Thoughts on promod

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by TK_Nutritious

 

heh I do occasionally. I've only been playing promod for a couple days, but I am starting to see some of the imbalance issues you are discussing here.

 

I'm not sure if I agree that sith are as weak as most ppl think, probly the worst thing that can happen to me is getting gripped and single-shot slashed. Even after grip is turned off I'm still stuck in place just long enough for a well timed hit. Though maybe a raise in lightning damage would be appropriate.

 

Second, I wouldn't touch jetpack fuel duration: anyone at all familiar with how it worked in tribes 2 shouldn't have a problem using it here. I think the ppl that don't think it's effective enough just need to learn how to use it correctly.

 

One of the biggest problems I see in gunner vs. saber is when the gunner gets pulled/pushed to the ground. It's too easy for the gunner to escape by hitting jetpack as he gets instant altitude away from the saber. An idea I had earlier was maybe you wouldn't be able to use jetpack immediately after getting pulled, but saber damage is cut in half. So instead of escaping 5 times in a row and taking no damage, the gunner would die after it happening at least 2 times. I'm still trying to think of a good way to keep the gunner from escaping too easily yet make pulling a gunner over still a viable tactic.

 

Something I definately do want to see is a raise in riot prod damage. I mean come on, if I'm gonna stand up to a jedi's lightsaber at least make the prod kill in 2 or 3 hits

 

Oh yeah, another thing. I think of all weapons the flak gun is too powerful. Fire 2 volleys into a crowd of fighting jedi and it's all over for all of them. A way to improve this would be to keep the direct-hit damage the same for the secondary fire, but reduce the splash damage from the explosion of the shots. This would make it still powerful if you aim it right, but would also balance it a bit better to keep people from just spamming it everywhere.

 

Well that's all I can think of for now, hope this helps somewhat.

 

Artifex jots down notes on his 3.1 changes list...

[Wolf Devil]

Oh yeah, another thing. I think of all weapons the flak gun is too powerful. Fire 2 volleys into a crowd of fighting jedi and it's all over for all of them. A way to improve this would be to keep the direct-hit damage the same for the secondary fire, but reduce the splash damage from the explosion of the shots. This would make it still powerful if you aim it right, but would also balance it a bit better to keep people from just spamming it everywhere

 

You should know, you've taken out two jedi at a time per blast: one with a direct hit, the second with the splash damage.

[t3rr0r]

Originally posted by TK_Nutritious

Something I definately do want to see is a raise in riot prod damage. I mean come on, if I'm gonna stand up to a jedi's lightsaber at least make the prod kill in 2 or 3 hits

by riot prod do you mean the shocklance type thing?

[Wolf Devil]

It's called the stun baton!!! To the both of you: THE STUN BATON. Don't you two even read the manual or did you ever read the descriptions in the weapon's segment in the tab menu in SP? Besides that: the name appears underneath any item, force or weapon when selected!

[TK_Nutritious]

Originally posted by Wolf Devil

It's called the stun baton!!! To the both of you: THE STUN BATON. Don't you two even read the manual or did you ever read the descriptions in the weapon's segment in the tab menu in SP? Besides that: the name appears underneath any item, force or weapon when selected!

 

Bah! Riot Prod = Deus Ex Shocklance = Tribes 2

Stun baton = JK2, what's the difference?

 

I just had an idea, since it's called the STUN BATON, why not make it stun people in promod? Maybe if you hit someone with it they can't move for a second allowing you to shoot them or something? Whatcha think?

[Lathain Valtiel]

*Remembers Nut's CLASSIC kill by repeated baton shocks to the testicular region on ZWZ...* Hilarious. Sick as all hell though.

[Wolf Devil]

To Nu: Stunning vs kill in 2 to 3 hits... Hmm.. I think the latter would be the better of the two, but I think best would be lvl 4 stormtrooper rifle primary damage.

 

MMXP: How would you know? You kept making obscene jokes about it and Nutritious's name.

[Doctor Shaft]

In terms of stunning, I think that would be a cool feature. Stunning. Although I don't know exactly how useful that would be, at the same time, I can't see that as game stopping.

 

Also, I had always suggested the lightning cause stun damage as well, not like the suggestions where it destroys guns, that's someone else's idea. But if you look at it, it's the only power the basically runs power through your body, and yet everyone can really just run around and shrug it off. No one would ever approve of lightning being beefed up in the damage department, as too many people seem to be unable to handle that attack (for reasons unknown to me).

 

That's the only force power in promod that i've got beef with. playing the game, i've seen every force power put to good use. speed works. pull/push, though still as random as ever in terms of knock downs, even when a person has no force points (seriously, i think this should be looked into as well. I mean, no force points, and yet there is rarely a knockdown unless repeated push/pulls are used), it still works. protect is finally useful. absorb has always had its use. drain works well against other jedi, grip is good against gunners if you get yoru positioning right, nad its a great anti rage technique. rage, well, you know, just go nuts. but lightning lacks. it gets kills, and I like to use it, and i've gotten kills, but only because the guy just kind of panicked and ran around in circles while I zapped him. it was easy. if someone moves, i don't know what to do with lightning.

 

So we can do two things.

1) up the damage. this would be the easiest thing to do.

 

2) give it some other kind of function. that would require more work, also it may just simply not be feasible.

 

Higher damage would be good, something significant. Promod is all about micro management. The gunne has to make sure the fuel doesn't go empty in the middle of battle, and the jedi has to make sure the force is in tact, and because he can't really fight long range, he must also constantly use the force to keep out of harms way. lightning doesn't really require much jetpack or force use to beat. they get close, hop back, then charge with a whopper of an attack. gunners... come on, it's not hard to figure that one out. So long as i have enough life, I'm confident that I can really just rush the lightning user and make them pay. A good increase would make me think twice i guess. Remember, drain and absorb are effective counters. and if they put their points into lighning 3, they will have a major deficieny in some force area. you won't be force to have a counter for lightning.

[Wolf Devil]

The destruction of a gunner's gun once their shields fell was my idea, Doc. And I don't think lightning should stun since it would be kind of cheap

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by Doctor Shaft

...That's the only force power in promod that i've got beef with. playing the game, i've seen every force power put to good use. speed works. pull/push, though still as random as ever in terms of knock downs, even when a person has no force points (seriously, i think this should be looked into as well. I mean, no force points, and yet there is rarely a knockdown unless repeated push/pulls are used), it still works. protect is finally useful. absorb has always had its use. drain works well against other jedi, grip is good against gunners if you get yoru positioning right, nad its a great anti rage technique. rage, well, you know, just go nuts. but lightning lacks. it gets kills, and I like to use it, and i've gotten kills, but only because the guy just kind of panicked and ran around in circles while I zapped him. it was easy. if someone moves, i don't know what to do with lightning.

 

Don't worry, lightning will be getting a new ability in 3.1 that should make it very useful against both Jedi and Gunners. I'm going to give it a bit more extended range, and it will explode mechanical projectiles in midair if they are struck witht the lightning. This would mean that the Golan shots, the RL shots, and various explosives would all be destroyed by a Lightning attack. The alt-repeater fire, however, because it is energy-based, would pass through the lightning unaffected.

 

I've already got a private server up running version 3.1 with a few bug fixes in it. Once all of the bugs are out of the way, I'll be implementing this.

[Wolf Devil]

*claps* Art put in MY suggestion! :D :D

 

No gun destruction though... Poop... ...

 

 

 

........ Ah well! :D

[ArtifeX]

I will also be improving the Wookie Bowcaster to make it more useful. In its current incarnation, its only useful with a full charge at extremely close range. I will most likely increase the speed of its shots to be similar to those of the other blaster weapons. The firing rate and charge rate will remain the same, however.

[Wolf Devil]

Oh no.. what an end: become an ultra powerful Sith, become extremely good with the saber, block rockets and grenades from excellent gunners, annihilate Jedi... only to be killed by a wookie-wannabe!!! *shudders* how embarassing... thank god I suck anyways and I'll be killed by sombody else long before a gunner

[t3rr0r]

any chance rolling with non-lightsaber weapons could be implemented into the mod at some point?

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by t3rr0r

any chance rolling with non-lightsaber weapons could be implemented into the mod at some point?

 

Nope, sorry. All the acrobatic moves are Jedi-only skills. It'd be kinda hard to roll around on the ground with any dexterity with 50+ pounds of weapons and a jetpack strapped to your back.

[t3rr0r]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

Nope, sorry. All the acrobatic moves are Jedi-only skills. It'd be kinda hard to roll around on the ground with any dexterity with 50+ pounds of weapons and a jetpack strapped to your back.

what if a gunner was jumping from a high enough altitude, i'm sure they would prefer to decrease the damage by rolling when they hit the ground (say this person has no fuel or no jetpack period). how about it could result in dropping the weapon if it is a two handed weapon... as a trade-off?

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by t3rr0r

what if a gunner was jumping from a high enough altitude, i'm sure they would prefer to decrease the damage by rolling when they hit the ground (say this person has no fuel or no jetpack period). how about it could result in dropping the weapon if it is a two handed weapon... as a trade-off?

 

I'm pretty sure that any gunners who are falling are willing to take some falling damage in exchange for keeping their weapon. Falling damage for a jetpacker is pretty uncommon anyway, as even a small burst will be enough to take the brunt of your downward velocity.

[t3rr0r]

Originally posted by ArtifeX

I'm pretty sure that any gunners who are falling are willing to take some falling damage in exchange for keeping their weapon.

they could always switch to a one handed weapon prior to rolling.

[ArtifeX]

Originally posted by t3rr0r

they could always switch to a one handed weapon prior to rolling.

 

That's true, but that would be a pretty big handicap to the gunner class when things are nearly balanced at this point. You'll have to check out the Lazarous vs. Nutritious demo that we recorded on Sat. night. I've got Nutritions converting it to a video format for release on jkii.net

[zerowingzero]

Originally posted by MMXP

*Remembers Nut's CLASSIC kill by repeated baton shocks to the testicular region on ZWZ...* Hilarious. Sick as all hell though.

 

 

Nooooo! I had 13 hp left! I was in mid swing! There was some lag! Ahh! I'll never live it down!!

[Wolf Devil]

I think he's talking about the one where you had just respawned and weren't doin nothin...

[zerowingzero]

No i was actually killed mid fight, he had momentum from the jetpack and i had previously gotten my hp down from some other fights... bah.

 

Anyway, gunners have the jetpack for landings and jedi hae roll to reduce damage, something that Laz doesnt know according to the demo i saw on Ns_streets

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

I've a feeling Nutritious would have performed significantly better against Lazarous had the kill limit been higher. Saberists can jump right into the game and start killing right away, Gunners have to take a few minutes to get into the flow of the game and start racking up kills.

 

I've played many games where i've played dreadfully for the first 5 minutes or so (ie 0 kills or even negatives), then proceeded to win the game by about 10-15 kills.

 

The trick to gunning (in my experience) is to get into a rhythm, something which can't be done with low kill limits Heck on a FFA server even 30 kills isn't long enough to really get going.

[Wolf Devil]

*shakes head* I seem to remember last night you had your chat icon up and were in one of the spawn points of ns_hideout and nu camp up and started zappin you repeatedly.. Tabris? You saw it, right?

[Moradivh]

Detritic: I agree that in a big FFA gunners require more time to get their groove on (and at the end of it they tend to dominate). But remember that Nutri and Laz were playing 1v1 on some big maps. This gave Nutri alot more time to fall back until he felt he was ready. The games went on for a while.

 

It took Nutritious all of two deaths before he started toasting Laz consisently, and that's after Laz had been warming up against lesser gunners (and a couple saberists) for almost an hour. Their first game was about 5-2. The next two rounds after that were both around 5-1. I believe Laz won one 4-5, and then lost a couple more heavily.

 

I'm sure I got a few things in the score wrong. Anyone who remembers (and cares) can correct me. That's basically how it went though.

 

EDIT: one more thing... Nutritious didn't start fighting the second he logged in. He was able to spend around 15-20 minutes watching Laz slay everyone else on the server, and in so doing calculate how Laz plays and work out his tactics.