ArtifeX Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I was browsing through JahWarrior's thread earlier today, and it just suddenly didn't exist anymore. All the links into the thread started coming up as bad! Dammit! I was still taking notes from there! I've already bugged the staff about this, but they haven't reposted it yet. So, anyone who wanted to resummarize their suggestions for one of the future versions of ProMod had better do so here in case the thread is gone for good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garath Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 that'll teach you to take notes faster! Didn't you learn anything in college?! take a tape recorder Let's see.. the only thing I remember was you were going to have your arch-nemesis Garath beta test for you.... Actually.. nothing but respect from here.. if my mind wasn't so muddled I'd be participating in the recent suggestion threads .. but 12 hour work days are gettin to me :/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
crazyplaya73 Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 LOL I think I was the last person to post in it. It was a good thread so its too bad. I can tell you what I remember. We were debating the virtue of increasing blocking power while backpeddling. Some didn't like the idea others did. I don't like the idea. I think the best blocking should occur standing still or walking. If you are trying to evade the saber and it hits you you should not be rewarded with extra blocking ability. Now if your aim is good sure you should be able to block some or all of the hit but you should not get a blcoking advantage when you try to evade a hit. I was also talking about roll - I would love to see roll changed so that it is still very good for quick moves or evading but it doesn't take you so far away from where you started the roll. It should be common sence - you can not roll around on the ground faster then you can run. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Garath Let's see.. the only thing I remember was you were going to have your arch-nemesis Garath beta test for you.... Well, I'm hoping to finish up this weekend, so I'll probably be dropping into the official ProMod server to forcably draft people into beta testing service like I did Lazarous one time. So, if you wanna beta test, better be playin this weekend! I'll definitely give all the forum hounds first crack at it, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olisple Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 I'd love to beta test Artifex......You know how much I love the promod... I'm Olistotheple...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Too bad you won't see me on the forums, i always have "don't show status" checked, oh well i'll have to change it. Anyway we could just post suggestions here. like when a defence break happins (when the other persons saber is thrown back) why not make the backpedal and other speed MUCH slower, as even with yellow stance, unless you hop right beside them and attack, there is little chance that you'll benifit from it. Also, on a odd note, one of my DFA's got semi-blocked and the oppoent left before it was completed, however after i was done the DFA animation, i automaticly went into a defence break position, as if my saber was knocked away. Weird eh? BTW: I'd swich your server back to duel, as CTF (or holicron) need al lot of people to play a good game and are less popular Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by crazyplaya73 LOL I think I was the last person to post in it. It was a good thread so its too bad. I can tell you what I remember. We were debating the virtue of increasing blocking power while backpeddling. Some didn't like the idea others did. I don't like the idea. I think the best blocking should occur standing still or walking. If you are trying to evade the saber and it hits you you should not be rewarded with extra blocking ability. Now if your aim is good sure you should be able to block some or all of the hit but you should not get a blcoking advantage when you try to evade a hit. I was also talking about roll - I would love to see roll changed so that it is still very good for quick moves or evading but it doesn't take you so far away from where you started the roll. It should be common sence - you can not roll around on the ground faster then you can run. Ah, I remember now. My reaction to the backpedalling issue was this: Walking/running backwards will give you a defense bonus in beta 2, but moving forwards will give you a equal offensive bonus. So, people concerned about everyone playing too defensively just to gain the defensive advantage can breathe a sigh of relief. Moving sideways will provide no bonus either way. Ducking will provide a small defensive bonus, but also an equal offensive penalty. Rolling and jumping will both cause you to suffer a severe defensive penalty, though I'm considering a slight offensive bonus for jump during the downward half of the arc, possibly even velocity-dependent so that little jumps barely have any bonus, while big jumps give you a bigger bonus (though not too much--tops would be 5%). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 That's an excellent compromise Artifex. Moving side ways should maintain normal defense levels, as it is side-stepping maneuver, and if used properly, it gives you an advantage in swinging position. I have never experienced an "overrun" from an aggressive player when I backpeddle. Not once. But that's also because I didn't backpeddle from one side of the level to the next. The settings shoudln't be made so that every one stradegy is effective 90% of the time. Aggressive playing is certainly not the most effective thing to do. It's just the easiest, and therefore more commonly see, stradegy. I have been the poop at the aggressive people simply by backpeddling maybe three or four steps. Stopping to block the onslaught, side stepping, and then swinging. Works like a charm, unless the person outsmarts you. If we just boost defense for backpeddling, and give no reward to the offensive person, then backpeddling will become a premiere stradegy. It won't just be an option, it'll be THE option. You want to live, play aggressive and then fall back on backpeddle. Some other kind of gameplay has to counteract that stradegy. Giving foward motion this ability is the way to go. This will force players to use ALL the stradegies in union, rather than "i'm a backpeddle player" or "i'm an all out offensive player". Certainly you can still do it, but you can't rely on just that. Can't wait to see the blocking animations and the mind trick thing though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 21, 2002 Author Share Posted August 21, 2002 Originally posted by Doctor Shaft Can't wait to see the blocking animations and the mind trick thing though. Don't worry, they're coming. The blocking stuff is already done, mind trick/sight relationship is on the way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Olisple Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Is it possible to change the % of the damage subject to certain parts of the body? Like I dunno about all you, but when you try and dodge, a heavy hit nicks your foot n does 60 damage, I get a lil annoyed. The head hits should do lots, body a lil less I guess, limbs least or something of that sort..... I dunno how to do it or if ya can or anything. I'm just saying that it'd add to the realism of the saber fights. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Warrior Posted August 21, 2002 Share Posted August 21, 2002 Sorry artifex, I was getting pissed off with 'some twat' ripping the piss out of the way we set our server up and the thread was going well off course so i deleted it before i posted something I'd regret. The tosser insinuated that I was a n00b for wanting lower damage. The thread was supposed to be about promod, not my server settings. Hope it didnt inconvenience you too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zerowingzero Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 As for Mindtrick, i still feel it is pretty useless in a Duel enviroment. First off, you have to be in another room to do it so they won't catch on. Second you HAVE to turn off your saber, the glow gives you away too much. When the oppoent realizes you are useing it (They hear your footsteps or heal the huge initating sound) all they have to do is turn on seeing and that is that. Now with your mod , i'm wondering if seeing will have a distance relationship or a level one. As of now, the only real place to use it would be in Team dm matches or CTF What i would like to see: - muting of footsteps when useing it - geting rid of the glow (probably not possible) - Make the sound play only when the opponent is close, it's too much of a dead giveaway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MrCrusher Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 so i deleted it before i posted something I'd regret. Ah HA! So undelete it...Quick! I was just heating up the backpeddle debate when the thread disappeared... Some of my best persuasive writing was in that thread. The modifiers in ProMod's next release sound pretty cool. Never been done before.... I hope the "powers that be"(Lucas Arts, Raven) are taking notes for their next release. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 22, 2002 Author Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by Jah Warrior Sorry artifex, I was getting pissed off with 'some twat' ripping the piss out of the way we set our server up and the thread was going well off course so i deleted it before i posted something I'd regret. The tosser insinuated that I was a n00b for wanting lower damage. The thread was supposed to be about promod, not my server settings. Hope it didnt inconvenience you too much. Fortunately, i did manage to read most of the posts by backing up in my browser history. I don't think I missed anyone's post, but i could be wrong. Zero: Good suggestions on mind trick. i'll see what i can do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FatalStrike Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by Jah Warrior Sorry artifex, I was getting pissed off with 'some twat' ripping the piss out of the way we set our server up Yeah that was me. So sorry you can't debate an issue that you yourself brought up. Originally posted by Jah Warrior The tosser insinuated that I was a n00b for wanting lower damage. The thread was supposed to be about promod, not my server settings. I didn't insinuate anything. I came right out and said that your setting were noob friendly. Also I wasn't the only one that thought this. Don't take it personal man but I don't want the noobs highjacking ProMod like they did the official version. Fatal Out Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jah Warrior Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 LOL, Strange how do you know I was referring to you? Were you hoping for a reaction? or are you a self confessed twat or tosser? And another thing, have you tried these settings? Check the link in my sig for the server IP and I may just be able to show you what I mean. I guess you will slate it but at least then you can have a qualified opinion on the matter. I confess that the way we set our server up is not to make the 'Best' players win all the time. It is set to allow for fun fights that anyone can enjoy, if you like being killed with 2-3 normal swings, cool, personally i expect alot more from a fight and find little satisfaction from winning or losing so quickly. Ultimately its a game and as such is meant to be enjoyable and fun to PLAY. Realism is one thing but it can be taken too far. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 hey artifex, you gunna release a game manual with this that tells us everything? kind of like a souped up readme on a website? who knows, i might be able to help you out with that website if you want some help:) after all...i'm getting close to done on my wc3 website (NO I WON't give the link out here with over 60, 000 people to read because its not public yet [but i will give a hint...its on http://www.ogresnet.com network...so experiment with subdomains:)]) artifex, if you talk to me on msn i could show you some links of what i've done so you can decide if you want some help:) philandrew_t@hotmail.com (MSN Messenger/Email) twinsofdoom@ogresnet.com (Email) 149920497 (ICQ) philandrewT (AIM) good mod, i like it:) i had a suggestion for it...but i knd of forgot it:confused: oh well...my daily comic in my email just arrived, i'll post again if i remember http://jkhq.ath.cx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 i found and bumped the other thread:) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 22, 2002 Author Share Posted August 22, 2002 I think what Jah is saying that is he doesn't enjoy 10 minutes of waiting in line in a 16 player duel server to have a fight decided in 20 seconds with the higher saber damage. I can understand that. Many people don't like short fights. I'd suggest that anyone wants longer duels in the Duel gametype just set the fraglimit to 2 rather than one so that you get a best 2 out of 3 setup like the old street fighter games. That's actually what I prefer, as it lessens the likelyhood of a better player getting dethroned because he goofed up once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 22, 2002 Author Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by Twins of Doom i found and bumped the other thread:) You did? Where is it? I thought Jah deleted it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 http://www.lucasforums.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=786000#post786000 that's it isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ArtifeX Posted August 22, 2002 Author Share Posted August 22, 2002 Nope, that's not the one, but thanks for the volumous b*u*m*p! It was JahWarrior's "Promod - whats right and whats wrong" thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Halowse Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Hey guys. I played on a ProMod server for many hours last night and would like to register some opinions. First, the idea of skill based factors over random calls is a REALLY good one, and I really hope that it works out... but as of right now, the new math does not offer any bottomline gameplay advantage over 1.04... it seems to be a matter of trading one set of weaknesses for another. Things I noticed: - at LEAST 20 different times, I was very healthy, caught another player with the most deadly part of my swing, with the deadly middle of my blade, right through their chest, while their arms were back over their head preparing to strike, only to be rewarded with my own death. Adding and subtracting modifiers to peoples attacks is a neat idea, but if I cut the man in half first... I should win. Always. - many times I would get behind an unsuspecting combatant, and strike them repeatedly, right in the back, with an overhead forward medium... and they did not block... but also would not die. Receiveing a string of strikes to unguarded parts of your body should result in significant damage and death. - many times I would "get inside" anothers' saber throw, and strike them HARD while their saber was out flying around, when they were more or less defenseless... but I would not get the kill. People who have no defense should fall in one strike... everytime. (except perhaps if they were heavily shielded) - the combat system seems to favor forward strikes over lateral attacks. Side stepping and running a man down laterally (like a defense back contains a reciever) is an important tactic and seems to suffer a penalty in promod... many solidly landed lateral strikes counted for nothing when containing sideways, while weakly timed forward counters would kill. - the CSC penalizes surprise attacks. Part of playing in character means ambushing an opponent from time to time. An ambush tactic of mine is to wait around a corner, and ANTICIPATE when the opponent is going to round the corner, to clothesline him with a heavy strike to the neck. Doing this in ProMod, your blade gets knocked away, even though the opponent is completely surprised and caught swinging, off guard or flatfooted. Whatever your tactics, sometimes you need to initate a swing to anticpate movement, and ProMod appears to penalize this. - spinning strikes and hits to the side and back, especially reversals, do not count for much in ProMod. Again, wide open hits to an opponent are going unregistered. Not everyone wants to fight front to back. - velocity based jumping attack bonus is a good idea. Last night I jumped off a ramp, caught my oponent with with a perfectly timed red strike, whle his saber was swung into the ground only to be "blocked" and killed with a pretty lame counter swing. I should have cleaved him in half like a cartoon, but again was only rewarded with defeat. These are my observations from my first session, take them constructively. ********* May I suggest... - that blocking be HIGHLY dependant on CSC accuracy... therefore an HIGHLY intentional act. - that strikes count when they hit unguarded flesh, regardless of the CSC position when they were initiated. - that damage and defense breaking be dramatically scaled depending on what part of the swing makes contact. Making the heart of the swing the most deadly is the best way to assure people are attempting to time their strikes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by zerowingzero As for Mindtrick, i still feel it is pretty useless in a Duel enviroment. First off, you have to be in another room to do it so they won't catch on. Second you HAVE to turn off your saber, the glow gives you away too much. When the oppoent realizes you are useing it (They hear your footsteps or heal the huge initating sound) all they have to do is turn on seeing and that is that. Now with your mod , i'm wondering if seeing will have a distance relationship or a level one. As of now, the only real place to use it would be in Team dm matches or CTF What i would like to see: - muting of footsteps when useing it - geting rid of the glow (probably not possible) - Make the sound play only when the opponent is close, it's too much of a dead giveaway. yes, it's useless in all ways....but i went on the server once EVERYBODY was using mind trick...but they NEVER benefitted from using it, it was so stupid i asked one guy why he was constantly using mind trick even when nobody ever even did 1 damage because of it......he said "because" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twins of Doom Posted August 22, 2002 Share Posted August 22, 2002 Originally posted by ArtifeX Nope, that's not the one, but thanks for the volumous b*u*m*p! It was JahWarrior's "Promod - whats right and whats wrong" thread. oh, lol and do you want help with the promod site...because no offense....but it needs work (that's the nice way of saying it sucks...lol) well, my wc 3 site is going public now so i'll give you links to what i've done http://jkhq.ath.cx http://wc3.ogresnet.com http://jkhq.ath.cx/netscape/index.php just trying to help;) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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