The Nature of Lightsaber Combat

[razorace]

I've been studying the movies to determine a way to improve the "realism" of the Jedi combat in the game. After studying the movies I've put together a basic theory on the nature of lightsaber combat. Let me know your guys'/gals' thoughts/additions/etc....

 

Initial Movie Saber Combat Theory:

 

1. Every attack has a defender and an attacker.

2. The battle has a momentum: One person tends to attack repeatedly, while the other defends until one decides to switch.

3. All actual damaging or alternative (non-saber attacks -> kick, backhand, force power, etc.) attacks come immediately after a saber connection.

4. All battlers slow to at least a quick walk speed when swinging or parrying.

5. All midair moves are used for manouvering and not attacking.

6. All spins are faster than in the game and don't seem to have any special effect.

7. Force power useage is limited to "easy" and"personal" powers. All other powers require heavy concentration.

8. Force powers are easily scaleable to the situation.

9. Combat is VERY tiring and fatigue is a serious issue.

 

Razor Ace

[Ariel_Angel]

OHHH I LIKE I LIKE!!! total realism there.

[razorace]

Actually those are just aspects of the movie battles. I haven't listed game changes to impliment this yet.

[Sivy]

I think the game could of had a 'block' key, like on Jedi power battles. That would make duelling more back and forth, one attacking whilst one defends instead of just hacking away at each other at the same time. Also to simulate fatigue, your force level could slowly drain at the duel goes on.

[razorace]

Some of my implimentation thoughts are here.

 

So what happens if you don't press the block key?

[Sivy]

then you get hit

[razorace]

Sorry I disagree, you can't just except people to totally rely on a block key to block all the attacks, That's a hellalot of button presses and people just don't have Jedi reflexes. I think the best solution is probably a block button AND a fair amount of auto-blocking.

[Koldsabercut]

You guys have to realize (I'm sure that you do) that there is really no way I can see to make completely realistic saber fighting in a PC game. It just probably won't happen. Now when ppl can afford high tech virtual-reality then we can use our own moves (we'll have those sensor balls all over use like in the making of movies) to fight. Now that is something to look forward to. This means we should always reach for the highest goal, whether it be in reach or not. Of course, if you try hard enough, you can suddenly make that goal a reality.

[razorace]

Well, of course. Like I said, real people don't have Jedi reflexes or the Force. Plus, you gotta make it fun.

[razorace]

Additional Notes (not all combat):

 

1. Lightsabers only cut with a direct hit, otherwise you get a sort of "saber burn" wound. This seems to apply to materials and fresh.

2. Jedi are able to survive terminal velocity falls without harm. However, it seems to fatigue them based on skill and the distance fell.

3. Luke's ROTJ costume has a cool Star Trek type sholder flap.

4. The Star Wars universe has ducks and a religious comcept of Hell.

5. Jedi don't flich.

[razorace]

More:

 

6. Jedi don't fear the saber blade at all.

7. Some of those Jabba slave girls look hot.

[Psionic Jedi]

Originally posted by razorace

2. The battle has a momentum: One person tends to attack repeatedly, while the other defends until one decides to switch.

3. All actual damaging or alternative (non-saber attacks -> kick, backhand, force power, etc.) attacks come immediately after a saber connection.

4. All battlers slow to at least a quick walk speed when swinging or parrying.

5. All midair moves are used for manouvering and not attacking.

6. All spins are faster than in the game and don't seem to have any special effect.

 

Razor Ace

 

2. Yep, you see Luke and Vader duking it out on Bespin Air Vanes; Luke fights till he's tired and he goes to Hide n' heal then Vader finds him and throws equip at him .

 

3. Very correct, you see in ROTJ, Luke sidekicks vader on the ramp after a saber connect...

 

4. yeah you don't see people running a marathon around their enemies, luke was keeping a brisk jog on jabba's sail barge

 

5. I think obiWans and Darth Maul's flips in EP1 were meant to pierce defenses but failed... they looked VERY similar to the Medium/yellow Finisher on JK2.

 

6. Spins are cinematic and don't seem to connect ;_;

[teutonicknight]

Hey, good post.

 

Very good points indeed...

 

7. Some of those Jabba slave girls look hot.

 

What i don't get is that at SW.com in the databank, it says that hutts are like worms, they are both male and female Then why are all Jabbas Slaves girls????

[razorace]

Jabba was sort of a pervert.

[razorace]

More Notes:

 

1. While watching ESB, I noticed a interesting comment tying into the whole life/death thing. During his Binding Force speech he says "inluminus beings are we, not this crude matter." Perhaps a sutle reverse foreshadowing?

 

2. Luke is rather fatigued after attempting to move the X-Wing. Yoda is also fatigued but not to the same degree as Luke, maybe your skill level decreases the drain on your fatigue or maybe the fatigue cost is higher if it is "out of your league".

 

3. Sabers seem to have variable ignition speeds based on the situation. In addition, sabers normally deactivate then you lose your grip on the blade. My guess is the ignition switch is a varible length control with a possible lock position for when you wish to throw the blade. The varible control probably controls the length of the blade, a quick flick would ignite the saber up to full length in a instant while a slow press would do a slow, dramatic ignition. (In addition, This would explain the "baby" blades on the sabers of the "baby" Jedi in Episode II.) This would be safer, effective, and reasonable. Now, if I could only figure out why so many people have their hands too damn high on the hilt all the time.....

[razorace]

Even more Random Thoughts:

 

4. Everyone is really big on kissing in ESB.

 

5. The ship crews on the Star Destroyers are totally scared of imperials are totally terrorified of Vader.

 

6. R2D2 can sit up when tipped over.

 

7. Yoda can be wrong. Also, he says that the Future is always filled with emotions. Does that mean the past is not?

 

8. Han's a bit of an @$$ in ESB. I think he's in love.

 

9. Lando is such a space pimp.

 

10. There's snakes on Dagaba.

 

11. I bet there's a event in Episode III where someone profices that a Skywalker will destroy the Emporer. Both the Good guys and Bad guys seem to be operating on this proficy. This may be a important event in III.

 

12. There's a white IG-88 in the junk pile on Bespin.

[razorace]

13. Non-Jedi Luke saber fights kind of rough. In RotJ, he's much more glaceful. The Force seems to encourage smooth, graceful movement.

 

14. Most saber strikes are never intended to hit the other Jedi. They seem to be made to make the opponent reveal an "opening".

[Dyslexic Jodi]

There's one MAJOR difference between the game and the movies, especially in duel.

 

1) In game, people are more worried/afraid of dying, therefore losing.

 

Funny.

[razorace]

And the irony is that death isn't perminate in the game.

[razorace]

15. Ben's Spirit acts like it can interact with physical objects (He steps around plants and sits on a rock while in the swamp)

[Psykotik]

Originally posted by razorace

7. Yoda can be wrong. Also, he says that the Future is always filled with emotions. Does that mean the past is not?

 

Not to split hairs, you have many good observations, but I believe the quote you're referring to is "Always in motion is the future." The past, of course, already happened, so isn't changing. However, the future all depends on little things falling into or out of place. I'll leave it at that so as to avoid a philosophical discussion.

 

A few (completely) random facts of my own:

 

The Emporer says that Lukes saber is "much like [his] father's", when, in fact, they look nothing alike.

 

The "bad guys" in the Star Wars universe take a certain pride in their evilness, and, with the exception of Dooku for a short time in Ep. 2, make no effort to hide that they are, in fact, bad ass evil mofo's

 

Darth Maul's death isn't to well thought through. A jedi can see things before they happen (Qui Gon's own words), so he would have seen Obi Wan's leap coming and not just stand there like a moron (Okay, so I'm a little bitter that Lucas killed off the most artistic fighter in Star Wars like a putz--he seems to enjoy doing that, first Boba Fett (I know according to EU he isn't actually dead, but that doesn't change anything) then Maul).

 

Luke, in the span of a day or two, goes from a panicy farm boy running from Imperial Star Destroyers, to a controlled leader attacking an armored battle station against impossible odds.

 

Noone seems to worry that Luke is listening to a voice in his head telling him to turn off his targetting computer.

 

How does the Death Star go? We never see any engines, but it sure does make good time.

 

Anakin / Vader is obsessed with talking when he should be fighting.

 

If Jedi use real crystals to get blue blades, and Sith use synthetic ones, where do green and purple lightsabers come from? (I know the desert/blue explanation, and Samuel L Jackson's special request, but play along)

 

People complain to much about Anakin's whining in Episode 2 and blame it on Christensen (sp?), but he's just following a script. He actually did a good job portraying the only slightly subdued anger behind his bickering, I thought.

 

Yes, Lando is indeed, a space pimp.

 

The Jedi, the supposedly non aggressive ones, almost always go on the offensive first in lightsaber fights.

 

Obi Wan has ups.

[Psykotik]

Just one more.

 

Although he may be a space pimp, Lando is also deffinately, in Samuel L Jackson's words "The whitest black man in Star Wars".

[razorace]

Not to split hairs, you have many good observations, but I believe the quote you're referring to is "Always in motion is the future." The past, of course, already happened, so isn't changing. However, the future all depends on little things falling into or out of place. I'll leave it at that so as to avoid a philosophical discussion.

 

I'll double check that.... Anyway, as for the future watching in SW, you'll notice that they can't seem to see the future very well except for a few proficies (The Choicen One; A Skywalker will kill the Emporer; etc.). This is probably a plot point in Episode III.

 

The "bad guys" in the Star Wars universe take a certain pride in their evilness, and, with the exception of Dooku for a short time in Ep. 2, make no effort to hide that they are, in fact, bad ass evil mofo's

 

yeah, but you'll notice that Vader's motives are the same as Anakin's in Episode II. (The whole "order" and forcing the "right" solution on other people concept) Vader never kills without purpose, he allows several mistakes out of the "Amerial of the Week" before he kills him. Also, the Emporer "hid" his evilness for decades before he made his move for power.

 

Noone seems to worry that Luke is listening to a voice in his head telling him to turn off his targetting computer.

 

Luke never mentions any voices in his head to anyone else in the movie....

 

Darth Maul's death isn't to well thought through. A jedi can see things before they happen (Qui Gon's own words), so he would have seen Obi Wan's leap coming and not just stand there like a moron

 

Maul is literally the disposible bad guy of the movie. Sides, after watching Epi II, the combat is even better in II vs. I. Sabering has improved in every additional movie in the saga. As for seeing things before they happen, I believe the Jedi can only "see" a fraction of a second into the future for combat reasons. In addition, I believe it's more of an instinctive feeling than an actual picture of the future. (like when you just "know" what someone is going to say next)

 

 

How does the Death Star go? We never see any engines, but it sure does make good time.

 

Probably a huge hyperdrive and gravity generaters instead of the more conventional ion engines.

 

Anakin / Vader is obsessed with talking when he should be fighting.

 

It's probably due to the Good/Evil conflict going on inside him. He didn't talk much during the Episode II battle.

 

If Jedi use real crystals to get blue blades...

 

It's probably the type of real crystal used, you gotta be vague when explaining nonexistant tech.

 

People complain to much about Anakin's whining in Episode 2 and blame it on Christensen (sp?), but he's just following a script. He actually did a good job portraying the only slightly subdued anger behind his bickering, I thought.

 

I agree, however he "soaped" up the love scenes just a little too much (with some work, the acting in Episode III will be perfect.). As for teh whining, you can see where Luke got it from.

 

The Jedi, the supposedly non aggressive ones, almost always go on the offensive first in lightsaber fights.

 

Obi Wan has ups.

 

Well, they "know" there's going to be a fight, may as well attack first.

 

ups?

 

Razor Ace

[razorace]

16. R2D2's statements and many alien's sound a lot like their meaning in english, sort of like the way Swedish sounds almost like English in many ways.

[Ariel_Angel]

You people obviously have WAAAAAAAAY too much time on your hands. For crying out loud it's a movie. Look at it like a movie. You act like it's a frickin religion. jeeeeeeeeeeez....