Political loyalties and the Prequels

[Breton]

You are brainwashed, Caged. I was just waiting for a communism-bull****-answer to come up, and *ping* there it was!

 

Now, you tell me what the hell is wrong with the ideals of communism! Of course, the system is impossible to work like it's supposed to, but the ideals are good. The thoughts are GOOD. Equality, everyone gets what they need and so on and so on. I'm not in the mood to make a long post again.

 

Only because Stalin abused their system and became a dictator, you believe that communism is the big Satan. "Those guys want to kill us, blahblah. Communists are bad people!" Only bias and prejudice. A socialistic system like we have here in Norway is way better than your American, corruption-ridden system, especially the way it is now. There is a reason you guys experience terrorist-attacks, because of your politics towards other people.

 

(Damn, I was going to say that.)

 

 

Anyways, about abortion. First thing first, abortion is not killing, because to be killed, you'll have to live first, and the babies are yet not living, only developing, they do not feel pain, they do not think and so on.

 

Secondly, would you really rather let the child live a crappy life with a single 17 year old mother who didn't even want to have children, than to "kill" it (wich you don't) ?

[Jedi_Monk]

I believe life begins are conception. Just because something is developing doesn't mean anything... we're always developing until our body runs down and we die. I think that democratic programs make it more phesable for women to keep unexpected babies... but if they still can't afford it/don't want it, they should put it up for adoption.

 

That said, I'm a democrat... statistics show that there are less abortions when democrats are president... maybe because the economy's better, maybe because the aforementioned programs aren't being raped and pillaged. I'm anti-criminalization, but I would never, ever, encourage a woman to get an abortion. If it were made illegal, more black and minority women would go to jail on abortion charges than rich white women.

 

Also, if it were illegal, women who would be talked out of an abortion, would not seek advice from their relatives for fear that they wouldn't be convinced and would still go through with it and would be turned in. Same goes for women who might go to their priests for advice in the matter. And programs that help women suffering from post-abortion stress would shrivel up and die because there's no statute of limitations on murder. I think that making it illegal would do more harm than good in today's social climate.

 

[C'jais]

Originally posted by Ratmjedi

 

They are more than two parties in the U.S. Political system. There are the two maor ones that are Democrat's , Republican's , then there are Libetarian's, Independent's, and Natural Law.

The Democrat's and the Republican's are just the biggest and that is why they are known more.

 

Communsism and Socialism is also a good idea in some aspect's but there are also something's that aren't as good. It looks good when it is on paper but when applied there is always going to be someone who is going to want more than what they have. Someone is also going to have more power than another so there can never really be a equal society.

 

Thanks for clearing that up about the political parties.

 

Now, the goal of socialism isn't to make it a completely equal society, but rather to take care of the weak, using the money of the rich.

 

I know it sounds a bit far fetched, but the lower class in Scandinavia is virtually non-existant - the middle class makes up nearly 95%. If everyone took care of themselves and didn't pay much in taxes, we'd end up with a society where the rich exploited the poor and the state couldn't help anyone.

 

I can't say anything about what each of this looks like on paper, I'm merely speaking from experience and comparing countries.

[Breton]

Lets imagine a young single girl who accidently get pregnant. She has no chance of affording a baby, neither does she have the time. The thing about being pregnant now is a complete nightmare, she has no chance of taking good care of her child. She could of course have adopted it away, but if abortion became illegal, the number of children being adopted away, would be much higher than the number of people who actually cannot get a child on their own, and still can take good care of this child. So what shall this mother do if there is no one who can take care of this child?

 

Also, a big difference between Democrats and Republicans is how they will (obviously) keep the population at a stabile level. The democrats will give people the choice of abortion if they are unable to take care of the child, while the Republicans will force these to get their life, horrible or not, and instead hold the population down by encouraging people to shoot eachother, by the legalization of guns.

[ShockV1.89]

Hmm, a lot of people take a high and mighty stance on abortion, but it's more difficult to take that stance when you're in the position of maybe having to get one...

 

I used to be a fairly hardline pro-lifer, but then me and my gf had a pregnancy scare. Strong though I thought my beliefs, the thought popped into my head and didnt leave. Same went for her. I felt bad, but hey, I was young, and that would mess up my life really bad. Fortunatley, she wasnt pregnant, but it changed my view...

 

It's really easy to stand there and talk about how abortion is wrong and NOBODY should do it... but try saying that when you're faced with the prospect of raising a kid at age 18...

 

In any case, as far as political parties go, I'm mostly independent. I generally lean towards the democratic side, as republicans tend to be a bit money grubbing, as well as more politics oriented and less people oriented (unless it involves money). Furthermore, their whole trick of covering the lousy economic state with a war on Iraq rather than fixing it is abhorrent. I agree that Iraq must be dealt with, but we have to look out for ourselves first. But Bush thinks it would be easier to simply pull the wool over our eyes...

 

And, as someone said, dont feed me the "Blame-Clinton" bull. Republicans love to use that, even though nobody I've spoken to thinks anything more of them for doing it. And even if it IS Clintons fault (which it isnt), that doesnt mean they dont have to fix it...

 

Neither party is perfect, have no doubt.

 

Finally, I would like to apologize to my foreign comrades for the words of some of the people in this thread. *cough* crado *cough*. It's quite obvious that they (he) are (is) too young and immature to have grasped the concept that people with computers and "teh interweb" exist outside of the USA. Dont take him seriously... we dont.

[C'jais]

Originally posted by ShockV1.89

Hmm, a lot of people take a high and mighty stance on abortion, but it's more difficult to take that stance when you're in the position of maybe having to get one...

 

I used to be a fairly hardline pro-lifer, but then me and my gf had a pregnancy scare. Strong though I thought my beliefs, the thought popped into my head and didnt leave. Same went for her. I felt bad, but hey, I was young, and that would mess up my life really bad. Fortunatley, she wasnt pregnant, but it changed my view...

 

It's really easy to stand there and talk about how abortion is wrong and NOBODY should do it... but try saying that when you're faced with the prospect of raising a kid at age 18...

 

Werd. Glad someone understood my point of view.

 

What's so funny is that those republicans are pro-execution when against abortion. It's the same deal, you murder someone to save the pains of others. You could argue that the person being executed has already proved his guilt, but that would go against their religion which states that killing is immoral. So both are bad.

 

I say we stop and accept forced morals from religion - while they're good in principle, the world is not black and white. And it will never be.

 

Laws should be made as a compromise between individual freedom and society's benefit. Abortion is an individual's choice and it will certainly help society.

[ET Warrior]

Where's the Independant option Jedi_Monk? HUH!?!?!? J/K

 

Wow, such hostilities that exist between the democrats and republicans eh? It kind of makes me laugh, because i'll bet some of you people arguing the sides aren't even 18...meaning you cannot vote and therefore don't really belong to a party.and probably don't really understand the parties. Just what you've been told by your parents......

[C'jais]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Where's the Independant option Jedi_Monk? HUH!?!?!? J/K

 

Wow, such hostilities that exist between the democrats and republicans eh? It kind of makes me laugh, because i'll bet some of you people arguing the sides aren't even 18...meaning you cannot vote and therefore don't really belong to a party.and probably don't really understand the parties. Just what you've been told by your parents......

 

Oh believe me, some teenagers have far more knowledge of politics than some adults...

 

But I agree, most people here sound like they're simply passing on what they've been told by their parents.

[thehomicidalegg]

Hehe so idealistic...

 

...anyways...

 

Originally posted by Tyrion

 

I heard it was 90 or so.

 

Besides, he cant even say Nuclear right...

 

 

 

here's an interesting note:

 

Bush has an IQ of 92

 

Clinton has an IQ of 187

 

When Clinton was in power, he took the american economy from recession from Bush Snr... and instigated a decade long boom. He was shown preferring Peace to war and maintained a healthy relationship with other nations, sometimes at the expense of americans themselves. Also he had to trudge through scandalous affairs but he manipulated the media and his image so that he maintained a healthy Public opinion and was never threatened off the polls. His charisma was something his successor, Al gore lacked, and never able to emulate his success.

 

Bush was elected through promises of tax cuts and other policies playing on the positivity of the general populous at the time. In Al Gore he also had a weak competitor. Bush is a good speech maker in that his attitude and tone brings the message closer to the 'commoners'. It was also helpful that he's father happened to be a past president. Despite copping loads of Jokes and satires on his knowledge of world affairs, Bush had increased his popularity to unprecedented levels, mainly through showing a sense of character, and controlled aggression. The economy levelled and then declined. His cavalier attitude to the rest of the world has brought him acclaim within USA, but isolated US from the rest of the world. But then again Who Cares?

[Breton]

Originally posted by thehomicidalegg

His cavalier attitude to the rest of the world has brought him acclaim within USA, but isolated US from the rest of the world. But then again Who Cares?

 

Oh, you will care, when Canada invades you, and your "allies" will rather support Canada than you. Have you any idea on how USA now is for the rest of the world?

 

Bush: "Ok, Saddam tried to kill my daddy, so lets bomb the crap out of his innocent people. Who's with me?

Tony Blair: "Me! Me! Me!"

Chirac: "Nah, I don't think so"

Gerhard Schröder: "You are stupid, George"

Putin: "Let's try to find a more peaceful solution here!"

Bush: "Peaceful solution HAHAHA as if! Hey, Tony, let's bomb them when we are done with Iraq, k?

Blair: "As you say, my master"

Bush: "And last time I was in Canada, some guy called me a warmonger, lets nuke them too!"

[wardz]

EDIT ^ he posted while i was writing this... how apt

 

 

From an English point of view. Well at least mine...

 

There used to be a time when the UK and US were quite close, but since Bush has been in power and Tony Blair has insisted to follow his every word, then quite a lot of anti American feeling has grown within the UK... While I agree Saddam needs to be sorted out, you get the impression that everywhere the US goes, they are after oil wells and power - NOT acting in the best interests of the troubled state. If you look when Britain colonised a large part of the world, by the time we left, they had a good infrastructure - rail links, system of government etc...what do the Americans do?

 

Due to American foreign policy and Blair's backing, the UK has now become a major terrorist target, and the worrying thing is that we are a lot closer than you are!

 

I am a conservative, which is loosely Republican, but our system is a little different. Unfortunately, the President is the most powerful position in the world and therefore having Bush in charge makes me feel a little uneasy. You need to stop the attitude that you are American so you can do what you want. This is why you are so unpopular in the world. Name one country where you can say your intervention has been a success?

 

And don't say afghanistan, because that is still a mess

 

Anyway, I have gone off the track quite a lot, but there are some important issues that need to be discussed..

 

I like debates

 

-W