obi Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Talliusc see that i can respect, he doesnt flame any of us fans or call us stupid. he simply states that he prefers the movies. thank you arkum for being mature and considerate. Ok.....settle down.......I haven't flamed the EU the first time..... And you think flaming the ones who flamed the eu makes you better? no, it doesn't. There is no reason to say that anyones opinions are "crap" or "stupid." It's not like they insulted your momma or something. Why did you flame someone over this? In my opinion, you shouldn't have......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woad Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by JandoFett1842 Movies are good, NJO is better! Err...Don't get me wrong, I love the NJO and all.... Heh...I have a feeling this thread might get ugly now... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 sorry obi-wan, but you may notice that i named no names. i have been flamed many times for liking the EU and i had to bleed out some aggression. i also dont think its flaming unless you are calling someone names. i think that the people who take my post as a personal insult are the ones who have flamed me in the past. and for the record i wasnt even talking about you. i respect your opinions and you havent every flamed me for my love of the EU (you called me a noob a few times but i got over that). i just want the flaming to stop. people who like the EU will continue to do so yet EU bashers still make fun of them in the hope that they will stop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obi Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Talliusc sorry obi-wan, but you may notice that i named no names. i have been flamed many times for liking the EU and i had to bleed out some aggression. i also dont think its flaming unless you are calling someone names. i think that the people who take my post as a personal insult are the ones who have flamed me in the past. and for the record i wasnt even talking about you. i respect your opinions and you havent every flamed me for my love of the EU (you called me a noob a few times but i got over that). i just want the flaming to stop. people who like the EU will continue to do so yet EU bashers still make fun of them in the hope that they will stop. sorry dude, I'm a dumb arse. I'm sorry. I read your message wrong. My fault. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woad Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Talliusc sorry obi-wan, but you may notice that i named no names. i have been flamed many times for liking the EU and i had to bleed out some aggression. i also dont think its flaming unless you are calling someone names. i think that the people who take my post as a personal insult are the ones who have flamed me in the past. and for the record i wasnt even talking about you. i respect your opinions and you havent every flamed me for my love of the EU (you called me a noob a few times but i got over that). i just want the flaming to stop. people who like the EU will continue to do so yet EU bashers still make fun of them in the hope that they will stop. *sighs* And this thread was going so well, nice discussions and everything... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I haven't read a good EU book since Shadows of the Empire... Things just went down-hill from the Jedi Academy books... the Suncrusher and the Deathstar Prototype (KJA is obsessed with superweapons!)... Exar Kun was cool, but Luke was such a fool in that book--not even able to sense a powerful Dark Jedi spirit in the temple. Oh, this place looks good, why don't I just plop down here with a bunch of impressionable (but incredibly powerful--even more powerful than my daddy, the Chosen One) young people. Low and behold, Exar Kun turns Kyp Durron to the Dark Side and has him go on a frikkin rampage throughout the universe in that bloody godmode-of-a-starship. But, fine, okay... then we have Hambly... dear FORCE! Going downhill swiftly... it's boring, it contradicts most of the other EU... this person just has no knowledge of SW... Luke knocked out and unable to use the Force because of a headach (uh, aren't Jedi supposed to HEAL themselves with the Force?). Oh yeah, and the EU authors, they don't like the Force... they don't know how to handle it... because they're all sci-fi writers, not fantasy writers, and so just can't wrap their technobabble brains around anything fantastical. Oh, we've gotta lose the Force. Ysalamiri! A bump on the head! Another bump on the head! And again and again and low and behold Luke's a frikkin wimp! Oh... I've gotten ahead of myself... Kreuller... quite possibly the poster-boy for lame-arse villians. The New Rebellion. The worst Star Wars book I've ever actually finished (stopped Children of the Jedi half-way through and would've burnt it in the trashcan if my trashcan wasn't plastic). Kreuller has this badarse superweapon... yes, I am Kreuller and I have this kickarse mask! I'm yet another of Luke's fallen students and I'm oh-so-bad. Want me to prove I'm bad? Okay, I'll just kill my lovah, like so! There! I'm bad! Fear me! And what is his superweapon? Exploding droids. That's right, exploding frikkin' droids. Of course, this makes no sense in the context of this very story. The droids blow up the Senate chamber (and of course Han Solo is suspected, even though he's a war-hero and husband to one of the leaders of the Republic), and yet the droids wipe out another world and leave absolutely no evidense whatsoever... everyone's just gone! Ooooh! Creepy! Oh, and Luke's been knocked out and can't use the Force, ho, hum. I almost burnt that book, it was so bad. And I wept for the future of Star Wars lit! But wait! Zahn's back! Zahn's writing a new duology! The father of contemporary SW fiction is back to pull us out of the dark ages! Alleluia! Okay... this is interesting... not so interesting... :yawn: It just doesn't feel like Star Wars. Luke scares himself into not using the Force because he think he'll go to the Dark Side if he does (Fear is the path to the Dark Side!). At least Zahn portrays Luke as a supremely powerful Forceuser who can do virtually anything--BUT HE CAN'T EXPLOIT IT! So a new way to avoid writing the Force besides Ysalamiri and getting konked over the head. Plot uninvolving... stupid aliens... Luke and Mara are finally engaged! Yay! But, of course, by now every author has basically raped Mara's character (figuratively speaking) until she's just not her badarse self and even Zahn can't bring her back. But there was one thing that could've saved it! One thing! Thrawn's back! He's right there! He's in a spartii cylinder and he wants to help the Republic against the super-creepy unknown threat! Go Thrawn! The most awesome EU villian and he'd be a good guy (uh... might take away a little of his badarse menace, but sounds good so far). NO! LUKE AND MARA KILLED HIM! And thus dies SW literature. Alright... I avoid SW books for a full year... a little more... and then I pick one up that's Prequel Based... alright... can't get any worse, right? Well, it's already hit frikkin rock bottom with Hambly and so it can't get any worse... but it's just the Eighth Level of Hell instead of the Ninth. Rogue Planet. All I really remember about this one is that I hate it... he's totally turned me off from any other SW books. There are, however, several EU books I can recomend. As I said, I enjoyed Shadows of the Empire... I, Jedi was an excellent book as well, enjoy it, Yoda_623; I, Jedi is one of the few books where I think they gave a Jedi a good amount of strength and didn't try to avoid the Force (though it is moronic that Corran can't use telekenisis). And last, but not least, I love Splinter of the Mind's Eye. Though it doesn't square perfectly with the movies, it is pure... it is untainted by book after book of declining quality... it is it's own place in the canon of the EU, it is unique and refreshing. I also enjoy reading the comics, and my favorites are anything in the Tales of the Jedi series. They have a very mythical quality that I enjoy. The Jedi are Jedi, the Sith are Sith and that's the way it is. The art is good, the story is excellent and thought-provoking. However, one comic that you have to avoid is "Union". "Union" destroyed what little credibilty Zahn had left after his duology. It is arguably the worst piece of EU literature ever published. That's my $0.02. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 sorry woad. if anybody finds my post from before to be insulting to them then i apologize. sorry for posting my opinion and more sorry for having one. i know i shouldnt care when people ive never met nor will meet insult me but i do, i dont know why that is but i do care and i get angry when it happens. its been a bad few days and i know that that doesnt give me the right to go off on a rant and piss other people off but spreading bad moods is something that i do often. once again i apologize to you all. im sorry for poisoning this thread with my negativity and insulting people who dont like me. i hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woad Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by Darth Talliusc sorry woad. if anybody finds my post from before to be insulting to them then i apologize. sorry for posting my opinion and more sorry for having one. i know i shouldnt care when people ive never met nor will meet insult me but i do, i dont know why that is but i do care and i get angry when it happens. its been a bad few days and i know that that doesnt give me the right to go off on a rant and piss other people off but spreading bad moods is something that i do often. once again i apologize to you all. im sorry for poisoning this thread with my negativity and insulting people who dont like me. i hope you can find it in your heart to forgive me. Woah, woah man! Take a step back there. The only thing I meant by my comment was to express dissapointment that we had gotten so far off the topic. Certainly Nothing about your personall opinions or anything of the sort. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 no no its quite alright, it was my fault to begin with. but getting back to the topic of the thread: i think the reason people diss the EU is because they read the wrong books, or they are more audio/visual people then they are imaginative... wait that didnt come out right. some people are more enthused by seeing and watching and listening to a fight scene then having it described to them. if anybody walked into a store and read one of tim zahns original trilogy then they would probably (not always but most times) want to read more EU and enjoy themselves. if however somebody bought the children of the rebellion (kueller book) then they probably wouldnt read more EU unless pushed. first impressions last. i was fortunate enough to start reading the EU when rogue squadron hit stores (the book not the game). i played the old x-wing games and read about the famous squadron (though truth be told i liked the TIE game better and i think they have a cooler design). then i went on to the thrawn series and since have read over 100 EU books. i wish i could say that ive reread most of those because they are good but i havent, ive read the same books many times over (like the x-wing series, I jedi, the thrawn trilogy. anything by michael stackpole in the NJO). so if you dont know much about the EU and are thinking about getting started but dont know where i recommend read the thrawn trilogy first. for chronological purposes (some stuff came before but not all that much) and because well those books are (in my opinion) among the best books ever read. but dont expect the EU to follow the precise storyline of the movies, there have been many contradictions (like when yoda was listed as having been on dagobah for 200 years. or obi wan on tatooine for 50). but they do keep a pretty close link to cannon.... there i am off topic again. my bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Woad Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I certainly agree with you there. It is very easy to go wrong when you first start reading the EU, there are some novels within the saga that are pretty much trash. On the flipside, however, there are some truly great ones out there as well. For example I think "I,Jedi" is one of the best out there and is my personal favorite. I reccomend it for anyone looking to get into the EU. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I've been reading the EU books since Splinter of the Mind's Eye and the original Han Solo Trilogy (I was 13 when these came out). I must say that there were always those that I really loved and those that I didn't, but I've always looked forward to the next. Some of my favorites were I, Jedi by Stackpole and the more recent Han Solo Trilogy by A.C. Crispin. Crispin really seemed to capture the essence of the SW Universe and I've read her works and Stackpoles at least twice each. There's a lot to be said about the inconsistencies between the EU books and the movies, but for the amount of information Lucas has been willing to release I think we can all agree that the EU writers, in general, did a fantastic job in filling in some of the voids. True, there were some writers I read that seemed to give the force a more "magikal" quality than expected. This always seemed to be an occasional thing from my perspective. And what these authors lacked in "Force skills" they appeared to make up in the areas of charactor development and plotline. As far as the NJO series, I have to say that in spite of killing off some of the key charactors (Chewbacca, Anakin) I'm very happy that there is a new "Galactic Threat" in the way of the Vong. I was worried that the the EU books were coming to an end because since much of the galaxy was tamed. My vote is that the EU isn't "crap." I like it. I don't like all of it, but I *do* like it in general. I also don't read the graphic novels and Young Jedi/Jedi Kids stuff either... I only stick to the adult oriented novels. I'd like to see some novels focus on the years surrounding the "Jedi Cleansing." I've even thought of writing a short story about a Jedi who chooses to use the Corporate Sector as a place to go underground and his journey to get there undetected. The Corporate Sector is one of those EU concepts that I've always found fascinating. (As far as I know, there has never been mention of the CS in the movies). Cheers SkinWalker Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZBomber Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I like the EU figurines, Kyle Katarn, Mara Jade, Darktrooper, etc...... And besides, Jedi Outcast IS a Expanded Universe thing! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ibballin Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 i think everyone (or a lot of people) doesnt like eu cause a lot of people dont like to read. personally i cant pick up any book and start reading. i know that sad but hey. also its like a remixed song. someone else is getting famous off of someone elses classic song. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackDove Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Movies = how it really is EU = expansion of Lucas' core imagination by other authors... As long as people think EU is how Lucas intended it to be, they will keep getting dissapointed even more and more... Some people need to get off the dork horse and see the complete picture.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 hey jandofart666 where on my post did I say that "EU is a bad way to spend your money" ? I never wrote that, dont quote me on things you made up in your head. don't be making up quotes that I never said. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[RAA]-=Chi3f=- Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 Originally posted by JandoFett1842 What he said! I don't diss EU. It comes in handy for explaining things that I .... umm... lack the words for. A lot of people expect the whole entire SW Universe to be layed out infront of them through the EU. That's not going to happen. It's more like a summary, or index and only covers a part of the whole story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 I love to read; I try to read for two hours every night... the thing is that there're too many good books in the world to waste my time with such "trashy nonsense" as the EU is putting out. I've been burnt every time I dared to pick up a SW book... they just screw up my ideas about what I see on screen and since Lucas pays no attention to them, why should I? They don't really expand my knowledge of the canonical SW uiniverse, and they're not fun to read (more like getting my teeth drilled w/out novacaine). I much prefer my own SW fan fic to that of the hack EU writers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 5, 2002 Share Posted August 5, 2002 guess the EU isnt for everybody, have you tried reading the new jedi order series? you might not like it but i am enjoying it. i just bought the newest book in the NJO titled "traitor" so far its great. the writing style is a bit strange but i love how it follows Jacen. ive been wondering what was happening to him recently. if anybody has read/is in the middle of reading this book please let me know waht you think of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Knight Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 question: How is the deathstar made according to eu? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nebelwerfer_ Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 some guy named bevel lemelisk worked for the emperor and designed the deathstar according to the EU Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SkinWalker Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I'll have to check out Traitor.. is it in paperback or hardcover? I, too, have been wondering what was up with Jacen. I suspected that he was involved with Vergere somehow, but I'm wondering also what her deal is. She popped up in a pre-Episode II book (Rogue Planet?) where Obi Wan and Anakin are sent to look for her, but she leaves with the aliens (which we now assume to be Vong). She gave her "tears" to Mara as a way to heal, but also seemed willing to help the Vong, so hopefully the newest novel will expose what her role is. Is she a Vong sympathizer? A Jedi mole? I expect the latter. The GOOD news is, that she should be able to fill in some of the information gaps that Luke had in the Jedi history (the stuff that Episode I and II revealed) and make EU and movies closer alike. Skin Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Exar Kun Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 I LOVE THE EU IT GIVES U MORE THAN A MOVIE EVER COULD 5 MOVIES 50 E BOOKS HMMMM. WHICH IS BETTER 10 HOURS OF MOVIES OR ENDLESS HOURS PF BOOKS SO SHUT UR FACES EU HATERS GO "EXPLOIT DELETED" URSELVES Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Talliusc Posted August 6, 2002 Share Posted August 6, 2002 well i finished reading Traitor (took me 3 hours because honestly i couldnt put it down even to go to the bathroom). a must have for anybody who likes force philosophy. ill give you all a few teaser quotes so if you dont want to know anything about the book dont look below. jacen:no. not the new republic's side. our side. yours and mine. jacen was speaking to vergere near the very end of the book. very nearly after they escape from coruscant. Remember ganner rhysode? well he is now a figure of vong legend known as the invincible giant who guards the gates into the lands of the dead. Jacen puts into affect the plan that will shatter the yuzaahn vongs religion over time and briefly is one of their gods. he holds no alliegance any more save to vergere as they are studen and teacher now, only they both teach and both learn. if you read this book you will get neverending philosophy from vergere. some of my favourite lines that she uses often are "in the story of your life, is this the best ending?" "everything i tell you is a lie" "everything i tell you is the truth" but to sum it all up, Jacen lives in the embrace of pain for some untold time until he learns how to use pain to strengthen him, he then gets moved to "the garden" where they are growing the yuzaahn vongs homeworld over top of coruscant all the while being taught by vergere that everything he knows is a lie. he makes friends with the yuuzahn vongs tools. he makes himself a suit of armor made of living amphistaffs and kills many vong. he learns that there is no darkside to the force. only dark people who wield it. letting loose the force within you is true power. for a time he gets cut off from the force by vergere as she was once a jedi and knew anakin skywalker. somehow he can still use a small part of the force that was never used before. this new power allows him to be more powerful than he ever thought possible. "the truth is so much more then can be described in words" is one of the more annoyingly used quotes. this book is too deep to describe fully, i recommend that everybody go read it. its incredibly interesting and brings many new perspectives to the SW universe. Jacen and vergere are no longer yuzaahn vong nor fosh nor human, they simply are. the book ends with leia learning that her son is still alive. the next book destiny's way is sure to be kick arse and i cant wait to see what Jacen will do to the jedi. He has a higher learning now that is shared only with Vergere as only they have lived in the vong force as well as the original galaxies. lukes gonna be pissed =P. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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