Speciality Units Needed

[lukeiamyourdad]

Every civ should be good on any map. I mean Gungans without water won't be too bad. The fought th trade fed battle droid army on grassy plains without water:eek: !

 

And why would wookiees be disadvantaged without Forest? Their is no proof that they are not as good fighters without forests.

[Admiral Vostok]

Sithmaster, these little advantages to the Gungans and Wookiees we're proposing aren't going to be enough to make or break the battle. It would just be a little extra cool thing that the weak troops could do, so it was more characterful for the armies. The fact that Gungan troops could swim - slowly and undefended - won't help you win.

 

You could even make it so repeater troopers would lose the ability, as they can't swim with their weapon or move it through the trees.

 

My point is they won't be disadvantaged when they can't use the ability (in deserts) and they won't be overly advantaged when they can use it.

[Sithmaster_821]

a) Most people have troopers and as main portion of their military, especially early in the game. This means that, depnding on the map, the gungans and wookies have an advantage very early on, when advantages are magnified a tenfold (losing 50 food turned the Chinese from the fastest and strongest civ to the weakest and slowest civ)

b) As I said earlier, this bonus would more affect early troopers than repeaters.

c) If the repeaters lose their weapons after going through water/forests, no one in their right mind would let their units do that

d) This also causes a roaching nightmare because a such-inclined person can retreat a trooper into water/forests, and they would take forever to kill

e) Finally, the ability (and moreso, the loss of repeater weaponry) would be quite hard to program

[lukeiamyourdad]

Sith has good points.

 

I have to add also that Gungans and Wookiees would more then own those maps(especially wookiees).

[Darth Windu]

Again i ask, what is so bad about having map-specific civ's?

 

- Realism would be greatly enhanced

- The civ's would be further distinguished

- create's a challenge to use, for example, gungans on tatooine

 

There is no need to have every civ able to fight everywhere equally well. As we saw in Ep1, the gungans when fighting without naval forces got their butt's kicked well and truly.

[Sithmaster_821]

- Realism would be greatly enhanced

- The civ's would be further distinguished

- create's a challenge to use, for example, gungans on tatooine

-Gameplay will be diminished, and Gameplay>Realism

-No, because, if, lets say you play a water map, everyone will play gungans so there will be even less variety

-No one plays weak civs, even if they want a handicap

 

Windu, if I got a dollar for every time i said Gameplay>Realism to you, I'd be quite rich right now. Its in my sig, so you see it in every one of my posts. Why dont you get the hint?

[simwiz2]

Would the game be fun if one was playing some 4v4's, and every water map there were 8 Gungans, and every forest map there were 8 Wookiees, and every space map there were 8 Rebels, and every desert map there were 8 Confederacies, etc? IMO that would make the game boring and inanely straightforward.

 

- create's a challenge to use, for example, gungans on tatooine

 

Did you think about this one before posting it? People play to WIN. People will not play weak civs, especially in MP games, just to get a "challenge". You are the only one who would.

[lukeiamyourdad]

People look for challenges in SP only so it would have been ok if SWGB was SP only. But in MP it won't work.

[Dark Merkaba]

my god, its like you guys dont want anything in one civ that isnt in another or thats in AoN, or AoE or what ever other game it is. "well if rebels had a blue man, then they would own the blue map because you wont see them. and if one unit can do that, then the whole civ would easily kill the other and then everyone would want to be that civ. And you do know that 'gameplay>realism'!"

 

i think that map specific CIV's are a bad idea, but civ's with map specific UU's is a great idea.

 

wookies wouldnt own the map if they had a special unit, or UU, that while it walked through forests lost the ability to fight and moved slow. if you are playing against them, send some fighters or bombers to patrol the forests. Or have some long ranged weapons around. Same for the gungan unit that can swim, you know they can swim, make some more boats and have them patrol around blasting the gungans out of the water (who will not have the ability to fight back on their own.) for the gungans it would only make sence for one unit to swim because i couldnt see a grenader swim with a load of grenades and a launcher over its shnoulder.

 

this would greatly add to the game. its more real and true to the movies, (which doesnt have to be exact im my eyes. we only saw a small part of everything, and dont know what else they can and cant do) and adds a whole new level to the gameplay where you would have to take different measures and fortify other areas of your base you normally wouldnt with other civs.

 

also, i really doubt that if there is a map of nothing but forests, all the opposing team would make if a wookiee who has the strength of say, a medium trooper or so, to attack a base. Air support? send in a few jets and boom, all dead. its a little thing that wont make or break the civ. maybe they could use them as a flanking unit to draw some attention away from the front lines. nothing to extent of destroying a base on their own. it will just add a bit more realism and diversity to the (IMO) culturally and militarily (SP?) UNdiverse game.

 

also, if the gungans were on tatooine, they wouldnt be at a disadvantage, they simply would not be able to swim. not die because they have no water. and the same with the wookiees. just cause they dont have forests for one specific unit to use its specific ability doesnt mean that the game is lost. it just means dont waste your money on researching that ability or unit.

[Darth Windu]

I didnt say some civ's should be map-specific, just that they should be significantly better on certain map's.

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by Darth Windu

I didnt say some civ's should be map-specific, just that they should be significantly better on certain map's.

 

Same thing..........

 

 

Dark Merkaba- It's not like we don't want the civ to be diverse, we just care about gameplay.

 

NOTE: If there ever is a SWGB2, it will be with UU sets(90% sure). If you add those kinds of units in SWGB1, not gonna be good.

[Admiral Vostok]

It is pretty hard to win with just troopers. Even early in the game, unless backed up with mounted troopers, laser trooper rushes are not terribly successful. At that stage of the game, having a unit that can walk through certain terrain wouldn't make a difference, since you can't build walls in tech level 1 anyway. Lets face it, if a guy has enough troopers in tech level 1 or 2 to take out your command center without you being able to kill them, that guy would have won anyway.

 

I never said repeater troopers would lose their repeater, I said repeater troopers would lose their ability to walk through water/trees.

 

It would be amazingly easy to defend against. You only need to build a light wall on your side of the terrain and they can't get in.

 

And Markeba is right, having one unit able to do something not terribly powerful won't tip the balance very greatly. You could even limit the ability further so trooper recruits couldn't do it.

 

Personally, I wouldn't chose Gungans on a water map purely based on this relatively weak ability. A single turret on the shore line or a stretch of light wall and I'm in trouble.

[Dark Merkaba]

thats what im saying. any kind of defence would really hamper their ability. they would mainly be a scouting party, or to harass some workers.

 

on a different note. i think that time and weather should change as the game plays. Say, for every ten/twenty minutes of play, day would turn to night. when this happens, the screen gets dark, lights from buildings turn on and cast shadows, and attack ranges get reduced by, say a quarter. also, this would help in creating extra units, buildings, and graphics. (even though lucus uses other engines. if they made their own it would work) new units would be night troopers who have the same attack range at night as day, or maybe that would be an upgrade at level 4 or so. buildings would be a new sentury post that has a spot light upgrade that has a light or two that constantly moves around the darkness looking for enemies. and maybe a droid that when it is around, raises the attack ranges back to normal, or lights up a large area around it so they can see. this would make for some really good night battles and raids. knock out a sentury post with the light and the units are at a disadvantage. i think that the sheilds at night would look really good, maybe like the light waves you see at the bottom of the pool. even though this would be rather hard to program, it would be cool.

 

weather would also be cool. every now and then, it starts to rain, snow, what ever. tatooine, large dust storms that reduce movement and vision, violent sea storms that hamper ship movement. stuff like that. each one hampering the battle, or slow the process of building. what would be cooler than to wait until it starts to snow at night, to cover a frozen lake, attack a sentury post and take out the spot light, and send in a squad of units that can see at night, or have a night droid with them.

that, i think, would add a $hit load of new gameplay features.

 

i also think that workers should be able to repair broken bridges. also, you should be able to destroy bridges, and the landscape. all of this would be cool, but i dont think that lucus arts would be the ones to pull it off.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

The day/night idea won't work, too complicated. Only day/night scenarios.

 

Weather would be cool, and easy tyo achieve, but only graphically, or it will have the same problmes as night/day.

[Dark Merkaba]

i dont think it would be complicated at all. the screen turns dark, levels are lowered. new tactics are formed. day comes, ranges are normalized, old tactics resume. new battle tactics, longer and more diversified gameplay, more real life, more things to worry about. "Sh!t, nights coming, better build some sentury posts where my patroling squad is before i get a raid."

 

o, have any of you played the extremely onld game 'Deadlock' that game had the best idea behind creating units in any game. i think the AON or what ever games you all refer to use it too. there are dozens of technologies, dozens of units, and dozens of buildings, and a certain combo of each would yeild a certain unit. this would be cool. and add to the strategic area of the game. what would you research first, better weapons, or better armor, or different units?

 

i saw this in a bunch of other threads that i cant remember so im gonna say it here, people who think that if there was a death star all they would do is sit back and attack from a far, not true. one, it should take time, money, and specific units. even then, the only time that would happen is if you played a person who only did that, and didnt spend any time building a defence. and if that happened, o god would you guys flame him until he changed his name. i think that the people who are pushing aside the idea of arial bombardments or very long ranged weapons think thats all the newer people are going to use. i read somewhere that a person didnt like comand and conquer because all you had to do was use the ion cannon and the air strike to win. well, sure, if you didnt want to actually play the game and had 3 days to waste on destroying a base with buildings that some times took 2 or 3 hits to destroy.

 

have the empire get the Star Destroyer, rebels an ICBM (i know, i know, its not in any of the movies, but neither is the pummel or any of the boats!) or some kind of long ranged missile, maybe the gungans a very long ranged artilary that can be attacked and destroyed, you guys can come up with some good, well ballanced ideas im sure.

 

i also say a post that was excellent. the person said that the civ's attacks should relate to their nature in the movie. like the naboo should primarily only retaliate, the TF should have a lot of quick attacks, and the empire have a few strong ATAT's at a time kind of thing. <---- good idea!

[Admiral Vostok]

I like the weather idea. You'd have sandstorm (tatooine), blizzard (hoth), monsoon (naboo) or similar thatdoes basically the same thing. It reduces movement by a certain percentage, as well as reducing line of sight by a certain percentage. It would be so easy to implement in a game, and would add a lot of excitement. We've seen sandstorms and blizzards in the movies, though not during battle.

 

I'm not sure about day/night though. It sort of contradicts the title "Real Time Strategy". Unless you're suggesting games take days to play? Okay, I know RTS doesn't mean it happens in real time, but I still don't think day/night would benefit the game.

 

I also think a "weapon of mass destruction" doesn't suit Star Wars. Sure, they had the Death Star, but that was what made the Empire so evil, that they DID have a weapon of mass destruction. I other races get a mass destruction weapon, even if it is on a small scale, the significance of the Death Star (and to a lesser extent the Star Destroyers) is diminished.

[Kryllith]

I can see how day/night could affect the game artisticly and gameplay-wise but generating cycles might be a bit problematic. You'd have day and night cycles of just a couple of seconds (less it only takes an hour to build an AT-AT, which might be possible in the Star Wars universe). Of course, if you take a major suspension from reality, then it could work fine, otherwise they'd have to try and link actual build times to minutes, hours, etc. Might be good for short campaign scenarios, when you don't need to build units but simply start out with them or gather them.

 

Outside of that, it would be pretty cool. Turrets could have spotlights, vechicles might have headlights. Upgrades might include infrared sensors. Line of sight could be tightly focused, revealing only terrain/units/buildings in front of a unit instead of 360 degrees of view (or wherever the light shines...).

 

Kryllith

[Dark Merkaba]

well the day and night thing could be made as either a random event on certain maps. say, and hour in the game night falls for the rest of the game, or, it starts out at night.

 

in reply to the building an at-at in and hour, when i play the game i dont point out that one single worker can build a fortress in 2 min. i think it would add to the over all feeling of building a large army. it doesnt take a day to build a base, large army, and destroy the other. maybe the day/night switches back every half an hour or so. so you get both worlds. and its on different worlds, they might have days of complete darkness, and others of complete light, like alaska.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

It's really too much to change your tactics depending on some. random event.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I think the day/night thing would really be purely artistic. It won't reduce LOS a lot and it won't change so many other things. It's just for the fun. And in terms of tactics, it doesn't really matter so much. Like I just said, a little less LOS won't do anything really bad.

[Crazy_dog no.3]

Keep it purely graphical. No dodgy LOS stuff; Too much for average gamer.

[Sithmaster_821]

WC3's day/night cycle is considered one of the worst aspects of the game. They had it in AoM, but playtesting showed that it was just very annoying, and it didnt have any strategic affect. The same applies to weather.

[Admiral Vostok]

Did the day/night in WC3 have any effect on gameplay or was it just aesthetic? I can't remember.

 

Anyway I think weather could be a whole lot more annoying, but that's the point. It would be another thing you would have to deal with in the game.

[lukeiamyourdad]

I agree with Vostok, it should bring something more.

We should put an option to disable it. Like that, everyone is happy.

[Kryllith]

I'm not saying day/night cycles wouldn't work, just that it would require a bit more of a suspension of reality. But we're talking about a fantasy space game already so why not? An entire night game would work too, especially if it takes place on some barrien planet far from a star (or a planet with a very slow rotation).

 

I think weather might be pretty cool. Heck you could toss more upgrades in as a result if you really wanted. For example, you could make the Empire use regular troopers until snow troopers are upgraded to. The upgrade could either build upon the trooper or simply counteract the negative effects of weather. For example, heavy snow could result in lower speed for troopers and perhaps less accuracy and/or LOS and/or range (result of poor visibility). The snowtrooper upgrade would allow them to function normally despite snowy weather. Other civs could get similar upgrades...

 

Kryllith