An Analysis of Star Wars Battle Tactics & Vehicular Design Flaws: Part I

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

 

Not really a bad analogy. We DID bomb vietnam to the ground. We dropped more tonnage of bombs on them then all nations in any other war COMBINED.

 

And you also must remember that star wars takes place a long time ago. Just because WE have developed such military advances by no mean necessitates that THEY have. If you've ever read the Conquerors trilogy (timothy zhan, very good books) there is an alien race with extremely advanced technology and they haven't even basic understanding of exlposives, but they have GREAT knowledge of lasers. Therefore you cannot call lack of homing missiles or sophisticated targeting computer systems a tactical flaw. They may just not have the military knowhow to do it.

 

 

You cannot state this, there is no reason to expect that mercenaries would have the funds or manpower or contacts to be able to aquire cruiser type ships.

 

 

Note that all my arguments are based 100% on the movies. If i haven't seen or been told about it in the movies, it does not exist to me, because if it was supposed to be a part of star wars it would have been in the movies.

 

Just because they're along time ago,doesnt mean that they are less advanced. Proboly some calamity destroyed the race,leaving only earth. So all the tecnology was gone. Also, since they have missles,we know they have the tecnology.

 

Also, that "Note that all my arguments are based 100% on the movies. If i haven't seen or been told about it in the movies, it does not exist to me, because if it was supposed to be a part of star wars it would have been in the movies." kinda has a problem. By that count,there's no other battles,wars, or anything like that.

[ET Warrior]

Is there any evidence to suggest that there ARE any other battles taking place in the star wars universe?

 

I'm not saying that they're less advanced, i'm saying they advanced their technology in a different direction.

[Tyrion]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Is there any evidence to suggest that there ARE any other battles taking place in the star wars universe?

 

Ah,but there are tracking missles on Jango's ship, so there's evidence towards missle capailities.

[ET Warrior]

Missile CAPABILITIES, yes. Actual use? No.

 

Since we've never seen any other ships use missiles like Jango used it's possible that those are a unique technology, not known of. And perhaps it cost him several million credits for ONE of those missiles. Outfitting a ship with hundreds of those would be outrageously expensive, especially since they are of limited quantity, and since any effective military in star wars must cover the ENTIRE universe, that translates into billions upon billions upon billions of credits to build, supply, and maintain those ships.

[PowerBroker]

Originally posted by JediNyt

If youll remember that the Naboo fighters took out the shield generator so thats why Ani didnt blow up when he flew through where the shield would be.

 

The Naboo fighters didn't even lower the stations shields, let alone destroy the shield generator (which was probably armored). The evidence backs me up. First, let's examine two quotes (both from the antagonists and protagonists, so no bias).

 

"The deflector shield is too strong!" - Naboo pilot on attack approach. This clearly indicates that despite heavy bombardment, they were not even able to penetrate the deflector shield. This is supported by the fact that not even superficial damage is given to the battle station after numerous torpedo hits.

 

"Impossible. Nothing can get through our shield" - DCS Commander after Anakin destroyed the reactor. Although this quote came after the main reactor was destroyed, it clearly indicates that the shields were up, and nothing was getting through. Thus not only was the shield generator operable, no part of the shield was damaged. That means that the bay doors weren't supposed to be shielded!

 

Originally posted by JediNyt

And having the Force made it possible to fly through all those hangers in a crippled ship. No one else could do that. It was like podracing to him.

 

Remember, Anakin was the only human on Tatooine who could podrace. Non humans who did not have an affinity with the force could podrace, and thus could most likely replicate Anakin's feat. Besides that, we never see someone who cannot maneuver through the Federation docking bay, only someone who can. Therefore, it is pure speculation to say that no one else could do that. From analysis of the obstacles necessary to surmount to enter the hangar bay where Anakin fired from, it is quite easy to see that the skills of many military pilots, coupled with a slow speed fighter like the N-1, would allow them to emulate the feat. Besides which, a cruise missile could also emulate that feat.

 

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Not really a bad analogy. We DID bomb vietnam to the ground. We dropped more tonnage of bombs on them then all nations in any other war COMBINED.

 

I assume that you also know that most of the bombs we dropped were poor quality iron bombs, and were targeted with poor intelligence and poor airframes? Today's technology is incredibly precise, and will become even more precise with the introduction of the JSF and laser technology. Any modern military can be easy decimated by the aerial prowess of the United States, and the latest aerial microwave technology can make urban combat twice as easy. Just think of the technological advancement between a civilization that can make a small city with one hundred story grounded buildings vs. a civilization that can build a planet sized city with buildings reaching tens of thousands of stories.

 

Originally posted by ET Warrior

And you also must remember that star wars takes place a long time ago. Just because WE have developed such military advances by no mean necessitates that THEY have. If you've ever read the Conquerors trilogy (timothy zhan, very good books) there is an alien race with extremely advanced technology and they haven't even basic understanding of exlposives, but they have GREAT knowledge of lasers. Therefore you cannot call lack of homing missiles or sophisticated targeting computer systems a tactical flaw. They may just not have the military knowhow to do it.

 

I don't know if you believe in evolution, ET Warrior, but it is a very accurate theory not just for biological evolution but for technological advancement.

 

By nature, the purpose of military research is to develop a range of weapons that will enable the armed services of an entity of polity to have an edge. This is acquired through the diversification of research to include all forms of equipment: from rifles to cruisers. A military with only, say, missiles, and no projectile weapons can be defeated easily by anti-missile armor. A military with both missiles and projectile weapons is a lot more versatile, and does not have an obvious weak spot. This is socialogical evolution at its finest.

 

Weapons developed is spurred by many factors, and usually requires a potential enemy to be successful. As human history has shown, a planet with an intelligent species, isolated from outside interference, will factionize and fight for territory. Eventually, they will begin to research more powerful weapons so they can dominate more territory. This leads to the enemy researching counters to their weapons, and weapons of their own. Pretty soon, battles will get very large and very important. So, to get an advantage, a military will naturally branch out their research to include all possible weapons that give them an advantage. This eventually leads to the stage we're at now, with one or two superpowers constantly developing every single military device that gives them an advantage and allows them to retain their supremacy. Once they've secured their supremacy, another civilization will counter their weapons, and the planet will be thrown into war. This cycle will continue, across planets, if the civilizations colonize. In the end though, it comes down to this: as long as there is an enemy present, the competing civilizations will always equip their military with the best arms they can, and will research diversely.

 

Now, as to why missiles are important. Missiles are a very powerful military tool. As we speak, they are coming into their own, with the development of cruise missiles such as the Tomahawk and extremely smart missiles like the JDAM and JSAW. Missiles can be guided, and can have a preprogrammed course. Blasters can have that. Missiles can also be equipped with a FAR more powerful warhead than blasters. That's why missiles are the most important munition today, and the most important munitions in the future. Not developing missiles goes against the very being of the theory of evolution, since missiles are a very cheap and powerful weapon that are easy to mass produce. That is why it is a serious flaw in the navies of Star Wars, and why I believe they are in there somewhere.

 

As for Zahn's civilization, it too is flawed. Explosives are a very important technology. Not having them opens the floodgates for competitors to develop defenses that stop lasers but don't stop explosives. If that civilization doesn't recognize that its systems are then ineffective against the enemy, they'll be eliminated by the fitter species.

 

Same thing with advanced guided systems. They give the owner a tremendous advantage, one that is almost better than a weapon. Not having them is preventing the owner from executing both precision strikes, and preventing civilian casualties. Not to mention hitting weakspots rather than strong spots. Again, this goes against the grain of evolution and is a serious flaw.

 

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Is there any evidence to suggest that there ARE any other battles taking place in the star wars universe?

 

Yes. Evidence supports previous Trade Federation battles and a small Rebel victory preceding Episode Four. Evidence also suggests confrontation between the Rebels and the Empire other than what is shown on the film. The battles of the Clone War are also implied rather than witnessed.

 

Originally posted by ET Warrior

Since we've never seen any other ships use missiles like Jango used it's possible that those are a unique technology, not known of.

 

Fatal flaw.

 

Originally posted by ET Warrior

And perhaps it cost him several million credits for ONE of those missiles. Outfitting a ship with hundreds of those would be outrageously expensive, especially since they are of limited quantity, and since any effective military in star wars must cover the ENTIRE universe, that translates into billions upon billions upon billions of credits to build, supply, and maintain those ships.

 

Missiles, even those on Jango's ship, are not very expensive. Since they seem to be so good, any smart corporation would mass produce them and sell them cheaply for a huge profit. That they aren't violates both economic law and the theory of evolution. Oh, and Star Wars only takes place in a single galaxy.

[ET Warrior]

How can you be certain that star wars missiles are cheap to mass produce? Perhaps the necessary materials to build those are rare in the galaxy and are extraordinarily expensive and difficult to acquire.

[PowerBroker]

Originally posted by ET Warrior

How can you be certain that star wars missiles are cheap to mass produce? Perhaps the necessary materials to build those are rare in the galaxy and are extraordinarily expensive and difficult to acquire.

 

Because almost any metal can be used to make a missile, and they obviously have enough silicon (or whatever they use for computer chips) around. All the materials they need they already use, so we know they have them in abundance.

[lukeiamyourdad]

NOTE: This discussion is getting pointless.

[Kryllith]

Don't know if this has been brought up, but has anyone considered that the reason missiles (if available) typically aren't fired at fighters might be because said fighters may have advanced ECM (or the equivalent) that could scramble the targeting of said missiles and make the useless? Heck, for all we know the Jedi Starfighter has one and that's why Jango waited until he'd actually damaged it with lasers before firing a missile at it. Why didn't he just fire missiles at it from the outset?

 

It may well be that the capital ships do have missiles, and they might use them against one another. Certainly the capital ships would be much bigger, much slower targets, so even if a missile's systems does it scrambled, it could still stand a good chance of hitting its intended target if it just keeps going straight. But the same is unlikely to happen with the fighter. The missile would keep going straight while the fighter uses it's speed and manueverability to veer off target.

 

So instead of wasting missiles on fighters, the Capital ships use their lasers in hopes of getting a lucky shot, or release fighters to dogfight.

 

Kryllith

[Purple_Tentacle]

i liked jango's 'smart' missile, but i keep thinking that just one of those missiles could have taken out the deathstar 1....or 2 for that matter...quite easily.

 

i guess the taget area was too small, even for a computer.

[ET Warrior]

I like Kryllith's explanation. An advanced scrambling system on all fighters makes missiles like those nearly useless against fighters. Takes a good solid hit to the structure, forcing energy to be expended on recharging shields and not powering the scrambler unit......excellent.......

[JediNyt]

Ill give my final post here and hope this pointless thread is then ended. PowerBroker you dont know every technical detail about SW weaponry. You only know about Earth weaponry. You cant really compare the two. You have to understand how advanced the SW galaxy is. You know nothing of their countermeasures and the like. You only concentrate on what you think are the negative details of SW. At least thats how you act.

 

Quoted from starwars.com:

The Force was with rookie pilot Anakin Skywalker as he landed his N-1 starfighter in the control ship's hangar bay and fired twin proton torpedoes into the ship's unprotected reactor. The resulting explosion crippled the droid army, and ensured victory for the besieged Naboo and Gungan forces.

 

Unprotected. Did you read that? Unprotected reactor. Why? Like I said before the Federation guys are not brilliant tacticians. They are rich political fools! Just listen to them.

 

Have you ever encountered a Jedi Knight before sir?-Rune Haako

 

Well uh no but I dont uh...-Nute Gunray

 

Throught the whole movie you see how foolish they are. Sidious used them and made them believe it was so easy to blockade and control Naboo. Of course they didnt expect a small fighter to accidently fly into the hanger. Of course they didnt expect a talented pilot to find his way into where the unprotected reactor was. They didnt want to hassle with a more protected reactor. There was no way anyone could get in there. Well they were dead wrong. They only care and think about numbers. If we have so many soldiers and fighters then noone will beat us! Thats how they think. They got enough money to build a huge droid army. They got great firepower and enough soldiers to threaten pretty much any civilization. But they arent very bright.

 

These federation types are cowards.-Qui-Gon Jinn

 

You think the Naboo were fighting the Empire? No way. If they were theyd get wasted. They were fighting the Trade Federation. You must look at the obvious.

 

Now on the cruze missle idea. First of all any missle could do the job here. Or were you just making an example? Anyway, to fly a proton torpedo (which is what they were using) into a hanger, manuever it though many more hangers packed with ships and then find the main reactor is not easy pal. First it must have a target. How will it get this target? It must sense it. It would have to sense through the huge shield, through the outer hull, through the inner hull, and then find the reactor itself surrounded by much activity. That is a lot of penatration for the sensers to do. Not possible for a small missle in a small fighter against a huge star ship that probably has sensor jammers.

 

But again look at the obvious. Do you really think that in all that caos and fighting, that the pilots are gonna spend their time making slow passes on the ship dinking with their targeting computers to lock onto the main reactor and if they somehow found it, then target and fire a missle at the source where it would just fly directly at the source and hit the ship instead? Pointless. Theyd be space debrit in seconds.

 

Btw a missle would have to know everything about the interior of the ship meaning have the plans of the ship in its targeting system. It doesnt matter how manueverable a missle is. It couldnt do it. And since when would the Federation give its ship plans to its rivals?

 

Now see how nuts and confusing all this is? Its crazy. Just pointless. Look at the obvious. Take in all the info the movie gives you and youll find your answers pretty much. Dont bomb GL work. He knows more than you do.

 

Out.