All this and no R2-D2 probs?

[Sivy]

I can't believe that people are still saying that palpatine and sidious aren't the same person.

Dark Lords of the sith take on different names

 

Anakin Skywalker becomes Darth Vader

Count Dooku is Darth Tyranus

Palpatine is Darth sidious

 

By Sith tradition, as it says on http://www.starwars.com

 

Anakin is the choosen one who brings balance to the force, which the Jedi assume is a good thing. But what is means is that the Jedi are elimated, leaving two (same as the sith), Yoda & Obi-Wan (then when Obi-Wan dies, Luke & Yoda)

 

Listen to ET Warrior, words of wisdom he speaks

[MotionMan]

People who think that sidious and palpatine are 2 different people wont accept it till ep.3

SIGH:rolleyes:

[Weapon X]

hey, i'm just saying "what if" my posts were really just putting in all possibilities that haven't really been thought of (that i've seen) so in essence, i was just arguing for the sake of arguing and NO ONE knows the real answer but george lucas so don't say you absolutely know the truth, you all just have educated guesses

[ET Warrior]

And how do you know that I'm not George Lucas? Or perhaps me and george are old friends, and we go way back. And her personally told me that Palp and sideous are the same person.

 

I am of course lying...i do not personally know George Lucas..(wish i did) but anywho.....our educated guesses are the VERY educated guesses and the most reasonable and factually provable of any guess out there. And we did point out that your arguments had some serious flaws in them, as do all other arguments that say that palpatine and sideous are different people. And our theory is pretty much flawless. But of course that's just what i think....

[MotionMan]

Palpatine IS Sidious. Your argument WAS flawless:)

[mez1109]

I am not saying that anyone is wrong or right, I am the silent part of this debate, but....

 

Why would Sidious act to be Palpetine?

 

Would Sidious not just have Palpetine under his control like most of the other people?

 

Would Sidious not have been a previous Jedi, as there are no other Sith Lords since 1000 years?

 

Yoda would surely sense the disturbance in the force, even though the dark sides cloudes judgment, Yoda is no ordenary Jedi, he is the good version of Sidious, much shorter and green too, but no mind tricks will work on him easily, Yoda always notices everything, and he WILL notice Sidious.

 

All stated above can be ignored, if Sidious has a little switch that turns his force powers on and off, just the think a Sith Lord needs for emergencies and for secret infiltration within the Jedi, curtesy of Q's work shop

[ET Warrior]

Sideous is not acting like palpatine......sideous IS palpatine. They are one man. Sharing the same genes, body, voice, sould, etc. etc.

And no, sideous was not once a jedi. If so, the Jedi would realize that....hey! Palpatine looks an awful lot like that one jedi who used to be here.........

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by MotionMan

The also share the same body and organs. The same spirit the both exsist in the same plane of reality taking up the same space at the exact same time in the same dimension!!!

 

[Weapon X]

he has a good point, jedi and sith aren't like the dbz characters that can supresss their powers, the force users are ALWAYS able to be sensed by other force users no matter what, even on the outskirts of tatooine they could sense it, so i think that palpatine is not sidious BUT are in league w/one another

[ET Warrior]

Okay, i'll give you a couple quotes from AOTC, to show why they cannot sense sideous/palpatine.

 

Yoda: "Blind we are, if creation of this clone army, we could not see"

Mace: "I think it is time we informed the senate that our ability to use the force has diminished"

Yoda: "Only the dark lord of the sith knows of our weakness. If informed, the senate is....multiply, our adversaries will"

 

Or on Geonosis

Dooku: "What if i told you that the senate is under the control of a dark lord of the sith?"

Obi: "No, that's not possible, the jedi would be aware of it"

Dooku: "The Dark Side of the force has clouded their vision."

 

Thusly, we know that the Sith are experts at hiding and clouding the jedi's vision. They have remained undetected by the Jedi for 1,000 years. If jedi COULD sense the sith on coruscant, they would have sensed Sideous in episode 1 because we saw sideous talking to maul on a coruscant platform.

And if sideous and palpatine are in league, then WHY does sideous stay on coruscant. We know he was there in episode 1 as i imentioned, and he was there at the end of episode 2. That is the main center of the jedi. The most powerful jedi are on coruscant. Sideous would have a MUCH greater chance of being found and killed/captured on coruscant. The only reason he would need to be there is if he were, say, chancellor palpatine

[MotionMan]

Exactly. If Sidious was a different person, what business does he have in Coruscant? Thats idiotic that he would stay in the lions den(meaning were the Jedi are). The only reason Sidious is in Coruscant is because he is Palpatine. He has to run the Republic after all.

Im afraid this will be argued till 2005, when ep.3 comes out.

*sigh*

[mez1109]

Thank you ep2 Anakin!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No offence ment ET Warrior, but you worked so hard on those quotes, but they only prove that there are spies within the Republic.

 

And if sideous and palpatine are in league, then WHY does sideous stay on coruscant. We know he was there in episode 1 as i imentioned, and he was there at the end of episode 2. That is the main center of the jedi. The most powerful jedi are on coruscant. Sideous would have a MUCH greater chance of being found and killed/captured on coruscant. The only reason he would need to be there is if he were, say, chancellor palpatine

 

Hmmm, he is a Sith Lord, he is not scared of the Jedis finding or killing him, and never in ever tries to hide his presence, Yoda knows that the Sith is at work, Obi Wan is informed about Sidious by Dooku, in Lord Sidious' point of view, he loves to chew Yoda and the rest of the Jedi Council into little pieces and spit them out.

 

Also if Sidious is stupid to stay in the Lions Den (as MotionMan nicely phrased it), then he must be REALLY stupid to disguise himself as Palpetine and live most of his existence with the Jedi and the Republic, giving Yoda the chance to figure him out and kill him.

 

If Sidious is no previous Jedi who went AWOL, then there must be some kind of Sith academy, there must be many Sith Masters, as Dooku was a Sith since some time, but in EP1 only Darth Maul (an unknown Sith as he was no Jedi previously) was sent to cause disturbance.

 

Any how, MotionMan is right, there are several arguments, it is better to wait until SW3, but does Sidious' skin not look a bit greyish?

[Kryllith]

Originally posted by mez1109

Also if Sidious is stupid to stay in the Lions Den (as MotionMan nicely phrased it), then he must be REALLY stupid to disguise himself as Palpetine and live most of his existence with the Jedi and the Republic, giving Yoda the chance to figure him out and kill him.

 

Unless he is skilled enough in the powers of the Dark Side to be able to prevent people from discovering his Force powers. So far as we know, perhaps the ONLY thing he uses the Force for in Episode I and II is hiding his identity. Besides, Palpatine is a master of deception and misdirection. If someone did get close to discovering him, he'd simply set up something (like the invasion of Naboo or the battle of Geonosis) to distract people long enough to cover his tracks.

 

If Sidious is no previous Jedi who went AWOL, then there must be some kind of Sith academy, there must be many Sith Masters, as Dooku was a Sith since some time, but in EP1 only Darth Maul (an unknown Sith as he was no Jedi previously) was sent to cause disturbance.

Some time? Say perhaps... 10 years... right after Maul died? Dooku was a jedi for many years; he wouldn't have had to go to a Sith academy. When Maul died, he could have simply stepped in. He was already trained in the Jedi arts; he simply needed to expand his training into the Dark side of the Force. As for Palpatine/Sidious, he probably got his training as a youth from the Sith Master, long before he ever entered politics. He wouldn't have need an academy; he simply would have trained, become the master, trained Maul, then replaced Maul with Dooku.

 

Kryllith

[ET Warrior]

Originally posted by mez1109

Thank you ep2 Anakin!!!!!!!!!!!

 

No offence ment ET Warrior, but you worked so hard on those quotes, but they only prove that there are spies within the Republic.

 

Hmmm, he is a Sith Lord, he is not scared of the Jedis finding or killing him, and never in ever tries to hide his presence, Yoda knows that the Sith is at work, Obi Wan is informed about Sidious by Dooku, in Lord Sidious' point of view, he loves to chew Yoda and the rest of the Jedi Council into little pieces and spit them out.

 

Also if Sidious is stupid to stay in the Lions Den (as MotionMan nicely phrased it), then he must be REALLY stupid to disguise himself as Palpetine and live most of his existence with the Jedi and the Republic, giving Yoda the chance to figure him out and kill him.

 

First of all, my quote from Yoda and mace proves that the Jedi cannot use the force to see things, like an entire army of clones being created. So a Sith Lord could hide his presence. And you have a direct quote from the movie saying a sith lord is in charge of the senate.....

Actually, as a sith lord Jedis are pretty much the ONLY thing that he's scared of. I don't care how friggin tough he is, if the entire Jedi council comes after him at once....he's dead. No way around it.

Okay, he's not disguising himself as palpatine...he IS palpatine. And he is on coruscant because that is the only way that he can rule the republic and eventually take over the galaxy.

 

Now lets look at things that we know palpatine himself has done. One, even though he pretends to be sympathetic to amaidala's cause, he tell her in episdoe 1 that "I think we will have to accept federation rule for the time being" Not too suspicious, but a little. Then, when palpatine sees anakin on naboo the first thing he says is "We will watch you career with GREAT interest" an extremely suspicious thing to say...then at the end of the movie, Yoda tells Mace about the rule of two and mace says "But which one was killed, the master, or the apprentice?" And the camera goes straight to palpatines face.

 

Now in episode 2 we have anakin say out loud that Palpatine has been giving him guidance. Becoming a sort of mentor.

He also manages to trick jarjar into calling a vote to give palpatine emergency powers, which would lead to his eventual rise as emperor.......and we know that emperor palpatine has sith powers......i'm really not sure what more evidence there could be

[Weapon X]

if i were to go to a countries leader and entice him to do my biddings am i not in control of that country? that's my point, i'm in control but i'm NOT the guy telling the people what's happening/what laws are being made, the senate is controlled by a sith but maybe he's just using the senator as a pawn to do his bidding so he doesn't have to risk his life any more than needed, but he's still getting his job done

[ET Warrior]

But we know that palpatine is a sith. because EMPEROR palpatine is a sith. So why would chancellor palpatine listen to what sideous is saying?

[Weapon X]

he's only a sith in training right now, but betrays his master to become the most powerful sith:D

[ET Warrior]

And that would mean that Darth Sideous has 2 apprentices, which is against the rule of two. Even Jedi cannot have more than one apprentice per mastere.

[Weapon X]

just because it's a rule doesn't mean EVERYONE follows it, does everyone follow traffic laws? no. does everyone follow every rule in society? no. especially in big cities, signs say speed limit 55 but people drive 80 (our bus driver did:D) so just because there's a rule that says "sith can only have one apprentice" doesn't mean every sith follows it, because they're the bad guys and since there's no other master to punish them for breaking the rule they don't care about it

[MotionMan]

I doubt that when all doubt proving if Sidious is 2 people is removed, there will be some who still wont accept it.

[ET Warrior]

Ummm...have you been drinking motionman?

you worded that response very...confusingly

I'll assume you mean that you don't doubt that even when it's proven that sideous and palpatine are the same person, there will be those who don't believe it...and i agree with you

[ET Warrior]

Okay, i now have a quote, straight from the databank of Palpatine off of starwars.com that almost 100% proves that darth sideous and palpatine are the same person.

Palpatine instituted a military build-up unprecedented in galactic history. He created the New Order, a Galactic Empire that ruled by tyranny. The Jedi Knights, his biggest threat, were extinguished by his greatest dark side pupil: Anakin Skywalker, who had become Darth Vader.

 

The key term in there is his Greatest dark side pupil. This insinuates that palpatine has had OTHER dark side pupils. We've never seen palpatine with apprentices, if Sideous was palpatines master as you say ep2anakin, then he couldn't have an apprentice.......(i imagine that this still won't convince some people....but i'm doing my best)

See any similarities in these pics? Because one comes from palpatines bio, and one is from sideous' I think they're quite similar.......remembering of course that the one on the left is from RotJ, and the one on the right is from episode 2. Long time between to two.....so the one on the left is much older.

[MotionMan]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Ummm...have you been drinking motionman?

you worded that response very...confusingly

I'll assume you mean that you don't doubt that even when it's proven that sideous and palpatine are the same person, there will be those who don't believe it...and i agree with you

 

A little drunk yes*hip*

J/k...And yea thats what I meant.

[Weapon X]

well of course there's similarities, it's the same actor, ki adi mundi and nute gunray are played by the same guy, don't you see their similarities? anyway, after reading your post where is says greates dark side pupil that convinces me a little more but, i still don't think sidious would just waltz around in front of the jedi because sooner or later he'd slip and they'd realize, i can see it now...

"my negotiations, will not fail" *power surge*

6 lightsabers buzz to life and hack up what WAS chancellor palpatine

[ET Warrior]

but we know that palpatine is also a sith....so wouldn't he have "power surges" as well if sideous would have them?

Here's another quote from sidious' bio.

That the Sith could stage their operations on Coruscant undetected -- the same world that housed the Jedi Temple -- is evidence of the slippery nature of the dark side, and Sidious' mastery of illusion and deceit.

This quote is from palpatines bio, it lists his affiliations

Affiliation:

Galactic Senate, Galactic Republic, Empire, Sith

 

So palpatine is 100% absolutely for sure a sith......and so if the jedi would detect sideous they would detect him.......and we know that he has trained multiple apprentices according to that quote......so i really cannot give you any more proof........