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Worst Jedi in ep2?

Pada-Wan

By Pada-Wan
in Prequel Trilogy

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Count Tyranus Newbie

Count Tyranus

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The Jedi shot by Jango Fett (while Count Dooku looked on: lazy old man...) was that ugly-looking Trebor. I agree: to be shot by a worthless bounty hunter when you are a powerful Jedi Knight is quite stupid.

 

ET Warrior, what do you mean: "and here he is again folks, it's holo-sid......"? I've always been here, dammit! The reason this post is as Count Tyranus, however, is because I found a nice little picture of Dooku and wanted to use it as an avatar. A picture of Count Dooku under the name "Holo-Sidious" would be silly...

 

Now, usually I would include a 'smilie' here, but LucasForums don't seem to have a 'smilie' of Count Dooku! How can that be? He deserves a decent picture!!!

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Count Tyranus Newbie

Count Tyranus

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Yes, and he died trying because no-one is stupid enough to take on Count Dooku. Look at the evidence:

 

1: Trebor. Died.

2: Anakin. Lightning.

3: Obi-Wan. Arm and leg slices.

4: Anakin again. Arm chopped off.

5: Yoda. If the fight continued after Dooku crushed Obi-Wan and Anakin, I think that Yoda would have been seriously wounded, if not destroyed.

 

Face it: Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus id the most powerful character from AOTC (maybe even from the whole Star Wars series) and even the mighty Master Yoda could not defeat him!

 

COUNT DOOKU/DARTH TYRANUS RULES!

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Deetox187 Newbie

Deetox187

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lol gimme a break, the only reason Trebor didn't chop Dooku in half was because his big bad bodyguard Jango saved his ass. (If hes so tough why does he need a bodyguard?) I admit he whooped Obi-Wan and Anakin but he was on the defensive the entire fight with Yoda. Neither really had much of an advantage over the other but if one did it was Yoda not Dooku. Lets not forget it was Dooku who pussied out of the fight when he made the pillar fall towards the injured Jedi.. he did that because he knew Yoda was about to lay the smack down.

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Count Tyranus Newbie

Count Tyranus

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Dooku wasn't defeated by Trebor because of Jango (fair enough), but it was only because Jango saw an enemy and attacked. If Jango wasn't there, Dooku would of defended himself and sliced that big ugly green Jedi in half. Also, Dooku wasn't on the defensive while fighting Yoda. Remember Yoda's own words:

 

"A Jedi always uses the Force for defence. Never attack."

 

This means either Yoda was defending himself against Dooku or he is the biggest hypocrite in the galaxy! Granted, Yoda is amazing, but Count Dooku was equally amazing in all his duels. Also bear in mind that Yoda came into that fight fresh: Dooku had just fought two very experianced and powerful Jedi. Plus, Dooku didn't send that large pillar down to end the duel: his plan all along was escape. He used it as a distraction (also hoping to remove the two Jedi in the process) so he could carry out his orders.

 

Yoda: Good.

Obi-Wan: Good.

Anakin: Good.

Count Dooku/Darth Tyranus: Amazingly, skillfully powerful.

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AgentSmith Newbie

AgentSmith

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I respect the fact that you're a fan of Dooku/Tyranus but it's obvious and the intent of Lucas to show and integral part of the story that Dooku himself is no match for Master Yoda.

 

Master Yoda was about to finish or Dooku and Dooku had the pillar crahsing down towards Obi-Wan and Anakin knowing Matser Yoda would choose to save them, hence Dooku could escape before falling victim to Master Yoda.

 

(Such was crystal clear in the cut parts of the AOTC battle sequence and in the comic book adaptation and novel.)

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ET Warrior Newbie

ET Warrior

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I agree, Dooku ran because Yoda was going to mess him up. Quite obviously so. And then the part where their blades are locked and Yoda says "Fought well you have, my old padawan" It's obvious that Yoda was prepared to finish it, which is why dooku got the slightly panicked look on his face and dropped a pillar on obi and anakin.

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Deetox187 Newbie

Deetox187

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Originally posted by Count Tyranus

Dooku wasn't defeated by Trebor because of Jango (fair enough), but it was only because Jango saw an enemy and attacked. If Jango wasn't there, Dooku would of defended himself and sliced that big ugly green Jedi in half.

 

Not true at all, Trebor already had his saber ignited while Dooku was just standing there. If Jango didn't save him there was NO time for Dooku to defend himself, he was mincemeat.

 

Also, Dooku wasn't on the defensive while fighting Yoda. Remember Yoda's own words:

 

"A Jedi always uses the Force for defence. Never attack."

 

This means either Yoda was defending himself against Dooku or he is the biggest hypocrite in the galaxy!

 

This i agree with you on, Yoda IS the biggest hypocrit in the galaxy for saying that (actually Lucas is). Think about it, when have you ever seen a Jedi use only defense in a fight? look at Obi Wan, Qui Gon, Anakin, Windu, Yoda etc.. They ALL attacked their opponents in an offensive fashion, i have no idea why George Lucas would allow such a contradiction but he did.

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Sivy Newbie

Sivy

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"A Jedi always uses the Force for defence. Never attack."

when does yoda say this, i can't remember it.

 

anyway, the way i look at it is that just because they make the first move doesn't mean it's not in defence, i suppose it the way you define it.

the whole reason maul was at the naboo hanger was to confront obi-wan and qui-gonn, therefore taking aggressive stance. he went looking for them, not the other way round.

At the battle of geneosis (spelling?) Mace simply held his lightsaber at jango asking for obi & anakin to be set free. so he wasn't attacking first.

 

it's all about point of view (like obi-wan said to luke)

a jedi's definition of "A Jedi always uses the Force for defence. Never attack." may be different than say karate where that would simply mean that you don't hit first.

Also remember that a jedi has senses, so he/she would be able to sense the aggression in their opponent.

 

that's the way i see it, so imho it isn't a contradiction

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Deetox187 Newbie

Deetox187

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I believe it was in ESB Yoda said that.. but after thinking about it a bit more i've changed my mind. He says "the force" is never used for attack, which is actually quite true. I can't remember seeing a Jedi use the force to attack an enemy, only their lightsabers.

 

so yeah i was wrong, sorry. :)

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Jedi_Monk Newbie

Jedi_Monk

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I agree with ET Warrior; Yoda was using the Force to defend Obi-Wan and Anakin (both of whom would've been slashed up into a lot of little pieces if the Green One hadn't showed up in time), and was therefore well within the restraits of Jedi philosophy.

 

Coleman Trebor reminds me of... me in a Wheel of Time citadel match. The goal is to infiltrate the other team's citadel and steal their two Seals. They have a bunch of traps set up and always have a guard or two ready to "blast you into oblivion". So all you can do is gather up as many weapons and shields as you can and make The Run. You don't concentrate on the enemies and just try to get past the traps as fast as possible... you just keep your eyes on the Seals and go for them! You'll probably die, but you have to try. That's what Trebor was doing--to kill Dooku meant a quick end to the battle, so he risked it all, jumped up there to take out Dooku alone--and got hammered.

 

He's probably one of the bravest Jedi in the Battle of Geonosis, for what that's worth.

 

Jedi_Monk.jpg

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Taos Newbie

Taos

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Originally posted by Jedi_Monk

He's probably one of the bravest Jedi in the Battle of Geonosis, for what that's worth.

 

Yeah, but unfortunatly death is what usually happens to those who are brave or try to be hero's......

 

If he could have killed Dooku, it would have a drastic effect on the out come of things.....

 

Of course we already know what that is..........:deathstar.

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Count Tyranus Newbie

Count Tyranus

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I agree: the comic strip, novelisation and (some parts of) the film are made to make Count Dooku look like he is loosing the duel against Yoda, however Dooku's plan was escape all along. He intended to get away from Geonosis from the beginning of that battle (along with his Super-Weapon plans), so to say that Dooku ran away from Yoda is unfair. True, Dooku realised that if Yoda had defeated him then the Death Star plans would have been stranded on Geonosis, and this may have lead to Dooku using a more defensive posture, but he never simply ran away from the Master Jedi to protect himself. Everyone in that duel had responsabilities: Dooku to the Death Star plans and his Master, Obi-Wan to his Padawan, Anakin to Padme and his Master and Yoda to the fallen Jedi.

 

To say that Trebor would have killed Count Dooku in the Geonosian VIP Box is wrong. Look carefully: Dooku has one hand on his lightsaber. Remember back to ROTJ, when Darth Vader swings at Luke ("You are unwise to lower your defenses!") and the young Jedi only needs half-a-second to ignite his lightsaber and block the blow. Dooku would have had no problem in defeating Trebor. Thanks to Jango Fett, however, we are left waiting another twenty minutes to see the Sith Lord in action...

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Deetox187 Newbie

Deetox187

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Look closely? kind of ironic for you to say that cause Dooku's hand was not on his lightsaber in that scene. All he did was pull his cape back to uncover the saber, he did not have time to grab it, ignite it and block Trebors attack. :rolleyes:

 

And its too bad Lucas didn't stick with the original fight he had planned for Yoda and Dooku because if he did you'd have nothing to argue about. Can't remember all the details but Yoda was supposed to jump on Dooku's head and was about to stab downwards into his skull when Dooku made the pillar fall, distracting Yoda from delivering the final blow.. something like that, maybe someone else who knows more about it can back me up.

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Count Tyranus Newbie

Count Tyranus

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In the original fight sequence (which will be included on the DVD, due out November), Count Dooku is being forced back by Yoda. Dooku uses the Force to grab Obi-Wan's blue lightsaber and he uses two blades to fend off the Jedi Master. Yoda, however, evens things up by knocking Dooku's red-bladed Rapier out of his hand, leaving Dooku with one normal lightsaber. Yoda then leaps through the air and strikes down on Dooku knocking the Sith Lord to the floor. Yoda stands in front of Dooku, his green blade positioned just underneath his chin. Dooku then crashes the pillar, escapes and flies to Courscant.

 

There are two reasons why George Lucas left this version from the film. One: This version means Dooku was defeated by Yoda, and George wanted to be fair: although Yoda is the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, it is a tiny bit unbelievable that a six-foot human can be overcome by a two-foot imp (George said this, not me). Two: According to several websites, Count Dooku will kill Mace Windu in Episode III. Now, if Dooku can be easily defeated by the greatest Jedi but easily kill the second-greatest Jedi, this means he should have had a better chance against Yoda (which he does in the final version of Episode II). The second reason is just rumour, but does explain why Dooku wasn't defeated by Yoda.

 

Come on, guys, give Count Dooku a break! He is a great villain, a powerful adversary and a master swordsman!

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