razorace Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 If it's to the point of not fighting to protect your family, yes. There's a difference between valueing human life and refusing to fight for anything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 But razorace, you must understand that fighting can be done without guns and bombs. But if fighting means that you will have to kill someone, then we should all agree that it is a bad thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 That's nice in theory and I agree in that sense. But as long as there are people that refuse to not kill each other or act civilized, wars will continue to be nessicary. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkum Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 in the Gulf War, Iraq had the 3rd largest army in the world and had some chemical an biological weapons, but didnt have nukes. Our government sent in the troops and they killed 170,000 Iraqi troops. about 200 US soldiers died. (Yay for us!) The media is just getting everyone nervous and exaggerating once again. Iraq's weapons are 10 years older and they have fewer of them, they probably dont have nukes (I dont think they have the money or the brains to obtain them, they might thoguh), they're troops arent as well trained as ours either. I dont know why the media is making such a big deal out of it like its WWIII or something. We easily met our objectives in the Gulf War: liberate Kuwait, etc., etc. I dont see how we cant do it again. My point is that war with Iraq will be like the Gulf War, chances are that we'll easily defeat them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Originally posted by Arkum like its WWIII or something. WW3 has already begun. Any country that starts slinging the old "You're either with us or against us" is involving the world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 Maybe, it really depends on how far the US is willing to go to reduce terrorist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin_Solo Posted January 5, 2003 Author Share Posted January 5, 2003 Next target Yemen ? Or what about North Korea? Is america going to let NK get away with trying to obtain Nukes? Of course they are, dont want to fight them, cause if they have to, IT WILL be WW III and with nukes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 5, 2003 Share Posted January 5, 2003 I don't know. I think NK could be convenced to drop the subject if we can talk China in to getting involved on our side. I doubt China wants a fight anymore than we do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Originally posted by razorace If it's to the point of not fighting to protect your family, yes. There's a difference between valueing human life and refusing to fight for anything. The problem of course being that i honestly don't think i am capable of killing another human being. The only chance would be if i KNEW that it either kill them or lose my loved ones. I MIGHT be able to if it were them or me. But just traveling to another country to kill people who haven't even attacked us? I could never do that. they killed 170,000 Iraqi troops. about 200 US soldiers died. (Yay for us!) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin_Solo Posted January 6, 2003 Author Share Posted January 6, 2003 ETwarrior turst me, you would be able to kill another human being. if this person was coming at u with a knife or bomb, and you had a gun or other weapon you would have no choice. You can either sit back and watch your familty die, and yourself or you pull a trigger.... its not going to hurt you is it? the only thing that you will feel is guilt. a common human emotion. but these enemies dont have that feeling, they hate YOU they want to KILL you! they dont care, they love to kill americans or westerners. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breton Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Originally posted by Anakin_Solo they dont care, they love to kill americans or westerners. Well, a few of them. But why do you think they do? They doesn't like it out of fun, they hate Americans because the US goverment gives them reason to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Yes, the US has done things to piss off other people, but that's no excuse for targeting civilians, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Originally posted by Anakin_Solo ETwarrior turst me, you would be able to kill another human being. if this person was coming at u with a knife or bomb, and you had a gun or other weapon you would have no choice. You can either sit back and watch your familty die, and yourself or you pull a trigger.... its not going to hurt you is it? the only thing that you will feel is guilt. a common human emotion. but these enemies dont have that feeling, they hate YOU they want to KILL you! they dont care, they love to kill americans or westerners. Did you actually read my post past the first sentence? I said if it were simply a matter of them and me or my family i probably could. But to travel over to Iraq and kill them? No, i couldn't do it. And i still don't see what terrorism has to do with Iraq. They haven't attacked us, or targeted our civilians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anakin_Solo Posted January 6, 2003 Author Share Posted January 6, 2003 fair enough ET, but have u got proof on that then? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 The US government knows that Iraq finances terrorism one way or another. (cash rewards to the families of suicide bombers.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Originally posted by Anakin_Solo fair enough ET, but have u got proof on that then? Listen here, this is NOT guilty until proven innocent. It does not work that way. Prove the opposite and I might believe you. If we don't go to war, we have some sort of control over Iraq. As long as we can hold Saddam in a deadlock because of the weapon inspections, we can avoid conflict and maybe even pave the way for a peaceful solution. Going to war brings uncertain consequences. Who knows how the whole middleeast will react to that. When America has removed Saddam from power, who are you going to put in his place? There's no north alliance this time, and every arab country in sight will turn hostile if you force American ideals down their throat. Once again, since it appears no one listens: Saddam does not have nukes. Israel does. Go attack them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Kawait isn't hostile. And how are you so sure he doesn't have nukes or some other WOMD? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 Originally posted by razorace And how are you so sure he doesn't have nukes or some other WOMD? I'm not 100% positive that he has nukes, but it's highly unlikely in the eyes of many (excepting USA, of course). WOMD's he most certainly has, but so do many other countries, including your own. I can see why you want to go to war with him, and I understand your reasons, I just don't think you can pull this one off so successfully. Ignoring UN regulations is grounds for actions, but the consequences of the war are way too uncertain. If you were so lucky as to install a seat of power in Iraq, I wonder how the whole arab world would feel about you then... To my eyes, you're only increasing the tension down there if you do this. And if you do go to war without UN sanctions, no one is going to like you. That, I can most certainly say. This does not rest on the shoulders of the US alone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 6, 2003 Share Posted January 6, 2003 That's very true in many ways, but the US tends to be one of the few UN members that actually gets stuff done. Sides, most of the Middle Eastern nations hates the US in the first place, that's why we're in the this mess to start with. If they can't respect the rights of their neighbors, someone has to deal with that. I'm sure all the reasonable Arabs understand why we're pressuring Iraq in the first place. If they're unreasonable, they're going to hate us ether way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediNyt Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 I can just see Bush now dancin round the oval office with his big cowboy hat, boots and holster on yelling Yeeeehhaaaawww!! We're goin ta war!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 You do realize that he's not really a Texan, right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 You do realize that he's not really a Texan, right? George W. Bush is the 43rd President of the United States. Formerly the 46th Governor of the State of Texas, President Bush has earned a reputation as a compassionate conservative who shapes policy based on the principles of limited government, personal responsibility, strong families and local control. President Bush was born July 6, 1946, and grew up in Midland and Houston, Texas. Of course that's just his bio off of the official whitehouse website....they could be wrong...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Monk Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 Ya know the ironic thing about all this? Iraq could be one of our most valuable allies in this "war on terror". Saddam Hussein hates these Muslim fundamentalists: "...[saddam Hussein] has, for the last thirty years, viciously repressed any kind of Islamic fundamentalism in his own country. There are laws on the books in Iraq that say if you proselytize Islamic fundamentalism -- particularly the Wahhabbi Islamic fundamentalism that is practiced by members of Al Qaeda -- you will be put to death. That's the reason why he went after the Kurds. That's one of the big reasons why he went after Iran. He is a secular dictator. And these Islamic fundamentalists who are involved with Al Qaeda hate him." But we've made him our enemy because the president's approval ratings were slipping. Hussein asked permission of the US before invading Kuwait (which was slant-drilling into Iraq, violating their borders), and they got it. Hussein offered to pull out of Kuwait in order to avoid a war with the US, but Bush the First wouldn't let him. Instead, 170,000 Iraqi troops were needlessly slaughtered, including thousands massacred retreating down what's now known as the road of death. But this would be worse... Saddam's not going to leave Baghdad, he's going to bury himself as deep as he can there. And this is no small city, this is a city of four or so million. And we're either going to bomb it or go street-fighting and how many civilians are going to die? You couldn't help targeting them in this kind of operation, and it would be pure ignorance to think that some, at least, wouldn't defend their homes. Attacking Iraq, and Baghdad in particular would be an unforgivable breach of international law and would change the way the US is looked at in the international community. [edit]I was sick last night... seems sicker than I'd thought; fixed a few spelling errors, fixed the number of people in Baghdad to the proper "four or so million".[/edit] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 You got a source for all that? If Hussein is so secular, why is he giving money to the families of suicide bombers? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ET Warrior Posted January 7, 2003 Share Posted January 7, 2003 You got a source for hussein giving money to suicide bomber famlilies? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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