CHANGES/IDEAS FOR UPCOMING SEQUEL/EXPANSION thread

[Smood]

Ok well I opened this thread to discuss what this new sequel/expansion should be, what was done right in jk2 and what should be changed for the next sequel/expansion.

 

Now, I'am not trying to brag but I really feel my suggestions are key points that can make a great game into an unbelievable game.

 

Before I begin I would ask that all posters in this thread limit their ideas to (significant core changes) (i.e. no fix the damn door in yavin). THANKS.

 

|= [THE CHANGES REQUIRED ]======================================

 

============

| SABER COMBAT |

============

 

This is probably the biggest area of change that could make the game simply fantastic. The existing combat was definitely a huge step up from Dark Forces 2, stances were a fairly creative idea and helped the game. Another leap in combat is necessary.

 

The biggest drawback to RAVEN’s saber system is they felt it should be ‘intuitive’ in other words a new player should be able to pick it up right away. In fact, an actual raven employee said on XGR, if you want to master the system you can do that, but if you just want to mash the buttons then its ok for that too, its very intuitive. For me intuitive means simple, basic and something with lack of depth. Which I feel is the current state of saber combat.

 

The combat system I imagine is one where the saber is fluid and organic not mechanical. The saber once swung can be manipulated in almost unlimited fashion with movement of the mouse. This will allow for an unaccountable number of types of attacks and widens the scope of saber combat greatly. To complement this huge core change would be a manual blocking system. The system would be fully manual yielding no auto blocking. Creating effective saber combats with this system could definitely be difficult, one method of ocercoming boundaries set by this design is possibly having a jedi sense level where faint indicators project the region in which a saber will pass moments before it does to help allow the player to react to another individual’s saber.

 

PARRYING

This can be done quite well with the above system, as long as it works around momentum. Saber battling should often have one party who is mainly attacking while the other is defending and numerous switchs in roles. Only a few times should you have individuals both attacking and in essence defending.

 

SKILL

This system while complex and not NOOB friendly, will yield to greater pleasure and appreciation of a skillful game and experience in the end. A noob will stand out like a neon sign in the combat system, they would easily be overpowered by a skilled duelist (refer to THE SABER).

 

============

| MOVEMENT |

============

 

To follow the movies more closely, and to make battling more exciting movement in jediknight needs a large revamp. Instead of being quite fps like, it should be more delicate, and intricate. Some solid suggestions follow.

 

During saber combat individuals are able to move left and right in a very short time, this leads to a cheap fps game/feel not suitable for a type of combat game like jedi outcast. Instead by the same change as above, making the stepping fluid and organic (have movement slower, and better blended) would bring a much greater feel of true saber battling, and movie/real life movement.

 

One key here is making movement slower relative to the world and relative to other individuals.

 

 

============

| THE FORCE |

============

 

The force powers in jedi outcast were fairly well done and a step in the right direction, except for their frequent usage, and commonality. To bring JO to a more movie like feel (less of a cheesy spammy feel), it would be ideal to make forces much stronger, but have them all proportionally cost much more force.

 

An example of the outcomes of this type of change might be less frequent force jumping (similar to movies), grip should be powerful enough to kill an enemy but should do so slowly, and appear to torcher the enemy, however the tradeoff would be the jedi performing the grip would only be able to walk slowly and be exposed to attack.

 

============

| THE SABER |

============

 

THE BIG FACTOR IS DAMAGE!

The saber is a deadly weapon, a touch of it can mean instant dismemberment and cauterization of afflicted body parts. However in JEDI OUTCAST developers have made the same mistake as many other fps games. They reduced the deadliness of the weapon in hopes of preserving game play. This only takes away from game play. As long as a new complex combat system is in place the saber should be lethal. Swinging the saber through any part of body should yield instant decapitation and death of the player, but connecting a clean strike will be difficult if your opponent is equally skilled.

 

The saber looks fairly convincing, and with modifications even better. Maintaining a movie like feel would simply involve changing the core glow slightly to represent a straight tube rather then a pointed end (i.e. ep1 – 2).

 

============

| GRAPHICS |

============

 

This is a fairly obvious and self-explanatory category. Get out of quake world and up the game technology. Be it an existing engine or new one, making graphics more appealing to the player is the only goal here.

 

============

| ANIMATION |

============

 

Animation in JEDI OUTCAST was fairly well done, however was too repetitive and not very varied. In this area I’m simply looking for an expanding of types of animations during combat, and when running (i.e. running normally, running enraged or concentrated [saber held high with too hands close to face]).

 

Again in this category achieving a fluid blended feel is important. Jerking from one animation to another is the one thing that must be avoided.

 

 

CONCLUSION:

This is a big task. These changes demand a lot, but I believe successful implementation of any of them with the appropriate testing and balancing will yield an exciting improvement to an already great game!

[Sithcloak]

I agree with you on most of your points, but I believe that they did try once before to dictate saber movement by the movement of the mouse. Only problem with this is that you would not be able to fluidly control your movement at the same time, most players do use their mouse for percise movements. The keyboard is rather clumsy in this regard.

 

If you have any ideas on how to get around this problem, I'd like to hear them.

 

But not to end on a down beat, I do believe your analisis is very good and does touch on some of the most important points of the game.

 

Sithcloak

[Smood]

Thank you very much sithcloak, I appreciate your feedback. Actually that is one thing I forgot to mention. The system would also work so that the fluid control of the saber is controlled by the mouse, while the DEGREE OF MOVEMENT from one direction to another AND THE SPEED OF MOVEMENT as well AS DIRECTION would be controlled by standard keyboard keys.

 

Pressing the keys gradually after one another would assist in the blending of footfalls, and those movements that register too wild (i.e. left tap twice, right tap 3 times) will be streamlined by code to simulate real life movement.

 

More feedback would be appreciated. I hope I can send this information in to some authority at activision or lucas to look over.

[FK|FallenOne]

Yippy. Those ideas are great for duels. But dueling is only a fraction of the multiplayer aspect of this game. Those changes would absolutely suck in real tffa/ffa/ctf. Whether you like it or not this game was always MEANT to be an FPS. The previous two installments had been as well. If you want all that crap wait for KOTOR. You should post your ideas there. You people that cried about the saber combat originally are the reason why it sucks now. Now you want more changes that will more than likely make the game even more boring. If you want those changes, make a mod yourself. Code it yourself. We (the competitive clan community) want the gameplay issues themselves worked out. Not a whole new system that to me would be boring as hell. Fluid movement usually = slow movement. We like this game because of its speed and fast pased action. Not to be slow and boring. Besides that the method you describe would take a multitude of button combinations. More so then some of the more elaborate moves now. I say fix the gameplay issues but don't change anything so drastically that the only community this game has left is the freaking duelists.

[Luc Solar]

You got some good points but Fallenone is right...sorta.

 

You only focus on duels and lightsabers. There's a lot more to this game. Personally I enjoy all guns-full force-FFA's the most.

Slow movement and guns don't really mix.

 

I think promod did a good job in making saber combat fun again. I'd like to see those ideas implemented in the sequel.

 

New guns and BALANCED force powers would be cool. I'd also like to see more interaction with the surroundigs --> pushable & breakable objects etc.

 

To bring JO to a more movie like feel (less of a cheesy spammy feel)...

 

I don't see a way around this. It all depends on how people play the game. If someone finds a strategy that works, he'll probably spam it 24/7. That's what people are like...spammers

 

If you want cinematic fights, just play with the right people. There's not much you can do if someone thinks it is way cool to have Lando run around like a headless chicken taunting non-stop.

 

WOOOOOHOOOOOOOO!!

[Khaza]

Some of those changes Smood descibed were very good but like FallenOne said they wouldn't work in other gametypes. I think we need lots of different combos/moves (not completely new sabering system), saber should also be more effective. Currently saber is just a glowing stick that is used as a shield if guns are enabled, and if not then kicking is the only way to kill enemy. Those new moves should not be more effective than any other move, instead damage should be calculated by checking where saber hit (locational damage) and for how long time... Also few guns should be modified because they just don't fit into Star Wars universe. Knocking out by a kick was great idea from Raven but it should have been expanded to exposions aswell, think your self being hit by a rocket while having full armour and you would be knocked out by the explosion like in real life (if any human could survive from such blash ).

 

 

I would like if someone from Raven (or whoever is making the game) would read these posts because speculation about these things don't help us at all !

[X_Wing_Pilot]

This is probably the biggest area of change that could make the game simply fantastic. The existing combat was definitely a huge step up from Dark Forces 2, stances were a fairly creative idea and helped the game. Another leap in combat is necessary

 

The biggest drawback to RAVEN’s saber system is they felt it should be ‘intuitive’ in other words a new player should be able to pick it up right away. In fact, an actual raven employee said on XGR, if you want to master the system you can do that, but if you just want to mash the buttons then its ok for that too, its very intuitive. For me intuitive means simple, basic and something with lack of depth. Which I feel is the current state of saber combat.

 

The combat system I imagine is one where the saber is fluid and organic not mechanical. The saber once swung can be manipulated in almost unlimited fashion with movement of the mouse. This will allow for an unaccountable number of types of attacks and widens the scope of saber combat greatly. To complement this huge core change would be a manual blocking system. The system would be fully manual yielding no auto blocking. Creating effective saber combats with this system could definitely be difficult, one method of ocercoming boundaries set by this design is possibly having a jedi sense level where faint indicators project the region in which a saber will pass moments before it does to help allow the player to react to another individual’s saber.

 

PARRYING

This can be done quite well with the above system, as long as it works around momentum. Saber battling should often have one party who is mainly attacking while the other is defending and numerous switchs in roles. Only a few times should you have individuals both attacking and in essence defending.

 

SKILL

This system while complex and not NOOB friendly, will yield to greater pleasure and appreciation of a skillful game and experience in the end. A noob will stand out like a neon sign in the combat system, they would easily be overpowered by a skilled duelist (refer to THE SABER).

 

My opinion this would not really work in sp (an idea like this came up in an earlier thread using this feature in Die by the Sword.)

The parrying system you mentioned i agree with i'm more of a mix of the phantom menace (the game) ROTJ and Jedi outcast style of battles

 

What i liked best in the 3 games i mentioned

 

Phantom menace: The blocking System

ROTJ: attack and defending at the same time (like fencing)

Jedi Outcast: The Stance System

 

I not really bothering to fit all of the thread in so i put a bit in so here is the rest of my opinions:-

 

Movement

 

A good feature to use in SP but when comes to MP Bots would be usless to this feature this is more of a human player only feature to exploit its full potential

 

The force

 

Im fine with this idea. An extra feature to add on to it is the addition of a force mana Bar e.g

 

Level 1: Mana level at normal but takes 60 seconds to regenerate

the force mana

 

Level 2: Mana level Increased by 20% regeneration takes 45 seconds to get back to full

 

Level 3 Mana increased to 50% of level 1 Regen takes 30 seconds to get to full power

 

Saber Damage should be like a gun hit the head and instant kill happens and different parts of bodies do different damage like legs would only do a fraction of what a hit in the chest would do

 

The Quake 3 Engine yes may be getting old but improvements are always coming up to make it better doom 3 graphics may be the future but quake 3's is Good enough to use maybe in the sequels sequel we may be seeing it in doom 3 format

 

you missed out AI yes the ai from games has increased dramatically from the creatures in pacman chasing you to games like B&W where the ai is revelutionary to say the least a significant ai improvement would get a longer lasting game and make it more complex and unpredictable (in JO it was easy to guess what move they would do the sequel/expansion could change all that through more complex scripting)

 

These are my opinions thank you for reading this

[Krelia]

ok a raven rep stated jedi outcast was a button masher game. obviously if you are suggesting more combos to be put into the game you don't understand what a button masher is.

 

a button masher is like tekken 4. there are so many combos in the game any skilless player can randomly hit buttons to pull off a combo and beat a skilled player who knows what they are doing with blind luck. adding more combos will not fix your problem.

 

force powers should be left alone and players have to fix that with a mod. what works for saberists obviously will not work for gunners.

 

GIVE US BACK OUR CONCUSSION RIFLE.

 

guns should be more like q3 with force powers, balance the guns out. and for god's sake put the conc rifle back in. how could you remove the coolest gun of both the first and second games.

 

how could you make guns so weak without giving ANY force powers to compensate. push/pull are a joke, rage makes you run out of ammo faster. lightning is too slow and too negligable for damage as it has always been. where is the all-balancing destruct? its ok, ff guns players can fix raven's screwup with a mod unless they want to be all-kind and benevolant, making 2 sets of force powers, balancing each one for each type of gameplay instead of sloppily throwing a game together to meet a marketing deadline. hopes for buying jk3/q4 dwindling to nothingness with raven's involvement.

[P4ulo]

I agree with Krelia

[happydan]

IMO, the last game shouldnt have even been on the Q3 engine. its old and clunky, and limits the feel of movement. the game can be enough of a succes to warrant using a newer engine such as Uengine. hell, if they announced it would be on D3 engine, id be happy to wait.

[BallisticWookiee]

Moving away from gameplay aspects, which is important in itself, I would like alot of focus on the story involved in the game. No more Imperial Remnant, this game should and hopefully will take place sometime between the "truce" of the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant and also a few months, perhaps a year into the invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong. I feel the Imperials being the bad guys in the universe has been well and truly overdone, and they need a new direction. The war against the Yuuzhan Vong would give a breath of new life into the series, and the player could perhaps work along side other Jedi or Rogue/Wraith Squadron, the Imperials or even the Chiss to try and destroy the Vong enemy he/she comes up against.

 

Along with the setting, there should be all the political turmoil, decension, backstabbing and traitorous actions among members of the senate, aswell as the division among the rank of the Jedi and their role in this new and dangerous problem facing them. The player should have to protect themselves aswell as others with them from the the Vong and their Peace Brigade collaboraters and bounty hunters/mercanaries looking to cash in on the Vong demands regarding the Jedi. They should also have the added mission goals of being charged by Luke Skywalker to hunt out the "moles" and traitors among the New Republic.

 

I hope I didnt ruin anything for those not this far into the EU, but I really do hope that LucasArts start using elements freely available to them in the EU, and use them to make a game truly brilliant, perhaps along the lines of Deus Ex/Jedi Outcast/X Wing Alliance...ie; a roleplaying, character building element with multiple story endings, all the action and excitement of JO mixed with Space Combat fighting Coral Skippers and other Vong ships. This is my hope for the next game in this outstanding series.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

A good choice would be a game based on Quake 4 once its finished, since Quake 4 is likely to have the same movement feel that we gunners all love

 

However the way to stop people spamming is simple, stop spamming being beneficial. With guns this is already accomplished, since you'll run out of ammo or be dead before spam shots ever hit anyone. But with force, its down to removing rage and push, and altering pull to its JK equivalent (IMO)

[BallisticWookiee]

You're forgetting one important thing....the Quake 4 engine is based on the Doom 3 engine . I think as far as graphics go, the Unreal 2 engine would be a far better choice. Larger outdoor environments, larger amount of AI/BOTS on the screen at one time, and the particle effects and lighting effects that the Unreal engine is capable of are incredible, perhaps not as good as Doom 3, but they are still very impressive. And when it comes to playability, frames per second, and graphics, I think the all round better choice would be for the Unreal tech as opposed to the Doom 3/Quake 4 tech. Thats my opinion anyway...

[Guest Jolts]

I want to see updated rendering engine with pixel/vertex shading, rag doll physics, a few jawa tossings also.

[Smood]

Many people had concerns about my saber system not working in other game types, but I would beg differ. To allow it to work in CTF or FFA, there are 2 solutions I see...

 

Solution 1: Just employ the system, the reason this system will work is manual blocking. You will almost always have skill differences and thus kills are often quick in this type of system, especially for damage.

 

Solution 2: Have a slightly altered partially/full auto block system for all other gametypes. This would leave dueling a gametype for SERIOUS duelists.

 

NOTE* the movement changes I suggested would not hinder gunners, it would just make the humanoid motion much more realistic.

 

ANOTHER BIG CHANGE would be jumping during duels. I truly feel this should be limited. I constantly see duels with jedi jumping up and down for no reason. If this were limited to one strong jump (force) and then a complete drain of force for a while we would get a quite enriched dueling and fighting feel to the game.

[Krelia]

Originally posted by Smood

NOTE* the movement changes I suggested would not hinder gunners, it would just make the humanoid motion much more realistic.

 

the whole reason i play games like q3 and jk2 are for the unrealistic and extremely fast paced movement. if i want realism i'll play battlefield 1942 24/7. its a fun game but i only break it out once every two weeks or so because the movement is so boring.

[DeTRiTiC-iQ]

Originally posted by BallisticWookiee

You're forgetting one important thing....the Quake 4 engine is based on the Doom 3 engine . I think as far as graphics go, the Unreal 2 engine would be a far better choice. Larger outdoor environments, larger amount of AI/BOTS on the screen at one time, and the particle effects and lighting effects that the Unreal engine is capable of are incredible, perhaps not as good as Doom 3, but they are still very impressive. And when it comes to playability, frames per second, and graphics, I think the all round better choice would be for the Unreal tech as opposed to the Doom 3/Quake 4 tech. Thats my opinion anyway...

 

I'm not forgetting one important thing. I'm remembering that Doom 3 is designed to be quite slow, i've played the leaked alpha, whereas Quake 4 will be designed with fast pace in mind. It will be a lot easier for a developer to make a fast paced game based on Quake 4 rather than Doom 3.

[mrsparkle]

I would like to see more vehicle/weapons options, especially for the single player game.

 

The level where you took control of the ATST was nice, but that's about it as far as I remember. How about speeder bikes? Tauntauns on an ice planet? That sandspeeder thing from the first movie? Jabba's barge with that nice blaster on the upper deck? (maybe a 2-person vehicle?)

 

How about some 'space pilot' missions ala the first Star Wars movie? (land missions followed by a space battle)? I recall spaceship battles being a large part of the Star Wars movies (the good ones, the first 3 minus ewoks, not this new crap). There were land missions to complete, then a large space battle to fight.

 

I'm sure this could work in multiplayer. I wouldn't mind at all a multiplayer space battle map all about piloting. Cuz you know, after a while this game get stale with the same few maps, weapons, and game types.

 

EDIT: question is, is there a game engine that can do all that?

[Reborn Outcast]

Yea I would like to see vehicle and aircraft like in Halo. Also they need to scrap Kyle and make someone new and have the timeframe set in the Vong invasion. One more thing is, while using force powers lik,e lightning you should be able to use it with one hand and shoot with the other at the same time. Everything else I think is fine.

[Luc Solar]

Originally posted by BallisticWookiee

...this game should and hopefully will take place sometime between the "truce" of the New Republic and the Imperial Remnant and also a few months, perhaps a year into the invasion of the Yuuzhan Vong. I feel the Imperials being the bad guys in the universe has been well and truly overdone, and they need a new direction. The war against the Yuuzhan Vong would give a breath of new life into the series, and the player could perhaps work along side other Jedi or Rogue/Wraith Squadron, the Imperials or even the Chiss to try and destroy the Vong enemy he/she comes up against.

 

Don't want to spoil your big plans, but...taking out the stormtroopers and other good ol' Star Wars stuff would mean that it is no longer Star Wars.

 

I bet 90% of the people who bought this game and might be buying the next one, have never even heard of Yuuzhan Vong.

 

I heard about them on these forums for the first time. Aren't those guys immune to force powers? Wouldn't that be kinda boring..? Getting all these awesome force powers and then realize that they don't work on anyone?

 

But seriously - taking out the stuff that we recognize from the movies would be like taking out Force and Sabers. They're the only reason why people are playing this game.

Untill they succeed in making Vuu..Yuuhz...whatever...as widely known as Darth Vader and Luke are, there is really no point in creating a game about them.

 

...well not if they plan on people buying it, that is.

[Spider AL]

Honestly, having read some of the opinions in this thread, I seriously doubt that there will ever be an FPS based on Star Wars that is anything more than mildly popular. Too much expectation, frankly.

 

Why? Because what Star Wars fanboys want from a game almost never tallies with what dedicated gamers want from a game.

 

Let me clarify: There are two types of people who play JO, and JK before it. (Excluding your basic weekend player, in search of fun.)

 

1. Gamers. People who want to play the game, because they find playing the game fun. They want to win, because they find winning fun. They care about score, because it's a gauge of whether or not they've won. These people tend to have more skill, because they play all the time. ALL the time.

 

2. Fanboys. These individuals want to play the game because they're fans of Star Wars. In the days of DF2, these people inevitably ended up on the Zone running a three-person "Drazen RPG" where they spent literally hours pretending to be a REAL Jedi, a smuggler, a waiter, or something even more tedious. Or they started an Oasis NF server in which they forbade anyone to use any guns at all.

 

Now I don't particularly like such individuals, in that I don't like playing with them, they tend to whine if anyone wants to actually play the game. (For score) And some of them pretend to be waiters.

 

But in the days of JK, I didn't have to play with them, they were happy in their utterly pointless Drazen RPG game, and I was happy in my game of BGJ FF or Oasis NF.

 

JO is a dedicated server game however, which means we have to play together on the same servers.

 

And those forces which were never meant to be mixed, were mixed.

 

So what happens? Fanboys get angry. Why? Weeeell when fanboys play a game about Jedi they want to be REAL Jedi. REEEAL Jedi. REAL Jedi don't get shot when they wave their sabres about aimlessly. REAL Jedi don't get blown up because they didn't notice the wodge of trip-mines in front of them. A REAL Jedi doesn't get reduced to powder by a Tenloss while they're duelling with another REAL Jedi.

 

Now since fanboys don't practice AT ALL, these things inevitably happen to them. This snaps them out of their fantasy. They suddenly remember that they're not, in fact, a REAL Jedi.

 

And this annoys them. It annoys them like being woken up during a really good dream about ice-cream annoys you or I.

 

Now, the big difference between the fanboy and the gamer, is the volume of whine they're capable of producing. Your average fanboy can produce an astronomical volume of whine per-day. And they never EVER stop.

 

That's what happened to JO when 1.03 came out. Raven was literally swamped in pure whine for two months, and then they released an ill-conceived patch designed to pander to the fanboys in the community. It was grossly imbalanced from a gameplay perspective of course, because gameplay is irrelevant in the mind of the fanboy.

 

From this we can infer the universal rule of Fanboyitis: What is good for the gamer is not good for the fanboy, and vice-versa.

 

Now, on to Smood's points:

 

***

 

The Good:

 

Originally posted by Smood:

it would be ideal to make forces much stronger, but have them all proportionally cost much more force.

 

In my opinion, this is the only decent, and certainly the only workable suggestion you made. I'd add increased individual force-timers in addition to the all-purpose mana-well though. If you use push, it should take a certain amount of time before you can use it again. This would make combos more desirable, and would cut down on individual power-spamming

 

***

 

The Bad:

 

Originally posted by Smood:

Now, I'am not trying to brag but I really feel my suggestions are key points that can make a great game into an unbelievable game.

 

 

Originally posted by Smood:

The combat system I imagine is one where the saber is fluid and organic not mechanical. The saber once swung can be manipulated in almost unlimited fashion with movement of the mouse. This will allow for an unaccountable number of types of attacks and widens the scope of saber combat greatly.

 

And widens the scope of lag, greatly. Nice idea, but honestly, be realistic. This is a big game, with lots of people wandering around waving their sabres simultaneously.

 

Originally posted by Smood:

Saber battling should often have one party who is mainly attacking while the other is defending and numerous switchs in roles. Only a few times should you have individuals both attacking and in essence defending.

 

You're describing a beat-em-up game here. Sounds awful, slow, unwieldy and tedious. DF, JK and JO were all great fast-paced FPS games. I say, go onward in that tradition.

 

Originally posted by Smood:

To follow the movies more closely, and to make battling more exciting movement in jediknight needs a large revamp. Instead of being quite fps like, it should be more delicate, and intricate.

 

It's an FPS. It's an FPS. I realise this will not make ANY impact at all, but I have to say it: It's a particular style of game. Change that style, and you have a different type of game. Petition LEC to make a Jedi-based beat-em-up if you wish... But leave the sanctity of the only decent Star-Wars-based FPS series alone.

 

Originally posted by Smood:

Swinging the saber through any part of body should yield instant decapitation and death of the player,

 

So, you hit someone in the foot, and their head falls off.

 

 

I think this is a terrible, nay, abysmal idea. I would recommend in its place, a system whereby if the sabre contacts the neck or head of the model, the head is severed. If the sabre contacts the thigh of the model, the leg falls off. An area-based damage system is long overdue.

 

Originally posted by Smood:

During saber combat individuals are able to move left and right in a very short time, this leads to a cheap fps game/feel not suitable for a type of combat game like jedi outcast. Instead by the same change as above, making the stepping fluid and organic (have movement slower, and better blended) would bring a much greater feel of true saber battling, and movie/real life movement. One key here is making movement slower relative to the world and relative to other individuals.

 

And:

 

Originally posted by Smood:

ANOTHER BIG CHANGE would be jumping during duels. I truly feel this should be limited. I constantly see duels with jedi jumping up and down for no reason. If this were limited to one strong jump (force) and then a complete drain of force for a while we would get a quite enriched dueling and fighting feel to the game.

 

So you want movement to be restricted, you want the game slowed down and you want one-hit-kills.

 

You DO want them to turn it into a beat-em-up. It's an FPS. Live with it.

 

If lateral motion of your opponent, or even aimless jumping, confuses you... let me refer you to Phayyde's master-work, the "Book of Honor" particularly rule number 1, rule no. 8 and rule no. 11.

 

Why do people try to alter the DF series to be the game they want? Can't they petition LEC for a game of the type they like? Can't they make a mod? No, is the answer... why, escapes me.

 

***

 

The Ugly Truth:

 

Any gamer will of course tell you that skill is skill. There will always be people willing to put the time in to learn the easiest ways to win a game. No amount of changes will alter that.

 

You can never stop spam completely. Nobody ever has.

 

You can never create a totally balanced game, nobody ever has, not even Chess is totally balanced.

 

You can never plug enough loopholes to stop those who exploit them. They will ALWAYS find a way through.

 

Now that this has been said, the truth is surely clear- A game should be designed to be exciting, fun and interesting... Let the dynamic and the balance take care of itself. Games with good balance succeed, games with bad balance fail. Let a dead game die, and let those who enjoy a game continue to enjoy it. Changing the core of a game after it's been released, after it's found its fans... is always BAD.

 

PS: Luc's right btw, EU is a terrible idea.

[BallisticWookiee]

Originally posted by DeTRiTiC-iQ

I'm not forgetting one important thing. I'm remembering that Doom 3 is designed to be quite slow, i've played the leaked alpha, whereas Quake 4 will be designed with fast pace in mind. It will be a lot easier for a developer to make a fast paced game based on Quake 4 rather than Doom 3.

 

Ummmm, I've played the leaked Alpha aswell, so what ? Quake 4 uses the Doom 3 engine, no matter what they do, your going to get the same gameplay that is offered in Doom 3. Doom 3 will be more heavily optimised than the leak was and run a great deal better, but it will still be a slower paced game. Add to the fact you will need atleast the latest and greatest hardware to be even PLAY Quake 4 and Doom 3. I'm hoping Lucasrts dont go down the track of better graphics while sacrificing a large fan base and limiting the games users to those with the hardware to use it. It wouldnt be practical, and the engine is hardly a wise choice as far as the quick gameplay seen in the Jedi Knight series. The Unreal engine seems like a much better choice, adding bump mapping, particle effects, dynamic lighting and the karma technology for realistic death animations.

 

As far as the story goes, if this is once again Kyle Katarn fighting of the hordes of dumb Stormtroopers from the Imperial Remnant than Lucasarts are flogging are very dead and stiff horse. So far all the games featuring Kyle have been centering him around some new and evil threat from the Remnant, and I'm sure I'm not the only one out there who feels it's been well and truly overdone. I'm sick of chopping down dumb Stormtroopers minute after minute, like it's supposed to be exciting. It's been done over and over again....why keep it going ? This series needs innovation, a wider scope, more indepth gameplay and character advancement. FPS's are great, but repetative ones arent. Sure if this new title is an add-on, then why not. But if it's an entirely new story, why not something new ? Casual gamer or not, Lucasarts make these games to further the Star Wars universe and give Star Wars fans like myself the opportunity to play the role of a Jedi in the SW universe. If they are not making the games so we can do this and enjoy an ongoing series in SW universe, then why in the world do they even bother ?

 

PS: Luc's right btw, EU is a terrible idea.

 

JO was set in the EU, so what exactly are you saying ?

[happydan]

i think a prequel is in order, centering around a child padwan as he/she grows. i dont really mind what era, but it would be cool to have an episode for every 5 years or something, all intertwined stories leading to a climax where they are finally a knight

[JDKnite188]

JK was set in the EU. Np there.

 

There shouldn't be an expansion pack. There should just be a worth while JKIII. MotS was an expansion with multiplayer enhancements, new game code elements (cameras, etc.), and player story, but the game was mediocre. Just an expansion.

 

I also thought of the fluid-saber-mouse thing. Good but slow, laggy (MP), and probably hard to learn. It would be awesome if it could be worked out somehow.

 

Leave the series as an FPS. Yeah, people buy it for the saber, but even Star Wars is not centered around the stupid saber. And the weapons beside the E-11 should be revamped in the sequel/expansion. They were all mundane. I noticed that the E-11 and Return to Castle Wolfenstein's FG42 are practically the same gun model.

 

Get rid of the classic Star Wars locales. Nar Shaada and the Valley of the Jedi were the greatest locales in JK. Sulon and Barons Hed gave a kind of comfy feel to them despite the ubiquitous tension. The cargo ship, duels, and Imperial tower were reminders of the Star Wars legacy BUT NOT YOUR STANDARD IMPERIAL BASE LEVELS.

 

Get rid of Kyle. He is getting old. Good guy but let him rest.

 

Placing a story during the trilogy would be awesome. Or they could even make a story of the background of JK. I wouldn't mind seeing 8t88, the Dark Gang, Rahn, and the other ole' dudes again. The EU is somewhat unbound and a Yuuzhan Vong thing would be just lilke replacing the Imperials with them. Now we can slaughter hordes of another force.

 

Why don't we become the Merchant? Bounty Hunter? Runaway political figure. We don't need to be Jedi, but we can encounter them.

[happydan]

wouldnt that counter the "jedi" knight thing?

my idea is better, i win, case closed.