munik Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 The Romans made an empire by taking the land of others. Do Italians now owe a debt to all those who lost land to the Romans? Does that make any sense? I live in an town largely inhabited by Italian immigrants, some right off the boat. Our town is located adjacent to another town that has a large refugee population from Vietnam and Bosnia. When these people came to the States, never was it conveyed to them that they owe indians anything because indians used to own this land. It is old history, many generations old. Yes, it sucks for them. I don't lose any sleep over it though. If they really wanted the land so bad, they would have fought to keep it. If they want it so bad now, they can fight to get it back. Here in central NY, I can tell you this for sure. Not one soul who now resides on land that the Oneida indians claim as theirs will give it back. Even if the state approved the land claim, and instead of money the state actually gave the land to the Oneidas, it would be a cold day in hell before anyone left their property. The point being that the people who now own the land want it much more then the people who gave it up in the first place. It's gonna take alot more then some guys with rifles and horses to get it back now, and if they want to buy it it's gonna have to be a much better trade then a bag of sugar and a pint of whiskey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Weapon X Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 wow, crado, you've gotten yourself into some ****, and i'm here to get you in DEEPER. i live on the Wind River Indian Reservation, which is pretty much in the middle of wyoming, i'm not Native American, why do i live here? my dad is the principal of the Wyoming Indian High School, and i've lived here 15 yrs of my life, seems irrelevant right now, but, out here i've never heard of the NATIVE AMERICANS (not american indians u racist.......) getting free cars OR houses for that matter, and the per cap check out here (not all them claim it either) is like $60, my friends get one every month, EVERY native american is supposed to get one and it just averages the money that THEIR oil fields make to the entire population of people who have a certain amount of indian blood in them (1/16 or somethin like that) now, you say stuff like "indians get free this, free that, and now their boycotting" the rez i live on has no state maintinence, it even has signs saying exactly: "End State Maintinence" which means, they don't always get the regular road work done in cities and non-reservation parts of the state, the roads are ****ty and not well done like other highways, and i agree that most houses out here have lots of trash and broken down cars but that does not give anyone the right to generalize all native americans as slobs and drunks, i know some hard working people out here, all of my dad's co-workers, my friends (sometimes) and many others, and now these people have to deal with a White Suppremicist (sp?) Group, they have a hard time cuz their sports teams get criticized, made fun of, and singled out all the time. the racism you have shown is sickening, you're low, you have to report something that happened and the reprocussions, and then try to say "why do they do this when they're all rich and get so much free stuff?" the per cap checks everyone thinks are so huge are rarely more than $100, but everyone is racist and thinks the indians are bleeding this country dry of funds and then using it on alcohol. it's sad, and sometimes i'll say something most will think is racist, but in my mind, i live with these people and am friends with so many that it is impossible for me to be racist, or else i'd be dead by now. i even say stuff like "goddamned native" "shut the .... up and drink your fire water" and stuff like that, they dont' care much but that's cuz i've earned their trust and respect, the rest of you most likely haven't, so watch what you say, or else you might say something wrong and get killed some night by the "chays" that you don't like much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dagobahn Eagle Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 Wow, a good deal of people here have issues. Look at the Sami, getting their own parliament, road signs in Lappland printed in their own language, and school education in Sami, and also benefitting from the same Welfare System as every Scandinavian does. The USA should do as much for the native Americans, shouldn't they? After all, it's their country. What disturbs me is how the politicians can do all they did for the Israelis in Palestine.. but not do anything of it in their own homeland. US: "Sure, the Palestinians won't object to us giving some of their land to Israel." Reporter: "Interesting. We have the same thing here in the States, with native Americans. Will they get their own state, or at least some reparations or their own government or something like their own Passports or something? I mean, you should start at home when improving something, right?" US: "Uh... well.. hmm.. uhm.. yeah.. uh.." I'm all for the idea of for example a Crow passport. The Crow shouldn't be affected by the actions of the Americans (ie. if they should be allowed to travel to Cuba no matter how much the USA ticks off Castro). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted April 18, 2003 Share Posted April 18, 2003 It's not their country anymore, plain and simple. I'm not saying we shouldnt respect them just like we might respect any culture in the US. But they couldnt hold onto their land. Cold and cruel though it may sound, that's just how it was back then. Like that now, too... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
munik Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by Dagobahn Eagle (ie. if they should be allowed to travel to Cuba no matter how much the USA ticks off Castro). Cutting off the reservations would destroy them. Indians can claim sovereignty all they want, but if they were to be cut off from the States they would wither away. They have no means to support their nation. What you are saying is that they should live here and reap the benefits, but get different passports? Do you think that would really work? The U.S. is the only country that actually plays the sovereignty game with the indians. That's because they really aren't a sovereign nation. So what good is that passport gonna do when they visit another country? Do you think a passport that says I'm from Munikland would be valid? So what good is a passport from a nation that no other country in the world recognizes? They can go to Cuba. Any citizen from the States can go to Cuba. You just can't go there from the States. Has nothing to do with Castro being pissed, and more to do with embargos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 It's not their country anymore, plain and simple. I'm not saying we shouldnt respect them just like we might respect any culture in the US. But they couldnt hold onto their land. Cold and cruel though it may sound, that's just how it was back then. Like that now, too... That point is important to remember when adressing the Israel-Palestine situation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Indeed it is. But believe it or not, the Zionists who first went back to Palestine initially intended to get the land by buying it, legitimatley. Not by whining about lands lost a thousand years ago (the whining started later). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 Not by whining about lands lost a thousand years ago (the whining started later). I thought they got the land from the Brits? Only one more post before the magical 1000 mark, Shock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShockV1.89 Posted April 19, 2003 Share Posted April 19, 2003 1000!!!!!! :D The Brits helped them, mostly because the Zionist movement originated, mostly, in Europe, and so they had better relations. As a result, they were able to negotiate a better deal with Lord Peel (commissioner sent from Britain to clean everything up). Honestly, Palestinians did sort of get screwed here... Later, the Brits sort of got caught in the middle, both Palestine and Israel starting attacking them, and they ran away. The US is the real reason that Palestine was so inept, though... (drove their leader into exile, Cold War fever). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KaBuTaR Posted April 24, 2003 Share Posted April 24, 2003 Originally posted by ShockV1.89 It's not their country anymore, plain and simple. I'm not saying we shouldnt respect them just like we might respect any culture in the US. But they couldnt hold onto their land. Cold and cruel though it may sound, that's just how it was back then. Like that now, too... Yes, but what was the reason they lost their country? They were holding on to it perfectly fine for long enough. Then - BOOM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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