Speciality Units Needed

[Dark Merkaba]

ok guys, the only porblem i think SWBG has is the lack of diversity. every civ is pretty much the same other than the hit points. each civ has a bomber, adv bomber, torrper, adv trooper, etc. what it needs to have if a sequel is made is speciality units.

 

-like the Trade Federation should have a unit that self destructs causing a lot of damage, gungans should have a ship or something that goes underwater cloacked until it fires, and on land.

-Wookies should have a warrior that can pass through dense forests and/or place mines.

-The Rebels should have spys that either run into buildings and cause it to loose around half the points or something, or looks like the enemies worker and helps them work so you can see their base.

-the Naboo should have a speciality unit that does no lethal damage since they are a peaceful planet. the unit should carry a personal Ion cannon that shuts down anything mechanis for a time and needs to recharge after so many shots.

-and the Empire, o god the possibilities. one, the star destroyer should be the top air unit. using strong air and ground attacks. maybe a Word Devistator that sucks up carbon and spits out Droid Ties. And must definatly have a Death Star. this would be a lot like the Ion Cannon in command and Conquer but instead of hitting one item, does a large scale attack like the nuke in StarCraft.

 

I think that the game is a very good one, but fell short on the diversity of the civilizations. certain ones should have different units that only they have, or some made faster or slower than others. the next one should have some civilizations from the comics, or ones that the movies just touched one, like the TechnoUnion army of Episode II, or the Ssi-Ruuvi. stuff like that. I almost forgot, you should be able to change the terrain. like shoot a cliff and make it passable, blow up a bridge, or make one. be able to shoot the ground and make holes that land units cant pass.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by Dark Merkaba

(1)ok guys, the only porblem i think SWBG has is the lack of diversity. every civ is pretty much the same other than the hit points. each civ has a bomber, adv bomber, torrper, adv trooper, etc. what it needs to have if a sequel is made is speciality units.

 

(2)-like the Trade Federation should have a unit that self destructs causing a lot of damage, (3)gungans should have a ship or something that goes underwater cloacked until it fires, and on land.

(4)-Wookies should have a warrior that can pass through dense forests.

(5)-The Rebels should have spys that either run into buildings and cause it to loose around half the points or something, or looks like the enemies worker and helps them work so you can see their base.

(6) -the Naboo should have a speciality unit that does no lethal damage since they are a peaceful planet. the unit should carry a personal Ion cannon that shuts down anything mechanis for a time and needs to recharge after so many shots.

(7)-and the Empire, o god the possibilities. one, the star destroyer should be the top air unit. using strong air and ground attacks. (8)maybe a Word Devistator that sucks up carbon and spits out Droid Ties. (9)And must definatly have a Death Star. this would be a lot like the Ion Cannon in command and Conquer but instead of hitting one item, does a large scale attack like the nuke in StarCraft.

 

I think that the game is a very good one, but fell short on the diversity of the civilizations. certain ones should have different units that only they have, or some made faster or slower than others. the next one should have some civilizations from the comics, or ones that the movies just touched one, (10)like the TechnoUnion army of Episode II, or the Ssi-Ruuvi. stuff like that.

 

1- They used the AoK game engine which is why they all have the same units.

 

2-Might work in a sequel.

 

3-Gungan frigates already do that.

 

4-For what? Not all maps are made with forests. Unlike ships, those thing won't be any good. And it will be vastly overpowered.

 

5-Overpowered and way to complicated.

 

6-Can be good only if they shoot like one or two times. Or else it will also be overpowered.

 

7-Cannot fit into SW Galactic BattleGROUNDS. And way too overpowered.

 

8-Same thing as in 7.

 

9-Same thing as in 7 and 8.

 

10-Some of their units already are with the confederacy.

 

So as a conclusion, I think you like the Empire a little too much. you have to think about gameplay features. If the Empire becomes strong in both ground and air, it will totally be overpowered. Also, these ''speciality units'' are no different frm the UUs so calling them ''speciality'' dont make them less UUs.

 

Oh by the way, chances are that the possible sequel will be with UU sets.

 

Anyway, Welcome to the forum. i guess I didin't give you such a warm welcome but I am usually a nice guy.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Yeah welcome.

 

 

 

 

1) I think it should be based on RoN, with 4-6 unique units per side and the rest are generic (only graphical changes)

2) Might work, but not too powerful. Maybe like the demolition droids in the Rebel campaign

3) Already in the game.

4) I think all infantry should be able to pass through forests.

5) RoN has that, but not as UU

6) Too complicated

7) SD aren't built for air combat. That's space combat u'll be thinking of. It could work if GB2 has a space battle mode, but even then not as UU; Empire is meant to be weak in air.

8) WTF? Too complicated!

9) Overpowered. However, it could fit in in a space battle mode, and to balance it out it is slow, slow reload time and maybe fighters have lite a +500 bonus against it.

10) That'll be the Confederacy.

 

Also comic civs are unfimiliar to the casual gamer. They would think: "WTF?! This is meant to be a game about Star Wars!"

[pbguy1211]

Originally posted by Dark Merkaba

-The Rebels should have spys that either run into buildings and cause it to loose around half the points or something, or looks like the enemies worker and helps them work so you can see their base.

 

THAT could be cool. You could have some dude, or worker, in a disguise so they look like an enemy worker. They'd carry nothing, but would mimic like they're working. And when you have so many running around I'd never notice one in my base. Unless he was acting funny... even then no one would notice.

[Sithmaster_821]

1. RoN has only 2 unique units per civ. The rest are just upgrades of the two units.

2. In the scen box under explosive droid. Looks like TF medic.

3. Already in game

4. Forests are meant to be obstacles. Units should be able to pass through them.

5. Too complicated and overpowered.

6. Maybe, though i think RC's handle mechs fairly wel

7. Capital Ships rarely figured into ground and air battles

8. Way too powerful

9. A Death Star? Just type "that's no moon". Other than that, DS's are just too strong.

10. TechnoUnion was part of the ConFeds. The others are too obscure.

 

Anywho, welcome to the forums. You'll have fun (i'd avoid the alien jedi poll though, wouldnt want to scare you away too early:)) Some of us (ok ALL of us) are a bit strange, and we never get along. Sorta like a dysfunctional family, but different...

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

Anywho, welcome to the forums. You'll have fun (i'd avoid the alien jedi poll though, wouldnt want to scare you away too early:)) Some of us (ok ALL of us) are a bit strange, and we never get along. Sorta like a dysfunctional family, but different...

 

hahaha! you can't get more dysfunctional then us! I think we are more of a huge family that has relatives all over the globe and who don't know what they look like!!!

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

1. RoN has only 2 unique units per civ. The rest are just upgrades of the two units.

 

All of the civs have 5+ UU's, and many have 3 or more UU LINES. But saying RoN has only 3 UU's per civ is like saying AoM has 3 civs.

 

-Aztecs: 6 UU's, 3 UU Lines: Light Infantry, Archer, Modern Infantry

 

-Egypt: 7 UU's 2 Lines: Light Cavalry and Ranged Cavalry (there is much diversity within the ranged cav line)

 

-Russia: 8 (yes, 8!) UU's and 4 lines

 

And there will doubtless be many more civs with higher #'s of UU's and/or lines as more civs' UU's are made public.

 

Also you must remember that in RoN you have units progressing over time, and there are not massive numbers of unit types per age. This isn't like AoM where you will have Chariots, camels, spearmen, slingers, axemen, anubites, scarabs, priests, pharoahs, mummies, and a Son of Osiris all fighting alongside each other. RoN is the progression of nations throughout history, whereas games with more units and UU's per age are more focused on skirmishes and throwing up forward bases.

 

If you expect 5-6 UU's per age then forget it. And if you expect a sprinking of different UU's in different lines to each civ then that is just stupid. You cannot give a UU to almost every civ and call it a UU, which is what would happen if that many UU's were given per age. Likewise, you cannot give each civ a differant light infantry UU and hope to keep diverisity. Since, unlike in AoM where you can make up whatever MU's they want and no one will care, units must progress in a logical, historical order, upgrades are the obvious choice. The units in a given line, however, are different nonetheless. Simply because the lines of AoM consist of regular, medium, heavy, and champion does not mean the lines of RoN are so simple.

 

Btw, your AoM has NO UU's per civ, 1 GP per civ, and 1 UT per civ.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Uh oh! Sith and simwiz are gonna start their little war all over again! Run for cover!

[Dark Merkaba]

these are mearly suggestions that i made, something on the lines of that. take em and smash them if they suck, i dont care.

but with the gungans, i havent really played them too much so i dont know if this already exists. an actual boat that goes underwater and cloaked, comes up to shoot at both air and land units, and can go all the way on land like any regular land unit.

 

i think the rebel spy should look and act like a worker of the other civ. but when you look at it, it just walks around not really carrying anything (so if you look you will notice it) and the only way to kill it is to actually tell a unit to kill it. they wont do it automatically.

 

i do love the empire, i just had more ideas for them than i did for other civilizations.

 

i think that the Death Star would be a great weapon that can only be used like once or twice in the game, or needs a special building to make special units to guide the beam or something. kinda make it hard to be able to use. also you dont ever see it. its like in space and just uses its cannon to shoot down onto the map.

 

over all i think it is a great game, just needs something different in each civilizationl

 

i can see why the comic civs wouldnt be to good for the newer player. but the game also has the option to look up other civs background and see what they are about.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Your Gungan unit will be way to overpowered. A boat going on land is an amphibious unit which has little chance to work.

 

Your rebel spy is to complicate. And a unit that can take out half a buildings hp is to powerful.

 

About the Death Star. I dunno man, but that thing can destroy a planet.

 

They already have different stuff like UUs and civ's bonuses.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Yeah the Gangun unit is overpowered, but why is the spy overpowered?

[Kryllith]

I wouldn't say that an amphibious unit is overpowered, but if you make it amphibious with diving capabilities and the ability to shoot both ground and air units, then it's getting overpowered. At least in the current game...

 

Kryllith

[AlliedCommander]

How about a ship that is good vs. mechs? Mech destroyers and assualts can only be killed effectively by cruisers, if it is lucky.

 

A sub that fires a blue bolt when it surfaces. It will kill frigates and destroyers too, but it will be expensive.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Well you would need to monitor all of your workers all the time to avoid those things.Too much Micro.

[Sithmaster_821]

Crazy dog, spy is overpowered because its like a earlier and cheaper and more effective version of spynet. Not only can you find out where his military and economy is, you can find out what he's researching and what he's building as well as do actual damage to his infrstructure.

 

A mech killer boat is a good idea, although i think it should be vernable to frigates (but still kills destroyers).

 

All of the civs have 5+ UU's, and many have 3 or more UU LINES. But saying RoN has only 3 UU's per civ is like saying AoM has 3 civs.

 

-Aztecs: 6 UU's, 3 UU Lines: Light Infantry, Archer, Modern Infantry

 

-Egypt: 7 UU's 2 Lines: Light Cavalry and Ranged Cavalry (there is much diversity within the ranged cav line)

 

-Russia: 8 (yes, 8!) UU's and 4 lines

 

And there will doubtless be many more civs with higher #'s of UU's and/or lines as more civs' UU's are made public.

 

Also you must remember that in RoN you have units progressing over time, and there are not massive numbers of unit types per age. This isn't like AoM where you will have Chariots, camels, spearmen, slingers, axemen, anubites, scarabs, priests, pharoahs, mummies, and a Son of Osiris all fighting alongside each other. RoN is the progression of nations throughout history, whereas games with more units and UU's per age are more focused on skirmishes and throwing up forward bases.

 

If you expect 5-6 UU's per age then forget it. And if you expect a sprinking of different UU's in different lines to each civ then that is just stupid. You cannot give a UU to almost every civ and call it a UU, which is what would happen if that many UU's were given per age. Likewise, you cannot give each civ a differant light infantry UU and hope to keep diverisity. Since, unlike in AoM where you can make up whatever MU's they want and no one will care, units must progress in a logical, historical order, upgrades are the obvious choice. The units in a given line, however, are different nonetheless. Simply because the lines of AoM consist of regular, medium, heavy, and champion does not mean the lines of RoN are so simple.

 

Btw, your AoM has NO UU's per civ, 1 GP per civ, and 1 UT per civ.

:lol::lol:

 

What do you think we are very stupid or very gullible (or both;))?

 

Aztecs: 2 UUs

Alt-Alt: upgrades to royal and xopili alt-alt

Jaquar infantry: upgrades to jaquar assault infantry

(their archer is the same as a crossbowman in stats and cost, ect. just that they didnt want to give the aztecs crossbows. Sorta like the gungans having "farseein binoculars" instead of integrated rangefinder)

I don't count six unless you think that SWGB has 10 troopers to choose from:lol:

 

Its the same for the rest. And they arent truly UU's because they replace a generic unit.

 

Oh and id also like to point out that MUs are not randomly distributed, but given to a god that is commonly associated with them. And ES favors gameplay>realism, so the progression isnt based on history but on unit strength.

[Darth Windu]

Luke - i believe the 'spy' unit that merkaba is talking about is similar to the one found in 'C&C: Red Alert'. In this game, the spy appeared as one of your enemies troops, and could only be discovered by dog's. The spy was unarmed and did not require much micro at all, and was a very good unit to have.

[Dark Merkaba]

for the spy idea, it doesnt take 2 spies to kill, it will just take half of what it has. 100-50-25 something like that. also, very weak, slow, and no weapons

 

the mech idea is great for the amphibus gungan thing. have it like kinda fast in the water, and slow on the ground or the other way around

 

the way i think about new units is that the second star wars should be tougher and more complex that the first. if something sounds too overpowered, then make it have some kind of weakness, like weak against bombers or something. i just think that there arent enough "complecated" or "HOLY ****!" units in the game. things like that i believe make or break a game. you can have a great looking game, deep story lines. but if ever civ has pretty much the same stuff except for a little more or less health, or sheilds, then it gets kinda borring. things like the Nuke in Starcraft made you sit back in your chair after seeing half your army go up in dust and rethink your plan. made you start to develop detector units and keep those suckers around more often. or seeing a single guy run up to a building and blow it up from the inside made you hurry and scramble everything you have to kill that one man.

stuff like that i believe are missing from this otherwise great game.

 

[Admiral Vostok]

I'd definitely like to see some of those units similar to in StarCraft and Red Alert 2, but other people on this board compare units with special abilities to WarCraft III, which isn't all that popular on this board...

 

Anyway, I think the SEAL guy (runs into a building and plants a bomb there) is a great idea for Star Wars, just like Han did in Return of the Jedi. I also think a unit that can move through trees would be a good idea, like the sniper in Empire Earth. Wookiee troopers could move through trees (perhaps only slowly, and unable to shoot out to balance), and maybe Gungan troopers could swim, with the same limitations. This forces you to plan your defence depending on what army you're facing, which I think is more realisitic.

 

But the Star Destroyer and Death Star do not belong. You could maybe have a thing similar to the weapons of mass destruction in Red Alert 2, where you can call in an orbital bombardment after a long wait time. However, to make it like the movies the bombardments would be bad against shields, as that's why they performed a ground assault at Hoth. But the Death Star is all wrong... "I've researched my Death Star! Die! Oh darn I blew up the planet, taking my base and any reason I had to land on the planet in the first place with it."

[Sithmaster_821]

Maybe a SEAL guy would work, but the terrian oriented units dont belong. Civs and units should be equally viable on all maps.

 

Weapons of mass destruction are bad. They become a crutch for weaker players and late games become who can lob more nukes at the enemy.

[simwiz2]

Originally posted by Sithmaster_821

Crazy dog, spy is overpowered because its like a earlier and cheaper and more effective version of spynet. Not only can you find out where his military and economy is, you can find out what he's researching and what he's building as well as do actual damage to his infrstructure.

 

A mech killer boat is a good idea, although i think it should be vernable to frigates (but still kills destroyers).

 

 

:lol::lol:

 

(1) What do you think we are very stupid or very gullible (or both;))?

 

(2) Aztecs: 2 UUs

Alt-Alt: upgrades to royal and xopili alt-alt

Jaquar infantry: upgrades to jaquar assault infantry

(3) (their archer is the same as a crossbowman in stats and cost, ect. just that they didnt want to give the aztecs crossbows. Sorta like the gungans having "farseein binoculars" instead of integrated rangefinder)

(4) I don't count six unless you think that SWGB has 10 troopers to choose from:lol:

 

(5) Its the same for the rest. (6) And they arent truly UU's because they replace a generic unit.

 

(7) Oh and id also like to point out that MUs are not randomly distributed, but (8) given to a god that is commonly associated with them. And ES (9) favors gameplay>realism, so the progression isnt based on history but on unit strength.

 

1 - No, I was hoping that the members would be mature enough to debate facts that are verified by RoNH without all the asinine comments. I guess that was expecting too much of you.

 

2 - English:Windu::Mathematics:Sith

Seriously though, learn to count! I don't know where you got the number 2 from, unless you don't know English either and are confusing UNIT LINES with UU's. And as I know what you are going to say in response to the math comment, you were WRONG about the factoring. Twice. 2 Cubes added together are factorable. And the fractions were meant to be solved, not reduced.

 

3 - Since you have a history of making up moronic facts, please post the link where you found this so that I can verify/discredit this claim without having to search through a bunch of fansites.

 

4 - Are you aware that GB and AoK have both advertised "battles with hundreds of different units" so yes, LA considers GB to have 10 troopers to choose from. Unless a repeater and recruit are the same thing, which they are clearly not: different stats, different range, better ROF, the list goes on and on.

 

5 - LOL, such as Russia? Are you going to try rewording a statement repeatedly until you have something that can seem to claim that Russia's 8 UU's and 4 lines have shrunk to 2?

 

6 - This ranks second as the most idiotic thing I have heard, closely following your miscounting in the beginning of your post. If Germany is the only civ that has Panzers and they are different from the normal tank then they are UU's.

Main Entry: unique

Pronunciation: yu-'nEk

Function: adjective

Etymology: French, from Latin unicus, from unus one -- more at ONE

Date: 1602

1 : being the only one

2 a : being without a like or equal

2 b : distinctively characteristic

I don't see anything specifying that it is or isn't a replacement of something else.

 

7 - Using fictional units gives much more flexibility, as there are no general stats that one must conform the units to. Considering Wadjets never existed, I don't think people will whine too much if they aren't "realistic".

 

8 - See #7. It is a lot easier to have diverse UU's that don't upgrade if you can make up stats out of thin air. Sure, they knew that the Greeks would get a collossus, but whether the collossus throws a giant axe 30 tiles or is melee, is good against buildings or units, no one cares because THE GREEK ARMY NEVER INCLUDED MOBILE BRONZE GIANTS! OTOH, if RoN went with a melee tank that was good against bazookas to prevent a slight overlap, many people would be rather upset.

 

9 - Actually I think it has to do with many of the units not having any history to begin with. THEY can have Wadjets and Avengers fighting alongside and no one cares, while if RoN were to have Abrams tanks fighting alongside Knights it would be rediculous. That is why units MUST upgrade; some sacrifices must be made in a HISTORICAL RTS, but BHG has done a good job keeping those sacrifices to a minimum. As a historical game, RoN must have some resemblance of realism, despite gameplay being more important.

 

And before you even start the graphics argument, RoN's graphics make AoM's look like they were done in MSPaint.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Sith, Simwiz- You guys just shut the hell up about your personnal little war.

 

Back on topic-

 

A seal unit would work perfectly except that it must be weak against everything else (wouldn't be able to kill anything or has a very weak self-defense attack)

 

I think they should simply make a UU with a swimming trooper and a wookiee ''going thru the forest'' trooper.

They should also be as strong as Hvy troopers(no more, no less) in order for them to not be overpowered.

 

Mass destruction- Sith is right. Turtles will simply turtle bck in their bases and bomb everything from far away.

[Dark Merkaba]

i think you guys are thinking the death star as being the ultimate weapon, and that the entire game has to be exactly to scale as the movies. the empire has a weapon in space that takes a while to reload, and needs sepciality units, and buildings to use. like the ghost. you would need a unit that can be killed easily, but needs to stay still to lock the laser to the target. not make it so each and every time you have it you can use it. maybe you need to spend so many nova crystals to use it. then it would only take so much away. like killing weak units and buildings, and hurting the stronger ones. but if the base had shields, then the death sar would not take away that much at all. you all are thinking that it has to be like the movie.

 

since the empire has a death star, the rebels should have the spy, like the SEAL runs in and either blows it up, or takes away a lot of health.

 

trade federation-a unit that self destructs with a wide attack range.

 

if there is a really stong unit for one civilization, maybe then lucus arts will start to add a little more variaty in their speciality units, or UU's as you all call them to other civs to make the game a little more stratigic.

 

whats this with aztecs and greek bronze cannon stuff? i thought this was about speciality units or UUs not RoN or what ever that is.

[Admiral Vostok]

Sithmaster, I disagree that civs need to be equally viable on all maps. I know you always say Gameplay>Realism, but in this case I think the realism aspect would create more fun. "Realistically", a Gungan civ would die on a desert map:

 

"This sun doing murder to mesa skin."

"Mesa too."

"Deysa got two bombad suns here."

"Two? Oi!"

"Hey yousa! Wesa under attack!"

"Mesa too hot to be doin da crunchen."

"Oh well, wesa gettin pasted."

 

Giving Gungans a swimmer and Wookiees a forester would be highly characterful. They are only troopers so them getting into your base wouldn't do much (unless en masse), and their inability to do it on other maps wouldn't disadvantage them at all. Just putting an unmanned turret at forest or water would probably do enough as defense, as they wouldn't be able to shoot from in the water/forest, and they would move too slow to avoid the shots.

[Darth Windu]

Actually i disagree that all civ's should be viable on any map. Personally, i believe that Gungans should be rather bad without water, wookie's bad without forests etc.

 

This would increase realism in resprect to the civ's, and would also give even experienced player's a greater challenge when playing, for example, on a Tatooine map using the Gungan's.

 

PS: Death Star = bad idea

[Sithmaster_821]

Civs must be equally viable on a map to map basis for balance reasons. You cant possibly have one civ be weaker/stronger than any of the other civs, even if its only on one map. And the whole challenge argument doesnt work because thats like saying lets make on civ really really weak and then experts will play it when they want a challenge. No one plays weak civs.

all civ's should be viable on any civ

You never cease to amaze me with your sense of perception.

 

Simwiz, your persistant use of calling separate UU's unit lines and upgrades UU's just proves your gulliblity. Its called clever wording on the part of the game company to make their game seem bigger than it really is. Every game does it, and most people can differeniate. No one here would say that SWGB has 10 different troopers. Russia has 4 but everybody else has 2 (the french have one). The mean, mode, and median is then 2.