anakin got a little shock from Count Dooku he was way out of commision. Luke got shocked for like five minutes straight When Dooku used lightning, he wanted to put Anakin down fast so the two Jedi couldn't double-team him so he gave him a big, fast jolt and slammed him into the wall. The Emperor wanted Luke to suffer, he was toying with Luke causing as much pain as he could and enjoying the 'ell out of it. I think a good comparison is that Dooku just slammed Anakin as hard as he could right in the chest with a sledge hammer, while Palpatine was hiting Luke again and again in non-vital places and not with his full strength. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mez1109 Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 I like to believe that, but force lightning just hurts you, there is no controlling where on a person it does damage, it just does, even though Luke was being torchered, he still should have fallen to the ground from the pain. Dooku did slam the lightning at Anakin I agree, and it knocked him out, but lasting 5 min under continues torcher, I don't know how long any Jedi can last, that is proper power, and remember Dooku is not as strong as Sidious, Dooku could have never kept up the lightning force move for long, as it drains on the Sith's own force energy and is very tiering but also as deadly. Lets just face it, GL did make Luke stronger then Anakin, and he learned very quickly to be a exellent Jedi, it is just that in the new episodes there is a more excesive use of the saber then in the old SW, Luke was doing more acrobatics, laser shooting and of course flying. Don't get me wrong, Luke wasn't perfect straight away, Anakin had become stronger over the years, and his body being mechanical won't effect him much, as he can still use all the force moves, and can kick anyones ass anytime, if he was that weak Yoda or Obi Wan would have killed him, as Obi Wan was always a better Jedi in the new Episodes, but obviously Anakin became much better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 I like to believe that, but force lightning just hurts you, there is no controlling where on a person it does damage, it just does, even though Luke was being torchered, he still should have fallen to the ground from the pain. ummmmm......he did...fall on the ground. He was writhing in pain on the ground and screaming in pain. Anakin was not only force lightninged, he was slammed against the wall twice. Then, obiwan's fight was pretty short, and right after it anakin made a force leap and blocked dooku's saber on the downward swing. THEN he dueled Dooku and did a pretty decent job of it. and Dookus blast was VERY powerful, he put all he had into it, strong enough to throw anakin around. Sideous was being cruel and his blast was just enough to cause MASSIVE pain. Luke was in pain, anakin was injured. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 2, 2002 Share Posted August 2, 2002 Right!, Also Sidious was most likely enjoying causing Luke pain. He was toying with Luke. When Sidious had his fun he said "Now you die Jedi"(or something to that effect). Meaning that he wasnt giving it his all. After Sidious said that Vader picked up Sidious shortly afterwards, cause Vader knew that Luke was a goner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaster21801 Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 uh oh MotionMan, some poor newb is gonna come in now and ask why you think Palpatine is Sidious again... *sigh* I agree though, I feel that if Palpatine/Sidious felt like it, he could have unleashed a full force attack on Luke, just like the difference between a light shock and a lightning bolt. Sidious can manipulate the Force to his will, thus amplifying and subduing the amount of power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 I have asked this before, and I ask it again: HOW CAN SIDIOUS BE PALPY WHEN THEY ARE NOT THE SAME HEIGHT?????!?!!?! That was all, thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 Originally posted by JM Qui-Gon Jinn I have asked this before, and I ask it again: HOW CAN SIDIOUS BE PALPY WHEN THEY ARE NOT THE SAME HEIGHT?????!?!!?! That was all, thank you. It is simple you see. The cloak Sidious wears adds to Sidious's height. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 And he wears big sith boots, to make himself more intimidating! Besides, we know that the emperor's name is emperor palpatine, and we know that the emperor is a sith, thusly palpatine is a sith, and if palpatine and sideous are different people, they're BOTH siths, and Dooku is a sith, making 3 siths, which isn't allowed. So palpatine and sideous are the same person That's all, you're welcome. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted August 3, 2002 Share Posted August 3, 2002 and they have the same face and voice, which gives it away a bit Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MotionMan Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 The also share the same body and organs. The same spirit the both exsist in the same plane of reality taking up the same space at the exact same time in the same dimension!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 who says there can't be more than two sith? rules can be broken (example: anakin, dooku) just cuz there's a rule about only two sith doesn't mean they follow it, it is totally possible that there are 3 maybe 4 sith in existence, they just don't know about each other, and then there will be a battle of sith and the jedi come to stop it once and for all then the jedi realize that anakin's become a sith and he kills all the jedi but obi-wan, padme, yoda, mace, and maybe typho escape while anakin is killing the rest of the jedi and dooku while palpy looks at his apprentice destruct the jedi and remaining sith, then anakin chases after obi, yoda, mace, padme, and typho, trying to get his son (doesn't know about the daughter) and mace gets into a showdown gets injured badly and anakin leaves mace for little boba, and then obi-wan beats the holy jebus out of anakin and palpy finds half dead anakin and makes himself a darth vader, vader vows revenge, and the ending is sad music with padme looking at the stars w/little leia running around, and obi-wan handing a sleeping luke to owen and beru then he rides off into the desert at dusk and a closing shot of vader w/maybe the imperial march playing in the background Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 I think Anakin will either be goaded into a duel with Dooku--much in the same way the Emperor goaded Luke into fighting Vader--or that Dooku will be assassinated to make way for Anakin. Yes, the SW galaxy is enormous, but we're not talking about regular people, here. And you think two Sith Lords on the same planet wouldn't be able to sense each other? Sure, the Jedi can't sense the Sith, but that's because the Dark Side of the Force is clouding their vision. But those accustomed to the dark can see into the dark... the Sith would be able to find other Sith (these guys are nexuses of the Dark Side, afterall) and deal with them accordingly. Now, for breaking and bending rules... if Palpatine didn't respect the Rule of Two, why did he pit Luke against Vader? Whoever won, the other, whether Luke or Vader, would still have been an incredibly powerful Force-user. Why not just say, "Heck! You can BOTH be my apprentice!" and have even more power? Because he respects the Rule of Two and knows it's impossible for there to be more than two. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 palpatine needed someone fresh and full of life not a 23 year old computer/old guy maybe the other sith think it's their master/apprentice that they're sensing and don't realize that there's two more there, but the other two obviously know about sidious and dooku who knows, just because two characters have the same voice doesn't mean anything though, their just played by the same actor but are probably supposed to be different people though, NO person here knows for a fact and it's just their opinion, i stated mine and we'll all just have to wait another 3 years for the final movie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 He maybe could've used a fresh sith, but it's not like Vader was a pansy. NOBODY messed with Vader, and if they did, he killed them. He was extremely deadly. (really hard on the officers, though.) If palpatine didn't care about the rule of two he would deffinately have just tried to bring luke into his control and not force him to kill Vader. Two super powerful sith apprentices is better than one. And we know that different Jedis/sith give off different presences in the force, as we had Vader in ANH say "I feel a presence i haven't felt since......" and he goes to tell Tarkin that ObiWan Kenobi is on the Death Star. AND, why would Sideous always operate from Coruscant? Wouldn't it have been easier for him to be on a more remote planet where the Jedi have less of a chance of discovering him? The only reason it makes sense is because he needs to be there to run the senate, because he is in fact also chancellor palpatine. And if palpatine and sideous aren't the same person, then why is sideous always doing things that allow palpatine to rise in power? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 maybe palpatine and sidious are in cahootz, think, the jedi aren't able to sense a GREATER sith presence when they're talking to him? obi-wan would be able to, cuz he's actually been in the presence of a sith, and maybe sidious is the main sith, palpatine is in training, dooku is in training but doesn't know about palpatine and sidious tells palpatine what to do in exchange for training? the jedi feel a disturbance in the force but do not talk about it even to each other if palpatine is sidious, cuz if they can feel him from other buildings why not in the same room? maybe palpatine was good in ep1 barely started his training in ep2 and sidious dies in ep3 but palpatine takes over Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted August 4, 2002 Share Posted August 4, 2002 If George lucas was going to put more than 2 sith at one time in his movies, i highly doubt he would have added Yoda's line where he specifically says "only two there are, a master, and an apprentice" It would have been a complete waste of his time if he was just going to contradict that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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