The Walking Contradictions

[Feral]

My comment had nothing to do with my dislike of you, Al. I was merely stating that I agree with Mercat and that your argument was incredibly weak. Believe it or not, not everything I say on this foum revolves around you.

[Joshi]

Hmm, just wandering, GB122 started this topic, how many times has he posted on it since. lets see... 0, want a recount, okay, 0. this was a topic started to simply say that these people he was talking about are retards which, throwing everything aside, they quite clearly are.

 

so tell me how it suddenly turned into a political debate with the "manditory", as the case may be, flaming and insulting. i really think that after this turned into politics rather than what it started out to be (and admittedly, i did contribute to this) GB didn't want anything to do with it and probably wishes he never started it as it is causing rifts between the people here. also, mercatfat, i don't think any of your posts about loving/hating america have even reached GB let alone gotten through to him so really this is just an argument between you and al but now involving feral and k-jo slightly heavily.

 

and finally, Mercat and feral, how can you justify stereotyping an enitre country (brazil) quite cruely just to insult a single member of there population, if you have something against Al, then direct you insults to him and not the people of Brazil which i think you quite wrongly did.

[scabb]

Originally posted by Kjølen

Unaware or uninformed, lacking knowledge.

Otherwords naive, or in cruel terms stupid.

 

Okay, Perhaps I wasn't clear enough, which would explain why you decided to answer a rhetorical question:

 

Originally posted by Kjølen

Ignorent to hate America? In my opinion, no offense ment, but that phrase was a bit ignorent. So your saying that someone in Iraq, that was always taught that America is all snotty and selfish, how are they suppose to know anything else?

 

So, you're saying that, say a misinformed Iraqi who doesn't know any better than to hate America is not ignorant? Perhaps you should think things through before you click the "submit" button to garner more precious points and posts.

 

And Al, I would love to see a 1000 page essay comparing the benefits and drawbacks of all countries that have had the pleasure of being occupied by yourself, although I'm sure it would be painfully difficult to read thanks to your unique brand of English.

 

To conclude this sorry argument, the fact is that America is a nice place to live. Basic freedoms exist, there are plenty of amenities, and the people who live there are generally happy. The same goes for other places, such as France, the UK, Spain, Greece.. take your pick. Different places suit different people. A fan of Japanese animation and dominatrix Barbie dolls may enjoy living in Japan. Someone who enjoys large hamburgers and professional baseball will enjoy America. People wanting poverty, cramped situations, and only plan on having one child may consider China as there ideal country.

[Guybrush122]

To all who defended me -- thanks. I'm glad you understand I have the ****ing right to voice my opinion.

 

But I never said I was protesting. There's nothing I can do about this piece of ****, lying country. Technically, me wearing that shirt is against the law...it's called treason. But, it isn't all that well inforced (thank god). My point was this --- you're not for freedom of speach or for freedom at all if you threaten to beat the **** out of me because I voice my opinion.

 

Wearing a "**** America" shirt is no different than wearing a "God Bless America" shirt. Think about that one. I understand if you have an opinion thats pro-American--I dont care. I'm not gonna bother you. So why the hell bother me?

 

 

I'm not getting into why I hate this country...and I'm well aware I'd be worse off in Etheopia, China, or Iraq...but I'd be much better off in, let's say, Holland?

 

Even so, every place sucks. I'm just saying that my place of residence does too. And I'm not being a flamboyant martyr. And I believe a martyr is the wrong word. ---I'm well aware that my T-Shirt would offend and piss the **** out of. But it doesn't matter, does it? The point is, these guys are Nazi scum...why? Because they wanna kill me for my belief. Like Stalin, like Mousillini, like Hitler. Nazis. Plain and simple.

 

 

The bottom point I was trying to make? Think about it next time you're going to do something stupid like beat the hell out of some kid or person because he or she believes in something you don't...it makes you no better than another worthless, controlled drone produced by fascist society.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

As a last shout out to K-Jo --- youre right. The last thing I wanted was a political debate. The topic is kind of petty with worthless and pointless insults here and there. It's such crap, all this debate over my maturity to wear a f*cking shirt that says f*ck America. Get over yourselves, everyone. Accept the fact that I can and do believe that my country is sh*t.

 

As I said. I don't want a political debate, I just wanted to show everyone how low people can get and how you should never let yourself go so low...because you'll be no better than the walking contradictions. If you're going to talk about politics...don't throw insults around like that *cough* mercatfat *cough*

[Joshi]

okay, what confused you, the avatar, or the sig picture, never mind.

 

i think GB has a point, these people are 'opressing' him because of his beliefs. i think maybe 'Nazi' is a slightly strong word as a nazi although it is more commonly used to identify facists these days, but it's still a bit strong as you may as well call all 'bullies' facists as more of them beat up others because they're different which is basically racism (another strong word and sometimes loosely strung about without thought). i think that there are many different veiws on this matter and as a man who is willing to open up to these different views, i think many people will agree that although against the law, guybrush has a right to wear this t-shirt in protest however much prfanity is there or however much treason this embarks. yes, people won't listen to his veiw because he's too young (which i belive is ageism(sp?)) but he may not be protesting to the government, he may not even be protesting, he may just want to voice his opinion, make people aware what he belives.

 

but then there are those who belive that wearing that t-shirt is asking for trouble which me may not have been doing intentionaly, but common sense should have told him not to. i think you had a right to dot hat, but that doesn't mean you had to.

 

so in conclusion, those guys are jerks!

[Al-back from the BigWhoop]

Originally posted by The Feral Chicken

not everything I say on this foum revolves around you.

i wish

Originally posted by The Feral Chicken

Oh, and the way you insulted Al, Mercat? Sheer genius . Sure as heckfire brought a smile to my face.

 

 

 

anyways, its clear that u still have unfinished issues with me, and as i pmed u last time, i would like to keep this in pm (as u suggested yourself)

 

 

 

 

 

btw, mercatfat, are u saying u hate me? are u insane? i ddnt offend, nor i ve been obnoxius (like u) the worse ive done is a couple of abreviations, typos and mispelled words (well, sorry, english isnt my native language). im trying to have a polemic discussion here, each one shares our points. tahts how its supposed to work, if u cant separete points of view from character, then u should stop posting, take a deep breath, i dunno.

 

ive read the article and it is quite intersesting, except in this one point:

if the US wanted its oil companies to have access to the Iraqi market, it could have simply pressed the United Nations to drop sanctions against Iraq.

as we all see, us pressure doesnt always work. bsides, its not just the oil...

 

 

just a lil side note, i got a joke throw email quite funny:

"u know when the world is screwed up when bush asks the world to listen to god, saddam asks the world to listen to alla, and the pope asks the world to listen to the UN."

LOL

[scabb]

It's a rather narrow minded view to hate America because of a few individuals who enjoy beating people up. Encouraging this by wearing expletive-riddled T-shirts is also incredibly stupid, you shouldn't be whoring yourself out for attention if you want to remain unbeaten. Not to mention the fact that every country has people like these, and you should be grateful that you're not starving to death. Mercatfat has already stated those points, but you obviously didn't get the message.

 

In conclusion, bleach makes coffee taste supar.

[Al-back from the BigWhoop]

u sound like guybrush is wrong on wearing that shirt. as i said, its in his right, he just have to see the pros and cons. if there are more pros or more cons im concluding its a matter of opinion.

[DinghyDog]

You do have to weigh it. I mean, there are other ways of protesting that won't get you smashed into a gooey pulp of carbon, oxygen and nitrogen. Seriously. That T-Shirt left you open for obvious torment.

 

But it's your choice. You just can't trust the human race to stand back and let you have your fun. We're too dumb for that, as has been proven many times before.

 

Oh, and interesting fact of the day: I do believe there is precedent for being able to make political statements in clothing, even if it's a hat and your school doesn't allow hats. I think.

 

But it didn't have to be profane. And neither did your post.

 

-DD

[mercatfat]

Just a little English lesson: using "fuck" in a serious argument almost always means you lose by default. In fact, using it at all, even to express anger, shows more illiteracy than anger. In casual conversation, it's okay, don't get me wrong. But since you're obviously just using it in a fit of flying rage or, in the shirt's case, to get attention, it discredits you. You lose. I'm suprised they didn't send you home immediately for wearing it.

 

To rephrase: Casually, go ahead. In a serious setting or around people that don't all know you, don't even think about using it unless you want to be a target of negativity. It's the golden rule of swearing, but it applies to the f more than any other curse.

[Frenchyd]

*large sigh*

 

First things first: Sorry if I repeat an argument that has already been made. I skipped through some of the posts because of the sheer amounts of "u" and "r" and other such internet 'lingo' that I find annoying and impossible to read, not to mention the excessive profanity used, which was nauseating.

 

Okay, moving along...

 

I am utterly SICK AND BLOODY TIRED of all these anti-war GOONS. I am not pro-war. Who really is pro-war, unless you're a pathetic sadist who gets his 'jollies' off people dying in mass amounts... Anyways, most of these anti-war people are misinformed, unintelligent people who have nothing but FEELINGS to back themselves up. Not all, but most.

 

Actually, I have nothing wrong with anti-war people, in fact I attended a PHENOMENAL lecture by Gwyn Dyre, an anti-war journalist, and I was impressed, and it was insightful, and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

 

But that's not the point I wanted to make.

 

Protesting is

a) going to accomplish nothing in the end. Do these people honestly think that Bush cares about a few goons parading around with signs? Hardly. In addition, these people make it difficult for me to suppress my agitation with their chanting.

b) accomplished better by using your... yes, folks, BRAIN! Writing INTELLIGENT letters, making speeches, gets (better) results than a pathetic "Oooh! Think of the Iraqi People!" whiney chant. Please.

 

Furthermore, if you care about your cause so much, you'll accept the consequences. Yes. Americans are prideful, and they will defend their countries pride. It happens. If you aren't willing to accept it, you don't care enough. Look at Gandhi. He cared enough. He would have DIED for his cause. I don't suggest you go kill yourself (yet) but I believe that you should know and understand what you're up against.

 

And GB122: How is America being a "piece of ****, lying country."? This confuses me.

 

One last point, I promise, all you who have been dissed by merfatcat need to settle down and realize he has a point. He's not drawing these things out of thin air like your pathetic insults.

 

Tata,

[Joshi]

Originally posted by Frenchyd

Actually, I have nothing wrong with anti-war people, in fact I attended a PHENOMENAL lecture by Gwyn Dyre, an anti-war journalist, and I was impressed, and it was insightful, and I enjoyed it thoroughly.

 

This ladies and gentlemen, is the smart way to go about things. Frency here was obviously affected by this Gwyn Dyre's speech and I’m guessing a lot of other people were also and this seems to be the right way to get your message across. in my ignorance of the actual speech I can only guess that this man got all of his thoughts together, organised them and projected a speech that made people want to listen and learn and I wouldn't be surprised if he was a professor. I don't think he wore a t- shirt stating "**** the USA -- No War!” he had a more effective way of expressing himself.

 

Furthermore, I think Frenchy's reference to Gandhi was well overdue in this topic as I think simply his name says it all, his ideas were a bit extreme, but they were thought out and made a difference. I can respect that the whole arm band things is basically out of respect more than anything, but I think the t-shirt was a bit overdone no matter how much you care about this. As DinghyDog said and as I had said very early in this topic, you need to weigh out the pros against the cons and see if this is really worth it. More than just being beaten up, you could have been expelled from school. so you have to ask yourself, is something that isn't going to make much of a difference other than making people notice me really worth me getting beaten up and thrown out of school?

 

finally, I have not had the 'pleasure' of being 'insulted' by mercatfat as I don't think I have given him reason to which shows that he chooses his fights fairly and only says bad things to people he thinks deserve it, but I am still waiting on an answer to this question I asked a couple of posts ago.

 

Originally posted by Neil Joshi

and finally, Mercat and feral, how can you justify stereotyping an entire country (brazil) quite cruelly just to insult a single member of there population, if you have something against Al, then direct you insults to him and not the people of Brazil which I think you quite wrongly did.

 

I respect appreciate that you have not done this since, but I still this it is worth an explanation.

[The_true_lynk]

I'm on Al's side in this thread.

 

Feral chicken, are you on mercats side because he is a super moderator? Because that isnt a very good reason to do so, I don't see why people stick up for people with high positions, its basicly a way of 'kissing up to him' isnt it.

[Joshi]

actually feral isn't that kind of person, he just lieks to stand up for what he believes in which i admire, and plus he also had a bit of a rift with al a while ago and i think it's sparking up slightly here (subconsciencely)

[Guybrush122]

Originally posted by scabb

It's a rather narrow minded view to hate America because of a few individuals who enjoy beating people up.

 

 

 

Hahahahaha. You're funny. I don't hate America because of some moronic fascists...I hate America because of it's....

 

Lies

Incompotence

Opression

Trigger happy nature

Political parties (we all have em, but I hate em)

False democracy

Corrupt legal system

Did I mention lies?

Corrupt Capitalist system (read Das Capital by Karl Marx and then read any book on the Capitalist theory...you'll realize that the Capitalist system in America could be highly improved)

And, finally, Opression

 

 

 

Did I mention opression and lies?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Oh and, Niko, I did manage to talk to one of those guys. Just yesterday one of these kids came up to me and, instead of pushing me around (much) he talked to me. He was, of course, very agressive but told me that I had offended his entire family because he has had countless relatives "die to keep that flag standing". I tried to tell him that I understood -- I know what it's like to be offended. But instead he brushed it off, and then threatened to beat the **** out of me. After a long talk I had finally made my point clear; despite what I wear, my opinion won't change. It's alright for him to be offended, but you don't see me crying my ass off when he wears a "God Bless America" shirt to school.

 

So I walked away and headed towards the door, thinking that maybe these guys weren't all that bad -- and that maybe this guy finally got it...that I'm a human, too. As I opened the door to step outside to a sunny day --- I was spit on by one of his little friends.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I'd give those guys one day of being pushed around, spit on, and threatened before they go crying to their mom.

 

Un empathetic bastards.

[mercatfat]

Feral agrees with me because he realizes that I'm the voice of reason here. Not to toot my own horn or anything. I don't give favors and regardless, he's a mod. It just so happens we tend to view things in a similar, if mildly arrogant, light.

 

America is not a democracy. We are a republic or (arguably) a democratic republic. We elect officials to democratically represent the republic. Yes, we do have democratic voting on many things at a state and local level, but when it comes to the whole nation, it's up to the leaders.

 

I'm going to be controversial here and say I don't mind this because normal Americans aren't on the inside enough to understand how to run the whole country, thus it's best that we have leaders that know way more inside stuff than we do run things. Maybe it won't always turn out in your best intrest, especially not immediately, but the economic patterns of America seem to show that it's the best way.

 

On the oppression subject, be realistic. You don't know what oppression is. You've just been deservedly beat up a few times.

 

If the guy 'cries' because you wear a "f america" shirt, well, come on you retard. You're insulting him and the generations of his family that died making sure you have a great country to live in today. On the other hand, a "god bless america" insults.. satanists? Be realistic.

 

Don't even bring up Marx. I've done more than my fair amount of research to know that that guy is incredibly shortsighted. Socialism never works because of the will of the people. His views of perfect capatalism will never will work because they require too many specific conditions, much like his socialism. He's not even worth bothering with.

[Frenchyd]

All I'm saying is there are better ways of showing your distaste for this war than wearing a shirt that uses profanity.

 

And GB122, weren't you VERY patriotic during the 9/11 attacks? What happened to that???

[Kjølen]

"God Bless America", noble words, and hopefully not just a saying, for the sake of using the Lords name in vain. However, I thought it was concluded a while back that satanists meant that you didn't care if you went to Hell, and not really Satan worship. Thought I don't know. I don't mind Guybrush's shirt, although I agree that bringing it to a place that is bound to get you in trouble, or hurt others, well, maybe it's best to bring it elsewhere.

[Joshi]

someoen whoe doesn't care whether or not they go to hell is not a satanist, they just don't belive in god but are aware of both gods and satans existance. a satanist is someone who worshipd satan although not in so many words. they are average people not much different from church goers except instead of going to church no a sunday, they stay in and do a very small ritual and then go about there everday buisiness as would anyone else.

[Guybrush122]

Originally posted by Frenchyd

All I'm saying is there are better ways of showing your distaste for this war than wearing a shirt that uses profanity.

 

And GB122, weren't you VERY patriotic during the 9/11 attacks? What happened to that???

 

Gasp! Profanity! My goodness, no! Me saying **** shows nothing about my intelligence and, as mercat would disagree, shows no sign of me being enraged or angry. It's casual for me.

 

And I wasn't patriotic during the 9/11 attacks. I felt terribly sorry for all who had died and I believed the situation with Al Quida should have been taken care of very very differently. It was the people whom I felt bad for, It's really most of Americas fault 9/11 actually happened.

 

 

Mercatfat: I'm aware we use a democratic voting system for people to represent our "Republic". But America DOES call itself a democracy, doesn't it? So there's two on the list: Lies, and Corrupt Democracy. In this country you have every right and freedom to choose whom you want to utterly rule America and lead us into an economic depression, a pointless war, a sex scandal, a theft scandal, or have Ketchup declared a vegetable (yeah, Ronald Reagan actually did that)

 

I know the president isn't a serious dictator like Sadaam or Stalin or what have you. But its pretty (watch out! here comes the f-word!) f*cking close. Frankly I don't care if you don't like my shirt or think it's inappropriate for school or at all. I don't care if you're pro-war or prejudice enough to say that all who are anti-war are just people who are un-intelligent (which is really childish). I'm pretty sure that all of you can agree that the jerks who are giving me crap for my shirt...are a bunch of bullying, fascist, contradictions. Again, the point of this thread was to say that beating the crap out of someone for voicing their opinion isn't all that up for freedom, which is what this country's governemt is supposed to represent. F*ck, if you're gonna be an infant about it...fine. Go ahead. Accuse me of being unintelligent, unecassarily angry, unreasonable, out of line, cruel. Say what you want. Just remember this: shirt or no shirt my opinion is the same. And I'm gonna say it whenever I get the chance, just like the patriots.

 

Why? Because I, supposedly, should be able to do that without some greaseball scum telling me I can't.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

God Bless America. Why?

[Acrylic]

(Post edited due to racism and spamtacular content)

[Al-back from the BigWhoop]

Originally posted by mercatfat

Feral agrees with me because he realizes that I'm the voice of reason here.

 

ive been putting some serious thoughts, and i have decided to actually write correctly when arguing seriously. but since we are sharing suggestions, i suggest you drop the arrogant comments. its kinda funny when we know someone is just pretending to be arrogant, but then again, this is a serious discussion.

 

 

Originally posted by mercatfat

On the oppression subject, be realistic. You don't know what oppression is. You've just been deservedly beat up a few times.

 

there are other ways of oppression bsides getting beat up by a military govt.

 

 

Originally posted by mercatfat

You're insulting him and the generations of his family that died making sure you have a great country to live in today

 

some of you keep saying that... let me put it this way: how can you be so sure that generations of his family died to make sure america is a great country. and i know you are not naive enough to say "vietnam" or some crappy argument like that.

 

 

 

as for satanism, i dont see how can someone believe in hell and still not care about going there or not. but then again, i dont believe in any religion, and i see lots of people how dont understand how can i not believe in a superior force or whatever.

 

 

on a side not, there are different points of view about using "f*ck", but i can assure u those bastards annoying gb werent offended by that word in his shirt, they just had a different opinion but werent able to discuss it like human beings

 

btw, i dont think the american voting sistem is good at all, cause it doenst represent the majority of the people. thats why i like democracy better than republic. and its really stupid to think one can decide how much is worth a vote from one citizen or another.

[HelenW]

I'm not getting involved in the argument at all here, just wondering if anyone's read "stupid white men" by Michael Moore. It contains interesting facts about the voting process in America during the last election. Tells you about how basically, Bush didn't win the election, but got the presidency anyway. I found it interesting, and I'm not even american. A lot of the corruption and such likes reported in the book, could occur in any country, including England I think. A book I'd definitely recommend to anyone, particularly americans.

[Guybrush122]

Originally posted by mercatfat

when it comes to the whole nation, it's up to the leaders.

 

Well no sh*t. That's my point.

 

Originally posted by mercatfat

I'm going to be controversial here and say I don't mind this because normal Americans aren't on the inside enough to understand how to run the whole country, thus it's best that we have leaders that know way more inside stuff than we do run things. Maybe it won't always turn out in your best intrest, especially not immediately, but the economic patterns of America seem to show that it's the best way.

 

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Oh yeah. The economy is great. That's why we kill for oil.

 

Originally posted by mercatfat

On the oppression subject, be realistic. You don't know what oppression is. You've just been deservedly beat up a few times.

 

I haven't been beat up. Not for the shirt anyway. And if you say I deserve it...why? Because I voice my opinion? Now, if you're for America and America is for freedom of speach and you say that I deserve to be beaten up because I wore a shirt that you find offensive......how American are you?

 

 

Originally posted by mercatfat

If the guy 'cries' because you wear a "f america" shirt, well, come on you retard. You're insulting him and the generations of his family that died making sure you have a great country to live in today. On the other hand, a "god bless america" insults.. satanists? Be realistic.

 

I'm a retard and a satanist? Oh how mature of you to say so. I know he's deeply insulted. Ever think that I'm deeply insulted when he wears a "God Bless America" shirt? Ever think that I get insulted when kids tell me I'm a freak because of the way I dress? That I'm a fag because I wear eyeliner? That they're gonna slit my throat and rape my girlfriend? You think that doesn't f*cking offend me? Why do they do it? Because they don't like what I have to say or what I like to wear. Do I flip a bitch? Do I cry about it and get my friends to threaten them? No. I'm being really f*cking realistic...THEIR problem is they can dish it out but they can't take it.

 

Originally posted by mercatfat

Don't even bring up Marx. I've done more than my fair amount of research to know that that guy is incredibly shortsighted. Socialism never works because of the will of the people. His views of perfect capatalism will never will work because they require too many specific conditions, much like his socialism. He's not even worth bothering with.

 

Marx? He was an economic genious. True, Communism will never work because people are just lazy and wouldn't work hard. People need an insentive. But you can't say that he's shortsighted. Don't even f*cking talk till you've read Das Capital. Capitalism is f*cked because, under Capitalism, workers do not exchange the products of their labor -- they exchange the labor itself for money. They sell themselves for a given period of time, and in return for wages, promise to obey their paymasters. Those who pay and give the orders -- owners and managers -- are at the top of the hierarchy, those who obey at the bottom. Capitalism, by its very nature, is hierarchical. And Communism is f*cked because it depends on hardworking individuals who work hard for...nothing. No one would do that. The idea of Communism, in a sense, is Utopian...in a better world it would work perfectly.

[Feral]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!! Oh yeah. The economy is great. That's why we kill for oil.

As Mercat has continually stated, the actual amount of money that America would get from the oil is very low.

 

I haven't been beat up. Not for the shirt anyway. And if you say I deserve it...why? Because I voice my opinion? Now, if you're for America and America is for freedom of speach and you say that I deserve to be beaten up because I wore a shirt that you find offensive......how American are you?

I don't think Mercat is saying that he thinks you deserve to be beaten up; rahter, I think he was saying that from the beaters point of view, you did deserve it.

 

Ever think that I'm deeply insulted when he wears a "God Bless America" shirt?

No, I doubt he, or I, did. Why would that offend you, exactly?

 

Marx? He was an economic genious. True, Communism will never work because people are just lazy and wouldn't work hard.

And you call other people contradictions. How oxymoronic is that statement? You say that Marx is a genius for suggesting that communism would bring about financial stability, yet then state that communism will never work? That's just dumb.

 

in a better world it (Communism) would work perfectly.

This is exactly what Mercat means...you seriously need a reality overhaul. It's no good saying "in a perfect world", because the world never will be perfect, and there's no point in trying to fight that.