bugkill Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 is it possible to make new animations when it concerns holding blasters and other weapons beside a lightsaber? i feel that it is totally unrealistic to fire a blaster from the "hip". if there has been a modification for this, please let me. if not, would someone please take up the challenge to change this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psyk0Sith Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 Ah yes the animations debate...Wudan is working on something along with other coders (razor, Ask and maybe corto?) let's just hope raven can provide the support they need and actually send a XSI file that works. Anyways check the general editing forum for threads related to anims. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASk Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 At the moment? No. In the future? Depends on the degree of RavenSoft's cooperation with us. Right now it's at -1 and falling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 12, 2003 Share Posted April 12, 2003 animations are invariably the most difficult part of modding any game. across the board, every game ive ever looked into, its always the same. i think its general practice to keep animation abilities under wraps, so companies dont end up making games that compete with games they make in the next cycle. just my opinion, but the fact that every single other game in the fps genre [the most moddable games generally] has the same anim problems amounts to writing on the wall. id forget about help from raven unless one of the devs tells you otherwise. let me take this opportunity to suggest the torque engine from garagegames.com. its only a hundred bucks for the full source and a fantastic commercial license, and you can mod their free demo game realm wars, WITH ANIMS AND ALL. much better place for the diy gamemaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Torque engine calling.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 FEH. The Torque is not good. First off, it's not written in C. C is the perfect descriptor language for ANYTHING. So, go pick it up for 100 bucks. Have fun w/ that. Oh, and new animations are possible ... but you're saying I should keep it under wraps ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ASk Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 It is coded in C++ What's bad with that? I just do not like it...it's not an efficient engine...reminds me of the Valusoft games that are all running on one engine, sims, shooters, rpg's Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psynex Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 animation problems? Man, call me old, but Half-life's still my preffered editable game. You animate using all the tools you use to animate with in max. So it doesn't support really large textures, JPGs, or high poly counts, but it is still, by far, the easiest to mod for. Not to mention all the source is out there in C/C++ (unsure if it's one or both). I've seen a coder site that made a plug-in to custom a dll that supports higher polycounts and better graphics; unfortunately he never released it and kept the source locked up as well. I wonder why more coders haven't made custom graphics plug-ins for HL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Well, the big problem with animations for JK2 is that it seems like the animators don't really know what is going on. They just make the XSI animations and magically they appear in GLA form. Well, there is one guy who knows about GLA but it sounds like he knows what I know, so we know ... everything ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Originally posted by ASk It is coded in C++ What's bad with that? I just do not like it...it's not an efficient engine...reminds me of the Valusoft games that are all running on one engine, sims, shooters, rpg's Oh, I heard somewhere that it was not. Nevermind Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 13, 2003 Share Posted April 13, 2003 Remember that the engine just needs to be able to handle the world physic, rendering, animations, and have a versital scripting system. Behound that is gameplay specific and fairly easy to change. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 "FEH. The Torque is not good." good is highly subjective. since you have the source, you have a hand in whether or not its "good." its a damn sight better than half-life, and hl is STILL the biggest fps for modders and players. torque has better netcode than any game i can think of, and better terrain than almost any fps i can think of. when per-pixel lighting is added in (being worked on), torque will be even better. not to mention dynamically loading terrain which is being beta tested now... all this is ignoring the fact that you can actually SELL the game you make, or give it away, or anything else you want to do. "Oh, and new animations are possible ... but you're saying I should keep it under wraps ..." never said it wasnt possible, i said raven is probably not going to give you the keys to the city. im not basing that GUESS on raven, im basing it on the industry. i'd love to be wrong, but i doubt i will be. human head studios, made a custom animation system for rune, a game that according to some of the devs "never made its money back." hh is holding onto their anim code like its a holy relic. but raven is going to release everything for the anim system that powered jk2 and the sof series? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 "raven is going to release everything for the anim system that powered jk2 and the sof series?" *Archimedes said "GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH" I would have to agree with Archie on this one. Sorry, Raven already gave us the keys to the city. And then some. The way to get answers to the questions you ask is to ask the right question - that said, what the h3ll am I going to do with an XSI file? I don't have XSI and I don't want XSI - I have a GLA file, and I can read it and I can write it. I can make new animations. What I am building, dear student, is a place to stand. I am not an idiot, I know they are possible. I have pimped this system. I will pimp it with every bit of accuracy and detail as you can get by exporting the precious "XSI" file. I am well over annoyed with the community on this issue. Why do you keep begging for an XSI file from Raven that probably doesn't exist (only in the fantasies of madmen.) At least ONCE a DAY for the last WEEK I see some thread about animations. Stop IT. Gah! Somebody start a thread about animations and sticky it so people can post their useless whinings up there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 That said, I agree with you on the Torque issue. Very nice engine, now that I take a decent look at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 *Archimedes said "GIVE ME A PLACE TO STAND AND I WILL MOVE THE EARTH" hey guy, more power to you. i am a very optimistic type, but i also know how to read writing on a wall. if you can do it without raven, or if theyve already done enough, then GREAT! im not naysaying you. im just making observations about the game industry (from the outside) as i see it. "I would have to agree with Archie on this one. Sorry, Raven already gave us the keys to the city. And then some." i was just responding to all the "raven needs to help us," comments. they wont. ive yet to see a dev team do so vis a vis animation unless the animations werent much to begin with (quake 3). "That said, I agree with you on the Torque issue. Very nice engine, now that I take a decent look at it." im actually surprised you said that. not that youre wrong, but it can be difficult to find good screenshots of torque, and very easy to find less than good screenshots of torque. did you download Realm Wars or something? there really arent enough superlatives to describe torque properly. its an amazingly, fabulously, stupendously good deal for a hundred bucks (you do have to pay ten grand for a commercial license >IF< your studio exceeds 500,000 usd in annual sales of your games). not saying its perfect, not by a long shot, there are still broken parts to the engine (sound is kinda fuxxored), docs could be better, art pipeline is adequate not great, etc., but c'mon, the source and license to the Tribes 2 engine for a c-note? there is nothing better for indy developers, period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 What I don't get is why there's a .xsi with a different bone setup in the first place. There's gotta be something we're missing here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 "Remember that the engine just needs to be able to handle the world physic, rendering, animations, and have a versital scripting system. Behound that is gameplay specific and fairly easy to change." are you referring to torque, or jk2? been thinking of using torque, perhaps? if so, you should, you can mod it without buying the source if the c-note is too much up front. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 In general, but I've been checking out torque for a friend. To buy, not to mod. Anyway, it looks fairly good and you can't beat that price. Personally, I want to know more about its mesh collision system. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 what do you want to know? you should ask on the fora, the community there is pretty helpful. not necessarily lightning fast, mind you. im a member and an sdk owner, so mebbe your friend and i can talk. from what i remember, collision is in need of help to do per-pixel or highly exact collision, but i also remember that a fellow programmed in a per poly collision system for hth combat. not sure how well it works, but its a start. if you want i can ask on the garagegames forum to get you some answers. your friend isnt looking into making a medieval-fantasy rpg/tps is he? i ask because i am... . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
razorace Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 Yeah, I want to know if there's a known way to do perpoly collisions (that match the animations) in torque. I've been wanting to ask on the forums but have been too lazy/busy to actually do it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 yeah im pretty sure that theres been a good bit of work for this area. the community has done 95% of all the additions to the code (that im aware of), the proggers there are pretty sharing types. for instance one guy has improved the fluid rendering code drastically (water's edge used to be jaggy and ugly, not anymore. now it looks very nice), added day/night cycles, dynamic lights, etc. another guy added the perpoly collision for hth. another added a text based conversation system and editor, etc etc. the same guy who coded the hth collision also did other code for combat. oh yeah and yet another guy added hideable nodes, laying the groundwork for a nice character customization system for an rpg. i could go on and on. ill do a search on collision and let you know what i find . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 http://www.garagegames.com/index.php?sec=mg&mod=resource&page=view&qid=3374 theres the tutorial on getting locational damage into tge, but i was wrong, its hitbox based not perpoly. you really should read around yourself, im not a coder so i could give you some bad info :\ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wudan Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 I'm just trippin' lately. I'll be better soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 14, 2003 Share Posted April 14, 2003 from the gg forums Tim Gift (gg progger): The V12 does support collision with convex polyhedrons attached to bones. The bones can also be used to animate a "skinned" vertex weighted mesh (used for the animals in Trophy Hunting) or each bone can optionally have individual static meshes attached to them (like Tribes). I think you can collide a box, line, and possible another convex polyhedron against the collision hierarchy, but I´m pretty sure you can´t collide two player shapes against each other at the level your talking about. All the support functions are there though, so this wouldn´t be too hard to add. The bones are imported, or exported, from max. There currently isn´t any bone transform level control from the scripting language. This type of control is done using animation sequences defined in max (rotate head, rotate arms, etc.). The animation control system allows running multiple animation sequences at once, and script interface functions are provided. If you really wanted to control individual bone transforms directly... you´ll have the source I not sure where the quadrant system used in tribes is being calculate, that may actually be in script code. I don´t think it´s using information from the actually collision engine though. The engine already supports collision boxes on the "bones". What it doesn´t support is testing one set of bone boxes against another set. You would have to write a function that would loop through and test all of shape A´s collsion boxes against shape B´s. The functions to test the intersection are already there, it shouldn´t be hard to add the loop. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12345678 Posted April 15, 2003 Share Posted April 15, 2003 "I'm just trippin' lately. I'll be better soon." heh, i know the feeling. can someone tell me how the hell you get points? is it for posting? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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