Gun Debate

[Jatt13]

And hey, it's the USA. What's the probability that you'll NOT have a bat yourself ?

 

well, that's probably true. i have a few in my house. but seriously, my room is on the second floor of my house, and my bats are in my garage on the first. if someone broke in and i wanted to get one, i'd have to run all the way down a hall, down some stairs, and out a door before i could get them, and if the guy broke in anywhere near the front of my house, he could intercept me. i don't have a gun in my room, but i do know where one is and could get to it if absolutely neccisary. of course, my dad would wake up and get it when i tried to, but it'd still protect me.

 

However, if there had been no guns in the picture in the first place, the robber would have never broke into the house. 0 people dead.

 

just because a guy doesn't have a gun doesn't mean he won't break in. and just because he doesn't have a gun doesn't mean he won't kill you.

 

Well, nobody carries only checks.

 

i know that, but that's sort of what you suggested to do, and i was just showing how it wouldn't work:

 

And if you really for some reason spend a lot of money in public each day, carry a check book or a credit card,

 

i think this entire debate is pretty useless, because no matter what we say here, it's not going to do anything. and we just keep going in circles. i'm probably gonna stay out of this for a while. i'll still look at it, and if i see something i completely disagree with i'll jump back in. i can see where you're coming from, but i still disagree and think there'll always be guns around. oh well.

[NRAGunsForAll]

ok..i used to be post on this forum and one of my friends notified me about this...."Assault on our rights" look if you dont like fact that we as americans have the god given right to bear arms, then you dont have to buy one..its that simple...oh and if you still feel so strong about it then you can run for president and change all these things..and you talk about how people should just run when they are being raped, well just for your information i know a few close people who have been raped or atemped rape..and if you wanna know, they would be more than happy to have a .45 and to see the sick perverts brain and pulverised bone splattered one the ground...so if you dont like the fact that we as americans have this right, then leave...you tell any veteren that guns are wrong, and that they didnt put there lives on the line for our freedom and they didnt see things that can only haunt our dreams. If you dont like your rights then go somewere were you dont have them. Thats all I have to say about this issue.

[xwing guy]

Amen to that brother!

[Young David]

Originally posted by NRAGunsForAll

... if you dont like fact that we as americans have the god given right to bear arms, then you dont have to buy one..its that simple...

 

This shouldn't be my bussiness, because I'm under a different law, but let met me write this as if I were a U.S. citizen.

 

It's not like I don't like to have to a gun and want the law to think the same. I don't want other people to have a gun !!! I'm smart enough not to buy one, others, it seems, are not !

 

Originally posted by Boba Rhett

As it stands now:

 

Average Joe : Have Guns and Outlaws: Have Guns

 

Now, if we outlaw guns,

 

Average Joe: No Guns and Outlaws: Still have guns

 

Do I like it that any Joe can get a gun? Not very much but the thought of what I said above makes me cold and frightened.

 

There is a big difference between those situations ... a lot less people have guns. You know what means? A lot less accident / killing potential, a lot less change of a satanic kid killing his teachers and fellow students.

 

Are you jealess of that outlaw Rhett? Are you jealess of the cops and the army? You don't need a gun unless you have to kill someone. If you call killing a burglar self defense than you are just as dangerous as that outlaw.

 

You know what I and most of my fellow dutch men are amazed off? That there even is a discussion like this. We had some tv special a while ago about this how Americans stand on their rights to own a gun, even with all the misuse going on. America makes it easy for terrorists this way.

 

Normaly in a discussion I try to view the statement from both sides and establish my own opinion based on both sides. Here I can absolutely not.

 

Therefore I will stop now for two reasons.

1. It makes me angry. I've read Havoc's story and read the heartless replies. I don't want to be angry with anyone.

2. It's not my country. I don't have to stand up for your rights. I've never been a U.S. fan and this is one of the reasons. I'm happy that my neighbour cannot legaly own a gun, makes me feel safe. It's a U.S. problem wich will probably not be solved before there comes a president with more sense (You got it, I don't like Bush either).

 

There ... I'm gonna read happy posts now.

[Surfnshannon]

okay I'm goign to participate in this debate...but here is a true story...

 

 

A friend of my sister (who is now 19) back in the day, when they were I think in the 5th grade. Well she was left home a lot - single parent home. She, the girl, I did not like a lot. For a 5th grader she was kinda...slutty? Anyways one day she was messing around with her friends. She decided she wanted to show off her mom's shot gun. She pointed it at one kid at the front door and his best friend was behind him. Well the shotgun somehow went off. Blew through the first boy and the other boy got his face mamed. The first boy died and the second had to have MANY surgeries on his face - and he still doesn't look normal. The mom was arrested and I believe she is or got out but she did serve prison time for this.

 

If her mom hadn't have owned a gun - this would never had happened.

 

If her mom didn't leave the damn thing loaded. It would have never happened.

 

But why did the girl need to show it off and play with it??

 

I don't know. Many people wanted to know.

 

Anyways. We always here about the child who got a hold of the parents gun and took it to school. Blew a couple teachers and students away etc.

 

I will not allow a gun in my house. For the pure reason of that it is a lot of risk. To yourself, your family etc. If someone really broke into my house...I doubt I'd have the balls to shoot them. I think I'd miss and get killed. And if the robber is going to steal something from you - its highly unlikely you would even have a chance to grab your gun.

 

Now if I lived in the ghetto...feared for my life daily...I might have a different opinion. But there are a lot of alternatives. Such as having an alarm on your house. Taking precautions - own mace or a tazer. Etc. No reason to own a gun.

[Breton]

Let me put my opinion on guns this way:

 

Guns = Killing

 

Guns main purpose is to kill other people, so that is correct.

 

Killing = Death

 

So guns are death. A death that comes always too early, a death that causes great pain to family and friends of the victim. It does NOT matter if this victim was an innocent or a mugger, he/she has still someone that cares, that will be in great pain when this person dies. Death is in many ways a horrible thing. And especially this type of death that robs the victim of many years of living, of being alive, of experiencing happiness, sadness, love, and caring.

 

Many of these deaths could be avoided if guns would be outlawed, for then, it WILL be much harder for criminals to get guns, it WILL reduce gun crime and shooting, it WILL be able to powerfully reduce school shootings. As long as you give it a chance. Many of you don't.

[idiot00001]

Many of these deaths could be avoided if guns would be outlawed, for then, it WILL be much harder for criminals to get guns

 

It will make it harder for criminals to buy guns, but it would not stop a determined person from getting a gun. No matter what laws are made criminals always will be able to get guns. It will make a criminal think about the crime they are commiting before they do it, but it will not stop many violent crimes.

 

it WILL reduce gun crime and shooting

 

It didn't in Great Britain.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59866,00.html

 

it WILL be able to powerfully reduce school shootings

 

It will reduce school shootings, but so would locking up guns properly. If he/she is determined enough, anybody could get a gun, so it will not stop all school shootings.

 

Guns main purpose is to kill other people

 

I know many people that have guns and none of them have ever used a gun on another person before and would never think about using one on another person except for in self defense when their life or others are in danger. Also if people are educated about guns and properly used/stored their guns there would be very few gun accidents.

[Breton]

Originally posted by idiot00001

 

It will make it harder for criminals to buy guns, but it would not stop a determined person from getting a gun. No matter what laws are made criminals always will be able to get guns. It will make a criminal think about the crime they are commiting before they do it, but it will not stop many violent crimes.

 

 

 

It didn't in Great Britain.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,59866,00.html

 

 

 

I was talking about the effects over time by outlawing guns. Nearly all of the countries that have very strict gun laws have also lower crime rate than US. And these would undoubtfully have had much higher crime rates if you permitted guns.

 

 

It will reduce school shootings, but so would locking up guns properly. If he/she is determined enough, anybody could get a gun, so it will not stop all school shootings.

 

That is right, if you forbid guns, it will be very hard to get them all, and at first people will have little problem on buying a gun illegally. But over time, things will probably change, if the police do their job good enough, and there will be less and less guns to get.

 

 

 

I know many people that have guns and none of them have ever used a gun on another person before and would never think about using one on another person except for in self defense when their life or others are in danger. Also if people are educated about guns and properly used/stored their guns there would be very few gun accidents.

 

Yes, I meant the gun in itself, wich is not meant for protecting, it fires a projectile, projectile hits target and kills it. Body armour is for protecting, bullets don't deflect bullets.

[jediduo]

Outlawing guns would do absolutely no good. You know what happened after we outlawed alcohol? Crime and murder rates rose. The same thing will happen.

[idiot00001]

That is right, if you forbid guns, it will be very hard to get them all, and at first people will have little problem on buying a gun illegally. But over time, things will probably change, if the police do their job good enough, and there will be less and less guns to get.

 

Jediduo is right, it will be very similar to the Prohibition, and even if guns are outlawed for a long time you would always have guns coming in from across the borders illegally.

 

Drugs are a good example of how hard it is to completely keep something illegal from crossing the border. It would be even harder to keep guns out, because there would be no way to stop the production, unlike drugs, where you can spray pesticides, etc.

 

I think this may have been mentioned in another gun thread, but it is also easier to trace who bought/used the gun if it was bought in the U.S., compared to guns bought on the Black Market.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

ok..i used to be post on this forum and one of my friends notified me about this...."Assault on our rights" look if you dont like fact that we as americans have the god given right to bear arms, then you dont have to buy one..its that simple...oh and if you still feel so strong about it then you can run for president and change all these things.. (...) so if you dont like the fact that we as americans have this right, then leave...

 

This is one argument I just plain out don't understand.

This is not about our rights, this is about preserving life.

If the USA legalized narcotics and you had to sit there and watch as a high rate of the people got addicted and died, and when you told them to stop using drugs, they told you an anti-democrat fighting against their rights?

 

The Constitution might just be wrong. Live with it. Just that it's your right doesn't have to mean it's something you should do.

 

This is not about me taking your rights away; it's about us not wanting to see people die. It's like me saying "hey, if you don't like that people do drugs, don't do drugs".

 

you tell any veteren that guns are wrong, and that they didnt put there lives on the line for our freedom and they didnt see things that can only haunt our dreams. If you dont like your rights then go somewere were you dont have them. Thats all I have to say about this issue.

 

No one in this thread has stated that we take the Armed Forces' arsenal away. The Army has all rights to have guns, our Navy and Air Force has all rights to have missiles. This is off-topic. If narcotics were legalized, would you fight against it or leave the U.S.A.?

 

It will reduce school shootings, but so would locking up guns properly. If he/she is determined enough, anybody could get a gun, so it will not stop all school shootings.

 

Many school shootings are carried out by elementary/middle school kid. Yes, a determined middle school kid can get his hands on drugs. But hey, a "determined" 5th grader who gets his hands on a firearm when almost no houses have them? Tell me how, please.

 

I know many people that have guns and none of them have ever used a gun on another person before and would never think about using one on another person except for in self defense when their life or others are in danger. Also if people are educated about guns and properly used/stored their guns there would be very few gun accidents.

 

How about their kids? Yeah, they can keep ammo away from gun, but hey, they supposedly have to have the gun ready, don't they? So if they keep the ammo away from the gun.. well, they keep it close to the gun to load it in a hurry, which means a "skilled" kid can arm the gun...

 

well, that's probably true. i have a few in my house. but seriously, my room is on the second floor of my house, and my bats are in my garage on the first. if someone broke in and i wanted to get one, i'd have to run all the way down a hall, down some stairs, and out a door before i could get them, and if the guy broke in anywhere near the front of my house, he could intercept me. i don't have a gun in my room, but i do know where one is and could get to it if absolutely neccisary. of course, my dad would wake up and get it when i tried to, but it'd still protect me.

 

Your argument is that you can't get to it? Well, here's a bright idea: Move it to somewhere where you can get to it. If you/your parents can keep a gun in your room, you/they can keep a bat there.

[Dagobahn Eagle]

ok..i used to be post on this forum and one of my friends notified me about this...."Assault on our rights" look if you dont like fact that we as americans have the god given right to bear arms, then you dont have to buy one..its that simple...oh and if you still feel so strong about it then you can run for president and change all these things.. (...) so if you dont like the fact that we as americans have this right, then leave...

This is one argument I just plain out don't understand.

This is not about our rights, this is about preserving life.

 

If the USA legalized narcotics and you had to sit there and watch as a high rate of the people got addicted and died, and when you told them to stop using drugs, they told you an anti-democrat fighting against their rights?

The Constitution might just be wrong. Live with it. Just that it's your right doesn't have to mean it's something you should do.

This is not about me taking your rights away; it's about us not wanting to see people die. It's like me saying "hey, if you don't like that people do drugs, don't do drugs".

you tell any veteren that guns are wrong, and that they didnt put there lives on the line for our freedom and they didnt see things that can only haunt our dreams. If you dont like your rights then go somewere were you dont have them. Thats all I have to say about this issue.

No one in this thread has stated that we take the Armed Forces' arsenal away. The Army has all rights to have guns, our Navy and Air Force has all rights to have missiles. This is off-topic. If narcotics were legalized, would you fight against it or leave the U.S.A.?

It will reduce school shootings, but so would locking up guns properly. If he/she is determined enough, anybody could get a gun, so it will not stop all school shootings.

Yes, a determined middle school kid can get his hands on drugs. But hey, a "determined" 5th grader who gets his hands on a firearm? Tell me how, please.

I know many people that have guns and none of them have ever used a gun on another person before and would never think about using one on another person except for in self defense when their life or others are in danger. Also if people are educated about guns and properly used/stored their guns there would be very few gun accidents.

How about their kids? Yeah, they can keep ammo away from gun, but hey, they supposedly have to have the gun ready, don't they? So if they keep the ammo away from the gun.. well, they keep it close to the gun to load it in a hurry, which means a "skilled" kid can arm the gun...

well, that's probably true. i have a few in my house. but seriously, my room is on the second floor of my house, and my bats are in my garage on the first. if someone broke in and i wanted to get one, i'd have to run all the way down a hall, down some stairs, and out a door before i could get them, and if the guy broke in anywhere near the front of my house, he could intercept me. i don't have a gun in my room, but i do know where one is and could get to it if absolutely neccisary. of course, my dad would wake up and get it when i tried to, but it'd still protect me.

Your argument is that you can't get to it? Well, here's a bright idea: Move it to somewhere where you can get to it .

Guns : Ban :: Alcohol : Ban

Negative.

Alcholol: In very small amounts, it's good for you (I don't drink, but it still is ). In big amounts, it'll kill you. When banned, it becomes an illegal industry.

Guns: When used properly. It kills guilty people. When used wrong, it kills innocents. When banned, it becomes an illegal industry.

Narcotics: When used "properly", it makes you addicted and eventually kills you. When used "wrong", it kills you right away. When banned, it becomes an illegal industry.

 

I think the correct one here is Guns : Ban :: Narcotics : Ban.

 

Originally said by Mother in A raisin in the Sun: It's none of my business wheter people drink liquor or not. But it is my decision wheter I want to be part of making it haoppn.

 

To be harshly brutally honest, it's better that my girlfriend is abused then that my little 2-year old cousin is shot. Reaping is a bit worse than death. You say you know people who have been raped? Well, I know people who knew people who have been shot. Which one is worse?

 

What can be done? Well, if the most people possible can be convinced that guns are bad, it should eventually stop. You know, in order for a weak government to do something, the majority of the people must agree.

[idiot00001]

Many school shootings are carried out by elementary/middle school kid. Yes, a determined middle school kid can get his hands on drugs. But hey, a "determined" 5th grader who gets his hands on a firearm when almost no houses have them? Tell me how, please.

 

I was refering to High School age kids, but if a middle school kid wanted to I am sure they could buy one on the Black Market. If you have enough money you could buy almost anything illegally. An Elementary school kid probably couldn't get their hands on a gun, though.

 

How about their kids? Yeah, they can keep ammo away from gun, but hey, they supposedly have to have the gun ready, don't they? So if they keep the ammo away from the gun.. well, they keep it close to the gun to load it in a hurry, which means a "skilled" kid can arm the gun...

 

I never said that they kept them unlocked or unsafely stored. If you lock up your gun and your ammo kids could not get into them, yet as long as you have a key with you it should not take you very long to arm yourself. Another solution is to just get a gun safe with a combination lock that only you know.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Originally posted by idiot00001

 

I was refering to High School age kids, but if a middle school kid wanted to I am sure they could buy one on the Black Market. If you have enough money you could buy almost anything illegally. An Elementary school kid probably couldn't get their hands on a gun, though.

 

 

 

U can even buy nukes in some cases, or so US says.

[duder]

I'm gutted that Michael Moore isn't respected as a national hero!!!

 

Check out details of his film 'Bowling for Columbine'

 

He has a far better reputation in the UK then he does in the US, and is someone who I genuinely consider to have something worthwhile to say and listen to, rather than the idealistic mush you are likely to have fed to you on the 'West Wing' (TV at its most potent evil).

 

If I was an American I would consider this guy to be a true patriot, as opposed to men like Charlton Heston who plays on your fears to make money - all in the name of America and the constitution.