Maverick Knight Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I, who fancy myself something of a storyteller and an aspiring writer of stories, would like to make a conjecture and a few suggestions about how the plotline of Episode III should pan out for maximum emotional effect. I like dramatic, involved plots with good plot twists, which was why I liked the Original Trilogy ("Luke, I am your father." etc.) However awesome the action is and however mind-blowing the special effects are, I think the Prequil Trilogy is somewhat lacking in plot depth and involvement. So, I would like to offer some ideas on how EP III should play out. George Lucas, you listening? ----- Okay, here are the events which should happen in EP III: 1. Anakin becomes Darth Vader. I mean in name, not in black-armor-scary-breathing. That comes later. This name change and, presumably, force-alignment change will most likely come during the middle of the movie. 2. The Anakin/Obi-wan lightsaber duel. This is arguably the penultimate plot event of the Prequil Trilogy. I suspect that most fans are eagerly awaiting a great duel here, so Lucas ought to be able to deliver. Now, what do I mean when I say 'great duel?' Is it the speed of the action? No: it should be slow enough to see their faces and read their expressions. What I mean is a thing called 'emotional involvement.' Here's two examples: The saber fight against Dooku in Episode II wasn't just a saber fight. We know that Anakin was already angry about leaving Padme behind, which set up his irrational rush at Dooku. Anakin had a motivation for his actions, and we knew that it was that anger which was partly what caused him to fight as hard as he did (and lose like he did, too.) Hence, there was some emotion behind that fight. And another example: At the end of Return of the Jedi, Luke fights Vader. But Vader is Luke's father as well as his opponent. That audience is asking themselves, "will he kill his father?" Hence, there is some plot uncertainty about that fight. Whatever the outcome, we know that it will be a defining event. This sort of dramatic thing is what must happen in the Anakin/Obi-wan fight. It shouldn't be too hard to set up. I said SHOULDN'T... This duel should go at the end of the movie. It wouldn't do to have Vader walking around, full armor, for even a few minutes of the movie. It would be, in my mind, much more dramatic if the final, end-cap scene for the Prequil Trilogy went something like this: Anakin, burned and broken, supported by robotic prostetics on his body, is led to Palpatine. Palpatine asks him what he wants now that all is said and done. Anakin says something along the lines of, "Revenge." Palpatine says, "Good." He hands Anakin a black object, telling him that now he will be able to carry out vengance on the Jedi and bring order to the galaxy (yada, yada, yada...) Anakin looks down at the object and puts it on his face. The Imperial March plays as he slowly looks up into the camera and we see that it is Darth Vader's mask. Fade to credits. ----- And now for my own idea. I think that a fitting climax to the Prequil Trilogy would be an assault on Coruscant. Think about urban warfare through and above the skyscrapers of Coruscant, and tell me a better idea if you have one. This would also be a convenient setup for the Anakin/Obi-wan fight, since Anakin supposedly falls into a vat of molten metal or a lava pool or something like that. As to why someone would be attacking Coruscant, I do not know. That's up to Lucas. So what do you think? Did I overlook anything? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 However awesome the action is and however mind-blowing the special effects are, I think the Prequil Trilogy is somewhat lacking in plot depth and involvement. I think the exact opposite. The plot of the OT is very straight forward, whereas the plot of the Prequels is meandering, full of political intrigue. Watch the Prequels, and then watch RotJ. Palpatine scoffs at Luke calling his overconfidence his weakness--and he's so right to do that. After watching the Prequels, we see that Palpatine is a manipulative genius, playing both sides of the fense on a razor edge. He's played every character like a fiddle. If you watch the political powermoves in the Prequels, you'll see how incredibly intricate it is, and how it holds together the events of the OT like nothing we've ever imagined. I enjoy watching the birth of the dystopian Empire more than watching the Rebellion fight it. George Lucas, you listening? George Lucas will do what George Lucas wants to do. ...hands Anakin a black object... Anakin looks down at the object and puts it on his face...The Imperial March plays as he slowly looks up into the camera and we see that it is Darth Vader's mask. Fade to credits. Uh... how could this happen? Anakin needs that mask to survive outside of his meditation chamber. Secondly, James Earl Jones is signed up for Episode III... something about 10 minutes, nobody knows if that means Vader will be in the movie for 10 minutes, or if it's 10 minutes of audio track (which, if he doesn't talk much, would mean that Vader could be on screen much longer). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Knight Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 Really? James Earl Jones is in on the next one? Oooh...interesting... All that stuff about politics is necessarry to the story, because so much of it is about political maneuvering. What I meant by plot depth is more concerning characters' backstories and motivations than the external politics. Too much politics gets dry and uninteresting, despite the fact that I have a very long attention span for such things. A story needs strong characters as well. And a few plot shockers would help here and there. I like to go "What?! No way!!!" when watching a movie. A variety of characters helps. In the OT (ANH in particular) we had the noble Jedi (Obi-wan), the farm-boy (Luke), the scruffy-looking bounty hunter (Han, insert 'nerf-herder' in there somewhere), and all those other characters. Their personalities were different enough to bounce off of each other and create interesting dialogue between them. It was fun to see their different reactions to situations. In Ep I, the Jedis needed a counterbalancing character who would bounce off of them. They were too stodgy most of the time and didn't show much emotion, except at the end when Qui-Gonn was killed. Ep II had more in the way of differing, and sometimes conflicting character personalities, which is a good sign for the future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ez- Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Yeh I agree with what you say (and not for the first time) Monk. Regarding the James Earl Jones bit you mention... October 11, 1998; TFN Spy Report: "Just got back from a lecture given by James Earl Jones at Penn State. He spoke about the arts and gave a throughly enjoyable speech. During the q & a session, he did happen to mention that his voice will only be heard during the last 5 minutes of episode #3. I guess we can all look forward to that." Mar 19, 2001; James Earl Jones spoke at a lecture: When asked whether he would do Darth Vader for Episode III "Are you kidding?" he says, which is a good point: Who else are they going to get? I saw George Lucas in Idaho and asked, ‘Do I work again?’ and he said, ‘Well, at some point in the third episode [of the new trilogy, which is about the transformation of young Anakin Skywalker into the evil Darth Vader], Darth will become bionic and he should sound like you then.’ He said there might be no more than five minutes at the end. "And I said, ‘Fine, I’ll take whatever you can give me.’" Just to give your argument more authority Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by Maverick Knight ----- And now for my own idea. I think that a fitting climax to the Prequil Trilogy would be an assault on Coruscant. Think about urban warfare through and above the skyscrapers of Coruscant, and tell me a better idea if you have one. This would also be a convenient setup for the Anakin/Obi-wan fight, since Anakin supposedly falls into a vat of molten metal or a lava pool or something like that. As to why someone would be attacking Coruscant, I do not know. That's up to Lucas. An attack on coruscant you say? Seems silly to me, because palpatine is taking over the republic from the inside, he'll have no need for an assault on the capital world, and there isn't another force with enough fire power to even contemplate attacking what is quite likely the most heavily defended planet in the galaxy. And the molten metal idea has been rebuked by most everyone, because a human falling into any molten anything would vaporize said person. No body atall to be sustained by a life support suit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple_Tentacle Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 well anakin has to loose his other arm, because when luke chops his hand off in ROTJ its robotic. and his breathing has to messed up (obviously) so a saber thru the chest would do nicely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Actually in RotJ it was the right hand that luke chopped off, so he doesn't need to lose the other one. A saber through the chest is plausible, however.....hmmmm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kryllith Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 Originally posted by Maverick Knight The Anakin/Obi-wan lightsaber duel. This is arguably the penultimate plot event of the Prequil Trilogy. I suspect that most fans are eagerly awaiting a great duel here, so Lucas ought to be able to deliver. If this is the penultimate plot event, then what to you consider the ultimate plot event? Anakin's actual transition into vader? As for the whole Vader costume... I'd prefer that there is no reference to it in the third episode. Quite frankly, I'd like to see Lucas set it up so that at the end of the third episode it isn't revealed that Anakin becomes Vader. If we must see "Vader" then don't have it be revealed as Anakin. Why? Because, quite frankly I'd like future generations to be able to watch the episodes I-VI and NOT know until episode V that Anakin and Vader are one and the same... Kryllith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Knight Posted November 20, 2002 Author Share Posted November 20, 2002 I never said I was an authority on this stuff. It's all rumors and idle speculation. There are a few ways Anakin could get past the molten whatever-it-is. The Force, for one. But since it was up on the Star Wars web site, I figured Lucas is going to follow through with it. I never said an attack on Coruscant was possible, I just think it would look really, really nifty. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted November 20, 2002 Share Posted November 20, 2002 I'd like to see some urban warfare on Coruscant. I think it's fairly likely... I mean, there will probably be more than a few pockets of people rebelling against Palpatine declaring himself Emperor, and they'll have to be taken care of. I have this picture of tens of thousands of people protesting against Palpatine in front of the Senate Building, being surrounded by Clonetroopers. One of the Clonetroopers reports to Palpatine, says something like, "We have problems out here", and Palpatine just says "Take care of it." And the Clonetroopers mow down the protesters with a relentless volly of laserfire. And since the Clone Wars will be over by this time, the majority of Jedi will probably be on Coruscant again. Jedi vs. Clonetroopers on the grounds of the Jedi Temple is one of the things that I really want to see. I also bet the Jedi Temple gets razed by some newly minted TIE Bombers. Urban warfare is a distinct possibility, Palpatine's Clones pacifying insurrectionists. But I don't think it will be an all-out orbital/ground battle... it'll be the first Imperial Massacre. I think we need to see the Empire do some very evil things in this episode. As incredible as it seems, there are some people out there who think the Empire isn't all that much of an evil, and that it's the Rebellion that's causing all the problems: Sure, they killed the Larses, but they were harboring the droids of known traitors; sure they destroyed Alderaan, but the Alderaanians were all Rebels (this is their rationale, not mine), and apart from that, we just saw the Empire doing bad things to more traitors and rebels. We need to see the Empire do some very unprovoked violence against normal citizens of the Republic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I read somewhere that rick mccallum (sp?) said that vader accumulates his costume bit by bit throughout the film, so to me this says that the obi vs anakin fight must be quite early on in the film. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Knight Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 Hmm... Come to think of it, having Anakin get the armor piece-by-piece isn't such a bad idea. It would be classic GL: wanting to symbolically show Anakin's slow transformation or something like that. And the armor without the helmet wouldn't look all that bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loki GM Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 he should get the suit first then fight get stabbed then get the artafitial lungs then fight again get het on the head a couple of times then gets the helmet (who was it that sait that the helmet helped the breathing) then jones will come in and do the voice acting. just my thoughts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Knight Posted November 21, 2002 Author Share Posted November 21, 2002 Force Lightning would do enough damage to get him into the suit, wouldn't you think...? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I have a much different standpoint. How about Anakin turns dark at the start of the movie, with many saber fights and him defeating many jedi using little, often cheap tricks. Clonetroopers attack the jedi temple, get new armor, become stormtroopers. At the end, obiwan schools anakin in a fight, and Vader is then recued by new imperial troopers, gets his armor, and goes to palpatine, gets armor, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sivy Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Originally posted by Maverick Knight Force Lightning would do enough damage to get him into the suit, wouldn't you think...? yeah but i don't think obi-wan would do that even if he could, no i think a big duel is planned and i think it will end with anakin falling into something, maybe not lava but something to mess him up Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple_Tentacle Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Originally posted by Maverick Knight Force Lightning would do enough damage to get him into the suit, wouldn't you think...? luke skywalker takes the biggest dose of force lightning to date in ROTJ and after thats over he seems quite chipper. so i dont think you are left with any long term side-effects from force lightning. Originally posted by ET Warrior Actually in RotJ it was the right hand that luke chopped off, so he doesn't need to lose the other one. A saber through the chest is plausible, however.....hmmmm My Bad, you're right. i fully remembered it as the left arm. my eyes can decieve me, i shouldn't trust them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Knight Posted November 22, 2002 Author Share Posted November 22, 2002 Yes, but you don't think that it would be possible to really fry someone with it? I think that the Emperor wasn't really trying to kill Luke quickly, he was just savoring his pain while he killed him slowly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Yes, but you don't think that it would be possible to really fry someone with it? I think that the Emperor wasn't really trying to kill Luke quickly, he was just savoring his pain while he killed him slowly. Yeah, maybe for the first five minutes... but I bet he turned up the juice after he said, "Now young Skywalker... you will die!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maverick Knight Posted November 23, 2002 Author Share Posted November 23, 2002 Yeah, I bet he did. How long would Luke have lasted if Vader hadn't decided to chuck Palpatine over the side? And remember, we have two force-lightning-capable Sith at once now: Dooku and Palpatine. If they both laid into Anakin, I think he'd go under pretty quick. Of course, that wouldn't exactly make him friendly to them, either. And I don't think Lucas would want to show that... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purple_Tentacle Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 thats a wicked idea, although i would like to keep sidious's lightning abilities hidden untill ep.6 it would be cool to see dooku AND sidious lay into some poor soul at the same time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dorain8 Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 1. Boba i dont think will be in it at all this would make his appearance in ANH SE better. 2. No Vader Armor, it would probably end with obiwan and anakin fight (but thats just speculation) i would think you dont see if anakin survives or not, making his reappearance as vader in ANH that much cooler 3. another ending could be the visit to the Lars farm with luke and the visit to the Bail Organa with leia and Padme (yes padme does chill with the daughter for a while it says it in ROTJ) 4. i doubt all the jedi will die by the end, most will but i doubt all a few key players will like Mace, this makes it cooler when you learn what ahppened to them in ANH and ESB. 5. possible construction of a new RED lightsaber on Anakins behalf 6. in AOTC yoda mace and obi, talk about how more and more jedi are begging to have the same arogant tone anakin does this could be a hint that more than just anakin will become dark jedi 7. something i ahve noticed is palpatine is getting pailer through the movies. so exspect to see him in casper mode 8. I am reading in that character manual that vader is vader cuz he was tossed in a molten pit. if you read these manuals they stick close to the movies. <<<<<<<<<<<<<not saying your wrong>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> I read somewhere that rick mccallum (sp?) said that vader accumulates his costume bit by bit throughout the film, so to me this says that the obi vs anakin fight must be quite early on in the film sivy b no jedi/sith (in movies) ever wore armor, why would anakin <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted November 24, 2002 Share Posted November 24, 2002 2. No Vader Armor, it would probably end with obiwan and anakin fight (but thats just speculation) i would think you dont see if anakin survives or not, making his reappearance as vader in ANH that much cooler James Earl Jones is going to be working on SW3. James Earl Jones is the voice of Anakin as filtered through his breathmask. Therefore, Anakin will be in the mask, at least. 4. i doubt all the jedi will die by the end, most will but i doubt all a few key players will like Mace, this makes it cooler when you learn what ahppened to them in ANH and ESB. Sam Jackson has said that Mace dies in SW2. Sam's not the kind who would want his character to go out on screen. Sam wanted a purple lightsaber, Lucas gave him a purple lightsaber. Mace is gonna die spectacularly in SW3. 6. in AOTC yoda mace and obi, talk about how more and more jedi are begging to have the same arogant tone anakin does this could be a hint that more than just anakin will become dark jedi There are no more Dark Jedi in ANH; why would Lucas allude this this if there's nothing about it in the OT? SW3 is about tying up plot threads. 8. I am reading in that character manual that vader is vader cuz he was tossed in a molten pit. if you read these manuals they stick close to the movies. The Essential Guide to Characters is mostly EU. The molten pit thing comes from the Return of the Jedi novelization by James Kahn, and, I believe, from the original RotJ script. But in the very same conversation (this is Ben talking to Luke on Dagobah) Ben says that Owen Lars is his brother, which has obviously been changed. I don't trust the molten pit theory anymore. The EGTC is outdated. no jedi/sith (in movies) ever wore armor, why would anakin Anakin wore armor... Anyway, I agree with the rest of it... Palpatine gets more and more decrepit... I want to see Obi-Wan deliver Luke to Tatooine and Padme/Leia to Alderaan... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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