Frontal kick ... it's a bug.

[Canis_Aureus]

Today I decided to try kicking. I had played on a server with some "iWi" people and they used the pull+kick combo a lot. I decided to try using only kick and nothing else. I finished 2nd with 22 frags... and I am not even very good at kicking.

 

- Kicking gives decent damage that goes straight through the shield.

- You are not vulnerable when kicking... it is totally risk-free.

- People can hardly hit you because your defences are working at 100%

- Kicking can also push people over, making them even more vulnerable... when they are down you can use your saber... otherwise... don't bother.

 

Kicking is a serious problem. Don't give me the old "All moves can be abused"... that is not true. The other specials are easily avoided and they make the attacker vulnerable and they are slow plus they must kill the shield first. The specials are for special situations... Kicking can be used as the only attack and you will be able to parry 100% all the time. Plus when jumping around you are not exactly easy to hit.

 

I didn't even use a script... make a little script where you press a button and then you pull+kick... easy and I know this is used. Check people who only kick when they can pull and check when people miss... they don't jump very high (unless they made a few waits after the second jump).

 

Frontal kick isn't really stylish... it is lame... a jedi would use his saber when facing an enemy. Sideways kick is ok, there a jedi can kick attackers away when fighting another and running rideways through levels and kicking is really hard.

 

I suggest something like this

 

- Remove kick damage

or

- Remove frontal kick

or

- Make the kicker vulnerable for a while like other attacks

or

a combination of the above

 

Something needs to be done though... and Raven made it harder to kick by requiring you to double click ... but they only gave scripters another advantage.

 

I still use kicks in duels even though there is no damage (FFA duels) if my enemy is on my side and about to attack... I almost never use the frontal kick though... sometimes when they jump and use the red special. So removing the damage will not make it useless... it will make it right, kicking will make sense... something used to keep attackers away rather than the most lethal weapon in the game.

[Lightning]

how do you kick??

[[JHQ]Inty]

Kicking is one of the easiest moves to avoid. I think it's fair to say it's pretty f*cking easy to tell when someone's going to try to kick you...and what you can do to counter it. There are so many ways to solve your so called 'problem'

 

1. when they jump at you side-step and slash

2. if they strafe-kick alot avoid sidestepping too close to them

3. if you're knocked down you can use PUSH or double tap jump quickly to recover

4. learn to fight better

 

I think reason #4 is the best one

[Canis_Aureus]

lol I can go on forever kicking... I can avoid your attacks as well... if you do attack you make yourself vulnerable... I don't as a kicker... I think you just haven't met anyone who are really good at this. and avoid it... I can stand fairly still and when you get close enough to attack I just kick... I don't have to charge. With a script you won't see me kicking... it's done so fast you can't even blink... so please stop talking about things you don't really understand... I can run up to you and continue chasing you... you can attack me but I am defending... when I am within kicking distance I tap my kick script button and you loose some health and perhaps fall to the ground... and I don't make myself vulnerable at any point... I can turn in the air too you know, so trying to get around to where you can attack me isn't that easy. But I am glad you haven't met anyone yet who uses the pul+kick script to get 1337 with servers and 0wn as they say

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by Canis_Aureus

 

- Kicking gives decent damage that goes straight through the shield.

- You are not vulnerable when kicking... it is totally risk-free.

- People can hardly hit you because your defences are working at 100%

- Kicking can also push people over, making them even more vulnerable... when they are down you can use your saber... otherwise... don't bother.

 

 

1- 20 damage, it takes 5 to kill your opponent. Compared to heavy stance saber swings that can kill in 1-2 blows, that’s pretty low.

 

2-Yes you are. You are vulnerable to every single form of attack available. You can take damage from saber throws, saber swings, Force attacks such as lightning, you can *easily be pushed back via Force push while in the air. You can also be kicked by your opponent.

 

3-That makes no sense. You defenses are always at 100% unless in some form of attack/movement animation. Don't believe me? Stand near a ledge w/ level 3 push/pull. If you do nothing and I try and shove you, you will do the "block animation" and stay in place. Hop in the air and try and kick me, now when I push you, you go flying over the edge. That’s one of the "basic" things every player should learn in the beginning.

 

4-True, but in v1.04 you can flip up twice as fast and Force push an incoming opponent back before they reach you while you are still on the ground. It is listed in the patch change details sticky thread in this forum. Most players caught onto it the day the patch came out.

 

 

 

Come on man seriously, don't take this as a flame, but you are complaining about a 20 damage move. Doesn’t that seem a little silly?

You can beat any opponent if they don't know a defense against the move you are using.

The last thing we need is another stupid newbie friendly Auto-Kung-Fu blocking system like the garbage introduced in v1.03 to keep newbies alive.

[Canis_Aureus]

Originally posted by Lightning

how do you kick??

 

Just make a script for the front kick... all the lame kickers uses it. Open notepad and copy this into it:

 

set "kick" "+forward; +moveup;wait;wait;-moveup;wait;wait;+moveup;wait;wait;-moveup;-forward"

 

Then save it as kick.cfg

 

In the game open up your console and type

 

exec kick.cfg <do this every time you start the game to run your script>

 

bind x "vstr kick" <x is the key of your choice for instance pgdn>

 

You could even add pull to that script so you pull first to get the enem close to you.

[Blues]

Yea, but kicking shouldn't be overly spammed. That just makes in unfun. That's why the game has a lightsaber. Sure, it can be used defensively or as a counter, or even to throw people off ledges, but what I hate is the people who think they are "good" at the game because they can kill someone without a saber. I like fighting people who vary their moves, who play the game how it was meant to be played.

[Canis_Aureus]

Originally posted by Homosexual Ewok

 

A) 1- 20 damage, it takes 5 to kill your opponent. Compared to heavy stance saber swings that can kill in 1-2 blows, that’s pretty low.

 

B) 2-Yes you are. You are vulnerable to every single form of attack available. You can take damage from saber throws, saber swings, Force attacks such as lightning, you can *easily be pushed back via Force push while in the air. You can also be kicked by your opponent.

 

C) 3-That makes no sense. You defenses are always at 100% unless in some form of attack/movement animation. Don't believe me? Stand near a ledge w/ level 3 push/pull. If you do nothing and I try and shove you, you will do the "block animation" and stay in place. Hop in the air and try and kick me, now when I push you, you go flying over the edge. That’s one of the "basic" things every player should learn in the beginning.

 

D)4-True, but in v1.04 you can flip up twice as fast and Force push an incoming opponent back before they reach you while you are still on the ground. It is listed in the patch change details sticky thread in this forum. Most players caught onto it the day the patch came out.

 

 

 

Come on man seriously, don't take this as a flame, but you are complaining about a 20 damage move. Doesn’t that seem a little silly?

You can beat any opponent if they don't know a defense against the move you are using.

The last thing we need is another stupid newbie friendly Auto-Kung-Fu blocking system like the garbage introduced in v1.03 to keep newbies alive.

 

And you wrote this in another post so I can see why you defend kick and say it is sooo easy to avoid --- lol

 

One thing to keep in mind, it's not always a script.

I pull/kick like a mother, and my accuracy/hit % is around 95%.

I don't script (I have enough friggen keys bound, I don't need more), but it may look like I do.

I have been doing this since I started FF dueling back in v1.03, I just got really good at it, and hence I use it a lot due to just about everything else being weakened in each patch that came out.

 

Actually, it does have a trade off, self inflicted damage.

I don't know how many times I have pulled someone to me only to take anywhere from 5-50+ damage from "saber bump" damage. I'm not sure why it is so high sometimes since they were not in any swing animation, but it is.

 

A) Not really correct... you can't kill someone with one or two swings in red stance if he has full shields... kicks bypass shields.

 

B) Yes all that is true... with a script though you won't have time to see me kick and attack. Besides it is true for a few kick attempts... I can keep on doing it until you can't push... I am not in a hurry because you can't hit me easily when I am just defending until I kick at you. So puching me does you no good... it just keep me at bay for a bit... it won't hurt me at all... and I could use absorb too to surprise you.

 

C) Same as B really... it will work for the first kicks until you run out of force.

 

D) yeah you are right... just added it as a little bonus... nothing serious.

 

And Today was the first time ever I did it... I am not even good at kicking. Do you think I make it up when I say we see players comming to gamesdomain servers and winning using this tactic. I have been playing since the beginning and think this patch had improved the game a lot. And I am not a poor player... I can avoid the kickers for a while... but killing them is hard and they just go on forever.... But when I as a kick-noob can get second place the very first time I try... it's just too easy.

 

It's not just that these people win using this tactic (if they are good at it) ... it's more the fact that is messes up the gameplay on an otherwise nice server.

[ryudom]

it is easy to avoid kicks, expept maybe when then pull kick comes in. haven't run into any one yet that uses that though.

 

also you ARE vulneratble when you kick, you can easily get hit or kicked while in mid air.

 

i think in FFA and CTF saber damage should be 2x or 3x. that would solve the problem i think.

[Homosexual Ewok]

Originally posted by Canis_Aureus

 

A) Not really correct... you can't kill someone with one or two swings in red stance if he has full shields... kicks bypass shields.

 

B) Yes all that is true... with a script though you won't have time to see me kick and attack. Besides it is true for a few kick attempts... I can keep on doing it until you can't push... I am not in a hurry because you can't hit me easily when I am just defending until I kick at you. So puching me does you no good... it just keep me at bay for a bit... it won't hurt me at all... and I could use absorb too to surprise you.

 

C) Same as B really... it will work for the first kicks until you run out of force.

 

D) yeah you are right... just added it as a little bonus... nothing serious.

 

And Today was the first time ever I did it... I am not even good at kicking. Do you think I make it up when I say we see players comming to gamesdomain servers and winning using this tactic. I have been playing since the beginning and think this patch had improved the game a lot. And I am not a poor player... I can avoid the kickers for a while... but killing them is hard and they just go on forever.... But when I as a kick-noob can get second place the very first time I try... it's just too easy.

 

It's not just that these people win using this tactic (if they are good at it) ... it's more the fact that is messes up the gameplay on an otherwise nice server.

 

A) Two heavy stance overhand chops (forward+attack) will kill a person at 100/25. A single DFA *head on will kill a person at 100/25.

 

B) Those were just options available, not a recommended defense. As one who has used kicks heavily since v.103 came out, I have become ridiculously good at both using them and defending against them, scripted or not. The best defense is to simply sidestep the kick or run under/step back if they leap too early. Even if you use a script, you still go into the jump animation. The second your feet leave the ground, all I have to do is sidestep, roll, or run under you to avoid contact. It all depends on your position, in relation to me, when you leapt. Smart players pay attention to little things like this.

 

 

I won't argue that kicks are better offensive weapons than sabers. After the constant whining on behalf of inexperienced players, and two wonderful patches, sabers have become a secondary form of attack rather than a primary weapon.

 

The point I am aiming for here is, by your own admission, you are not very experienced at kicking. Learning how to defend against them pretty much requires having to learn how to successfully use them *and when not to.

 

As for beating up on some guys in a FFA server. I've gone in many and done nothing more than hold down mouse 1 and "headless chicken" my way to victory on several occasions, so it's kind of hard for me to believe that you were up against "top level players".

 

Like I said, for a successful defense you have to pay attention to your opponents position, keep them from "boxing you in" by constantly repositioning yourself, and be rather quick with your movement keys.

Actually some of the best people to watch/teach you kick defenses are players who play on NF duel servers with only jump enabled. The basic defensive premise of that game type requires you to be able to manually avoid incoming attacks using only your movement keys. Ever seen a top NF dueler simply stand there and side step every incoming saber swing? It is the same premise for kicks, you can do it, but it does require practice and quick reflexes.

[The Fromeister]

This post is made under the assumption that you are facing a non-scripting kicker. I don't consider scripters to be valid players. Scripts remove the human aspect of the game, the error inherent in that, and the skill and practice required to use certain tactics. If you only wish to complain about script-kickers, well, play on a server that kicks people who script. I do, and that's the only server I play on due mostly to the awesome admins and the atmopsphere inherent to the server and the people.

 

Now, as to non-scripting kickers:

Kicking is an art form, or at least you should look at it as such. If you ever spend any real amount of time kicking you will notice all the different levels to it and all the nuances that can be manipulated and played off of.

 

All tactics below relate to no-force servers, the only kind of server that I play on, as such they will not neccessarily apply to force-enabled servers.

 

Frontal kicks are, in the hands of an untrained or unpracticed individual, very easy to spot, avoid and counter. Most people who kick will attempt a kick any time you charge them. This leaves them vulnerable, you cannot jump immediately after you touch down to the ground, therefor either a kick can be used as a counter or a quick blue lunge. Now, when you charge, you have many different options. You can:

A) Backflip as you near them (or if you're feeling lucky, reverse direction and run backwards, this is dangerous though and leaves you vulnerable unless you have practiced long enough and know the distance neccessary to pull off a kick). If you time it right you will be able to either kick the person or blue lunge them as they come down to the ground. This is better accomplished while backing up as backflipping leaves you with little time to set up.

B) Duck. Most people can't double-tap fast enough to front kick someone who is crouching (remember, I said this is assuming a no scripting environment) and as such will sail over you head. You can now backstab them, or turn around and lunge them, or turn around and kick them.

C) Sidestep, often with a little backwards movement. You can now sidekick, turn and front kick, slash with your saber, or do a light lunge.

 

Keep in mind, this is not a complete list by any means, nor even a very detailed description, just a general outline of possible counters.

 

People who spam kick will often not be familiar with it's mechanics. If you want to learn how to counter kick, practice it. Find someone to get into kick duels with. Believe it or not they can actually be fun, often ranging all over the map with much probing and baiting between the two people. You will develope a feel for when and how to kick as well as how to spot someone attempting a kick and the method of countering best suited for the situation.

 

I don't care how good of a kicker you are, there's always someone who can beat you, and not neccessarily with kicking either. You don't need to kick to beat kick, this is not a case of fire vs. fire being the only plausible option.

 

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

 

Now, this is not to say that I think kicking is totally balanced, I think that an average of 20 damage is a tad much. 10-15 (15, I think, is better) would be a little more balanced. As it is running around kicking in a giant melee is almost as effective as constantly DFAing, though less so due to having only a fraction of the power. Another option would be to make kicking drain force power, 3-4 bars. This would limit the number of kicks able to be done in a set amount of time, lower the mobility of the kicker, and limit his force abilities.

 

However, kicking is not invincible, nor is it overpowered to the point where a patch must be made to change it.

 

You are, of course, entitled to your opinion, but that does not make it a right one. I'm not saying you're wholly wrong, just that you have not yet experienced the full spectrum of kicking nor it's advantages and disadvantages.

 

Thank you for your time if you actually read all of that, and I think I'll go ahead and end it up now.

[Canis_Aureus]

ok then Ewok ... your 95% accuracy is just bull then? 95% accuracy means you kill people in 6 kicks... and I have to kill you before that or I am dead.,.. oh well.

[The Fromeister]

Alright, nevermind. Forget what I said. Listen to Homosexual Ewok. He said it much better than I.

[CagedCrado]

yes definetly, kicking is gay, pushing is gay, pulling is gay too. when in a script it is so gay it isnt funny. and there is a glitch that lets host do it when you have absorb on.

[Blues]

I tried that script out, and I must say it was disgusting. But now I'll be able to tell the scripters from the non-scripters..

[The oUt/<ast]

Heres a Easy to do thing. When you see someone about to kick you, SHOLDER ROLL TWORDS THEM! 90% of the time they will activate there script and they wont be able to issue any commands until its done. And could easily, considering this is a place like nar shadda, or anything with a deadly fall, you can push them and let them fall to there frolicing death. Try it, It works.

[teutonicknight]

Kicking is not a bug. It does so little damage that you must be an idoit to fall for kicks in a row and not do anything. There are plenty of counters for it.

[RamataKahn]

OMFG Why do people still post stupid crap like this????? Haven't they buthcered the game enough already??? Freakin use force absorb and they can't pull to kick! For everyone's information, this is not a serious problem at all for players you have a clue how to play. Move along please, nothing to see here.

[SeraphimII]

Am I the only one who thing its funny that he complains about how powerful/overused kick is then posts the script to do it.

 

This is like...Wow I can even this of the word...Really Someone please help me with that...

[Kurgan]

Kick is no problem... it requires you to be at close range (you can be drained or zapped with lightning or saber throw before you get within kicking range) and requires a double-tap as of 1.03. You need at least level 2 force jump and the saber out to use it as well, limiting it somewhat. Removing it, IMHO is a bad idea. Besides, to use the rhetoric of others... don't we "need" this move to balance out the "cheap" moves like DFA, light lunge, backstab, etc?

 

; )

 

Besides, it's very star-warsy!

[RpTheHotrod]

You're pathetic if you have to kick using a script.

 

 

[Blues]

I don't understand why people even use scripts. I mean, how lazy can you get to have to bind a simple move like kick to one key? Eventually the game'll get to be where all you have to do is press one key to kill someone. LOL.

[Canis_Aureus]

I don't kick much so I don't need a script... I only use sideways kicks. But I posted the script so people could use it... and lots of people are no matter what they say here, so everyone might as well have it. If you say my script won't make it easier to kick... well then no problem. If you think it will... then I say it is only fair that everyone know of it.

 

So you need to get close to hit with the kick ehhh... lol on a saber only server this doesn't help much since the range of the kick is longer than blue and yellow and faster to do than red attack. All this is about saber only servers... With guns I can see how kick never will be a problem.

 

Look at the script... it can execute almost twice before you hit with a regular red attack. With blue and yellow you will be working on my shield while I go straight for your health.

 

Ok 90% of you think kick is fine.... well so be it. But Ewoks contradiction... "kick is not a problem" vs "I am good at it and my hit% is 95% and I use it a lot" ... well that speaks for itself. In that post the only problem he mentions is selfinflicted damage... lol.

 

Well move on then... nothing more to see here we have had a debate and the conclusion is most players think kick is fine as it is.

[Arceri]

I don't really think it needs to be removed, I just think the damage needs to be reduced some. I find it annoying for someone that thinks they're good and only kick when you're close or force throw when you attack. That takes very little skill. But I find more people are willing to fight than ones that aren't but since Lightsabers do little damage in most cases compared to guns and such. People resort to kicking alot due to fustration mostly.

[icefox98]

Pull is gay, lightsabers are gay, push is gay, drain is gay, kick is gay, running without holding down a button is gay, light stance is gay, medium stance is gay, red stance is UBER gay, scripts are the EPITOME of gay, ugnaughts with purple lightsabers are gay, AND Boy George is the manliest thing Ive ever laid my eyes on.

 

Okay, people. We get the picture, you think JK2 is gay.

 

I know a good way to remedy your lack of intelligence and skill at jk2. Yes, that's right *gasps* I think that you lack SKILL, I do not think it's the "gay" game that makes you lose. Here is an easy, simple way to remedy all of your moronic problems.

 

QUIT PLAYING Jedi Knight II, and ABOVE ALL, QUIT POSTING ON THESE FORUMS.