CorranSec Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Oh, yeah, right. Sorry, I meant to agree with that in the earlier post, but I forgot it, and I had to go, so I didn't edit it in. So yes. The Dark Jedi Master will be far more of an uber-combat unit, with no stomach for sneaking around. Lightning can be devastating against whole groups of enemies, while Conversion can pluck that essential siege artillery right out of the opponent's arsenal and into yours. The DJM's attack will be larger than the JM's (although the JM's is still nothing to laugh at, for fear of getting your head lopped off), and possibly have more health. They are something to be feared, and can be crucial to turn the tide of a battle. If you do manage to get the whole 10 of them, you will be able to stop quite a lot of enemy forces, but all things come to an end. They can be stopped by sheer weapons power, but I was thinking of that little Bounty Hunter employment idea... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 Cool. What are we going to do with this thread now that we've finished discussing the Jedi? Go back to Snipers? Nah. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted April 10, 2003 Share Posted April 10, 2003 well, with joesdomain complaining about the off-topicness of threads, DMUK will probably close it and temp ban us. But I'm happy we have finally ended this 3 page discussion about How Jedi Powers should be dealt with.... now we have to work on the "Is EU Star Wars Discussion" hehe j/k. that one would be like.... 100s of pages Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Not that I want to start another EU discussion here but no-one has replied to the evidence against EU I presented on the Kamino Civ thread. Victory for the forces of Purity! Now, I thought what we can use this thread for. We've got the Jedi Powers now, but how are they going to be divided amongst the Jedi units, Corran? Do Padawans get any? Will Knights and Masters get some of the same powers? Perhaps as a way to implement your limits on Jedi Masters, Corran, we could use an experience points system. I know it's been howled down before, but I'm suggesting it only for Jedi. Padawans get a certain amount of XP then they can become Knights (though you could choose to keep them as Padawans if you wanted to). Knights eventually can be upgraded to Masters. But if you are so super good with you XP that you get to the point of having 10 masters, you can't upgrade Knights until one of the Masters dies. As a side note I think it should be 12 masters, not 10, so it matches the Jedi Council (I'm not saying they are the Jedi Council, it would just seem 12 is a better number than 10). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Ah, didn't the Kamino Civ get banished to the far pits of the Nine Hells and left to be fed upon by random demonic essences for all eternity? (aka deleted by DMUK) Okay. Well, I was thinking that Padawans get no powers. I don't think there's any power that's weak enough to qualify for them. JKs get Push, while DJKs get Grip. The stats of both Ps and both Ks are basically equal. JMs get Conceal and Confuse, while DJMs get Lightning and Conversion. We already discussed their stats, I think. XP sounds good for Padawans>Knights- it'd be lots of fun, and quite real. However, I think Masters are something entirely and hugely different to normal Jedi (Padawans and Knights), and thus should be built independently. The 12 idea sounds good too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Originally posted by Admiral Vostok Not that I want to start another EU discussion here but no-one has replied to the evidence against EU I presented on the Kamino Civ thread. Victory for the forces of Purity! becuase it got deleted Yea I agree with Corran. Ps get nothing, K get a lil better stats and powers, and Ms get all the powers and a lil stat upgrade Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Hmmm....exp.... Isn't that a little bit...tough? How will they get exp? A padawan is way too weak. And besides it's a it too much microing although quite realistic and fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joesdomain Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Back to the snipering issue! I think it might be cool to allow troopers or other units to hide or garrison in buildings and shoot out of the building at enemy units. That way they can't be harmed by enemy fire without the building being destryed first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Ok.... I believe we solved the sniper issue like........ 8 pages ago A padawan IS weak. They're just learning the ways of the force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joesdomain Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Then the thread should be closed because the thread is titled "Snipers". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 We're talking about GB. Just because it's not about Snipers or the beginning subject it doesn't mean it has to be deleted. Quit being a wannabe Mod and get over it.... sorry if I sound harsh..... but his complaing in getting annoying Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Totally agree with Corran, except you forgot that Masters also get Force Heal as we discussed. However I think XP could still be the way to go for Knights->Masters. I see it as a less obvious way to enforce the 12 Master limit. However, I can see the benefits of straight-out construction. If we use straight-out Master construction, I think we should add a thing that Padawans near Masters earn XP quicker. Oh and by the way the Kamino Civ Thread is still unlocked and on the list... for the moment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 oooh. You're saying at first you make padawans and as they battle they gain experience? That shouldn't be too hard to accomplish. CnC: Generals has something like that. After a while in battle troops/tanks/air gains "veterancy." I think AoM has something like that too. i can't remember, it's been awhile since a played it... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I don't think it should just be ''awhile''. Maybe you can create padawans, build a ''Jedi Academy'', put them in there and after a while they become knights. After they become knights they can start killing things and after they killed X amount of things they become masters. It's more realistic then sending padawans on the front line... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
swphreak Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 but a padawan has to undergo a mission that is assigned to them in order to achieve their rank as Knight. Maybe after padawans kill like 5 or 10 things they become knights. That's sticking to the movies somewhat unless we don't care about being strictly to Star Wars... besides, Pads will still kick troopers' butts Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 It depends...they'll get killed too easily late in the game. You'll have to start making Padawans really early if you want strong masters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 Having them garrison in the Jedi Temple might be realistic, but I don't think it could work all that well. I see Padawans as being somewhat better than they currently are, but still not as good as a Knight, so they will be able to survive in battle. They'll only get killed easily in late game if you send them inot battle alone. Back them up with some protection and you'll be good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 Well yeah if the Padawans are stronger then they currently are it'll work. I was thinking about Force Jump. Maybe it could be an ability to leap over enemy lines(but not walls) Like striking the enemy from the back you take your masters and use force jump for them to get to the back. and while they jumb they can't be hit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joesdomain Posted April 17, 2003 Share Posted April 17, 2003 I always thought it would be cool to garrison your Jedi/Sith in the temples. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted April 20, 2003 Share Posted April 20, 2003 I don't think putting the Pads in the temple would be good. Just stick to the exp thing. If it is in the late game, just put them in with a normal battle team and they'll become Knights quite swiftly. I don't know about Jump. It sounds good, but it might disturb the balance we've created. Who would get it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Maybe (since I'd like to see no relics... er I mean holocrons) garrisoning Jedi provides a flow of credits. Other than that, Padawans can not get XP that way. Not sure how Force Jump could work, think about the Battle of Geonosis and how weird it would look with Jedi jumping around. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 Yeah, Jump would make things a bit weird. Here's a new idea for the experience-points thing. If a Padawan is in the company of a Knight, he gets a small (say, 5%?) boost to any exp points he gets. If a Padawan is with a Master, he gets a larger exp boost (10%?) as well as gaining an exp percentage (5%?) for everything the Master kills. This should make it quite a bit easier for Padawans to level up when you are far enough in the game to already have plenty of Masters and Knights. It also fits with realism- the master is teaching his apprentice about the ways of the Force and helping him to progress to a higher level. To expand on this, maybe Knights would need experience to obtain their Force Powers... just a thought. Also, you could twist the entire thing around, and make it that Padawans gain an experience penalty when they are not with a higher-ranked Jedi, and a lesser penalty when they're with another Padawan. This shows that Jedi with no actual training can't really learn that much without quite a bit of time to spare. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 I agree with the XP boost whilst in the presence of higher-ranked Jedi. I am undecided on the needing XP for Force powers, but I'd probably say no as it starts to get too minor-detailed. I disagree with the penalty for Padawans. For starters, this is already present in the fact that they just don't get a bonus. Also, sometimes the Padawans are sent off by themselves such as Anakin to protect Padme and many of the Padawans in the Arena Battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 XP for powers wouldn't be that minor-detailed. You just send your Knight into combat, and eventually he gets some things that make him better at combat. As for the Padawan penalty- the practical effect is exactly the same as the bonus, it's just a negation of a penalty rather than the addition of a bonus. I just thought it's more realistic that they're not good at learning while alone rather than being simply better at learning when with a teacher. And sure, Padawans can be sent off to perform individual missions, but you don't see them learning anything on the scale as they would in a practice situation with their teacher, do you? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted April 22, 2003 Share Posted April 22, 2003 So when exactly does a Padawan gain experience at a 'normal' rate? When in the presence of Knights/Masters he gets a bonus, but when outside the presence of Knight/Masters he gets a penalty. I would say just leave it so that when outside the presence of Knights/Masters they get no bonus or penalty. Their base XP rate resembles their ability to learn on their own. When in the presence of a teacher they learn better, but without the teacher's presence they won't have a negative learning effect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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