Darth Windu Posted June 4, 2003 Author Share Posted June 4, 2003 sith - wow, thats quite an honour coming from you. In terms of gameplay and realism i went for 100% realism and then started balancing. Of course i cant balance it properly because its just on paper, but i have a good idea of what id like to see and hopefully that comes across in my idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 sith - wow, thats quite an honour coming from you. Nah, you're a respectable member of the community (no more annoying threads). A lot higher standing in my book than like say simwiz. The only thing I raised an eyebrow to the Kaminoan worker. I think that the current ones are more realistic (being from corusant and in a movie) plus their a lot cooler to kill. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 5, 2003 Author Share Posted June 5, 2003 Well with the droid i havent actually paid a great deal of attention to the name of the Republic worker in SWGB, but thats the one im talking about anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 5, 2003 Share Posted June 5, 2003 Should we have something else then droids? I mean I know they're the main workforce but in the movies we saw tons of engineers and technicians. Should they have a role? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 6, 2003 Author Share Posted June 6, 2003 luke - well at one time i had the Republic's worker as a Clone Engineer, but then you have to realise that the job of the worker is not only to build buidlings, but also to mine resources. Because of that, i thought it would be a bit wierd to have a Clone trooper mining Nova crystals... sith - how do you mean "The gameplay jury's still out, but it doesn't look like a positive verdict from where im standing". As i've said from the start i like member input so if possible could you expand on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 Windu- Thought so... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 7, 2003 Author Share Posted June 7, 2003 luke - what do you mean by 'thought so'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 7, 2003 Share Posted June 7, 2003 What you said about technicians looking weird when they're gathering ressources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JediMasterEd Posted June 8, 2003 Share Posted June 8, 2003 Clone Troopers were ment to fight. Hence the "Troopers" title. Course you already knew that...I hope... Perhaps one that may look like a trooper but with different armor colors like the battle driods. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 8, 2003 Author Share Posted June 8, 2003 Well as i said i thought about giving the Republic Clone Engineers but they would look odd collecting resources. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 9, 2003 Share Posted June 9, 2003 Windu-I meant that there wasn't any gameplay info (stats, etc.), so the jury's still out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted June 10, 2003 Share Posted June 10, 2003 Windu - ever thought that each civ doesn't need the same number of things? Units will be balanced while at the same time remaining true to the movies, so one civ may have less variety but better standard units while another may have a huge selection of mediocre units. By the way, what is an ARC Trooper? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 10, 2003 Author Share Posted June 10, 2003 Vostok - well there were a few reason, being that each civ had around that number anyway before i even counted, and also to prevent stuff like 'you're favouring x civ because they have more units!'. Obviously if my idea were to be converted to a playable game, these numbers would likely change for the sake of balance. Also the ARC Trooper is the Advanced Reconnaissance Clone Trooper. I first saw it as a Hasbro toy and apparently they are also in some comics. Basically, they are the Navy SEAL's of the Republican Army. They just seemed very unique to me, even though they arent in the movies, and i thought they would be fun to use. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 11, 2003 Share Posted June 11, 2003 I read stuff about the ARC in the databanks at SW.com and they're simply like the rebel specforces. So they are not so unique. And a civ having x more number of unit doesn't mean you are favoring it. A civ with uber units will however be favored(or look like) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 12, 2003 Author Share Posted June 12, 2003 luke - but Rebel special forces arent in the game, hence the ARC Trooper is unique. Also, it depends on what you consider to be an 'uberunit'. In my idea, each and every unit has particular strengths and weaknesses. For example- SPHA-T - has very long range and very powerful, but has no secondary weapons, has a minimum range, cannot be air transported, takes up 5 pop slots AT-AT - very heavy armour and heavy firepower, but is slow, expensive, takes up 4 pop slots and can only fire at targets directly in front of it and a few degrees left and right A-wing - very fast interceptor, best used vs bombers and can destroy them quickly, but has low armour and performs poorly against and ground target and is weaker than fighters and so on... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 12, 2003 Share Posted June 12, 2003 Windu- What tells that the rebel specforce won't be in the game? And Uber units are like simon the killer ewok or the death star. Or if you want a better example(being an old StarCraft fan) the protoss. The Dark Archon could mind control any unit turning him to your side giving the protoss the ability to mind control other civs' workers. Those workers could then build Terran or Zerg buildings and start a new uber civ made of all the civs combined. That's a uber unit. A unit too powerful. If a civ was made up of such units, it would be favored. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CorranSec Posted June 13, 2003 Share Posted June 13, 2003 Well, I've decided to be a rebel and vote 'Other.' Windu, I don't know how many times we have to say it. It's clear that GB2 would be much better if there were unique unit sets, instead of your generic templates with a few unique units and a single- yes, count it, single- unique building. Windu, you simply cannot say that you have unique unit sets faced with evidence like that, taken directly from your latest Word document. And seeing as we are seeking unique units that enhance the civ's character and make it different to other civs- well, why not all of them, instead of basic troopers/mechs? Why not none of them? The idea of restricting the amount of units to 20 and having 5 unique units yet only including one seems directly contradictory to what we've been talking about the whole time (namely, unique unit sets). Does anyone else see this way? Luke's dad- Hehe. Good old Protoss. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 I agree Corran. When i was making (or copying) my templates (see thread) I was focusing on balance and the civ's character/play style. Those to elements make up gameplay (with some extras) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 14, 2003 Author Share Posted June 14, 2003 Luke - because i didnt include them in my idea, and thats what we're talking about... Corran - what are you talking about? No unit in my idea is exactly the same as any other unit. BTW, i have significantly updated my idea since the one i sent you. Also, as i have said, my idea for uniqueness goes as such- 1. Generic unit with multipliers (ie speed, firepower etc) 2. Semi-unique units with multipliers 3. Unique units 4. Generic buidlings 5. Unique buildings I dont see any need for more than 1 unique building as that building enhances a particular civ's strengths, and whats the point in having a unique barracks for every civ since they do the same thing anyway? As for my generic units, as i said they all have multipliers, for example, the Rebel trooper is significantly faster but has less armour and firepower than the Clone Trooper, but they are both troopers. PS: if you're going to vote 'other', it helps to say what 'other' unit you would like instead of the other options... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 Windu, like I said at my thread, unique buildings aren't just the generic ones with different units/arts/names. They are truly unique. You'll understand when I post my next template (its gonna be the gungans probably, they're the most "done"). The gungans only have three "military" buildings, compared to the Confeds six (thy have so many buildings to simulate the idea that they were made up of bunches of different parts, unlike now, which is pretty homogenous). And, if I remember my templates correctly, there really isn't a "mech" building or a "trooper" building. Having generic units or semi-generic units kinda defeats the purpose of the unique unit sets... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 14, 2003 Share Posted June 14, 2003 To get back at my example of StarCraft, you can look at the zealot, the marine and the hydralisk. They're all primary infantry units while being really unique at the same time. Of course in the case of SWGB, this can't really be done(with exceptions of Wookiees, Gungans and Hutt Cartel). The other units uses similar weapons so they might need to be semi-unique after all. And maybe certain civs have different types of building units. Like gungans breed their mechs(if we can call them mechs) we can do this à la zerg in StarCraft. Their mechs come from eggs and gets armed after that.(ok maybe those animals don't come from eggs but I dunno!). The republic can create clone clones(d'uh) in a clone factory. The trade fed can litterally build stuff. With the rebels you train recruits, with the wookiees(and ewok) well...they do...what people have to do to have babies(ok weird I just had to say it:p ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 you look at things from a fairly graphical level. Weapons aren't what dictate uniqueness, its the way they play and their overall purpose in the game. Spears, hops, and ulfs in AoM look pretty different and even have quite different stats, but they are the only universal semi-generic unit in the game because they are all very similar in purpose. My StarCraft experience is limited, but im pretty sure that zealots, hrdalisks, and marine were fairly different for gameplay reasons as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 well take it from a StarCraft maniac(old StarCraft maniac). They weren't so different(the zealot can't attack air but that's all). They are your primary ground infantry unit and serves almost the same purpose. It's not only from graphical point of view. I actually think that Wookiees and Hutt Cartel should have different main infantry unit(berserker and gamorrean guard). And cool graphics are important we don't want big squares and circles fighting each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted June 15, 2003 Author Share Posted June 15, 2003 Sith - i strongly disagree about having completely unique buildings because- 1. They generally do the same things 2. It would be very difficult to balance 3. It would take up a lot of system resources Hence, why have them? Most, if not all RTS games have generic buildings, the difference in my idea being that each civ has access to a unique building, such as the Clone Factory for the Republic and Starfleet Uplink for the Empire. I would also like to point out Corran was severely mistaken when he said that each of my civs only has 5 unique units, i will use the Republic as an example- Generic- 1. Worker 2. Medic 3. Clone Trooper 4. Clone Rifle Trooper 5. Clone Commander 6. Jedi Knight 7. Utility Trawler 8. Frigate Semi-Unique- 1. Clone Repeater Trooper/Sniper 2. Cruiser Unique- 1. ARC Trooper 2. Jedi Master 3. Clone Trooper on Imperial Speeder Bike 4. AT-XT 5. AT-TE 6. SPHA-T 7. AA-9 Starfrieghter 8. Jedi Starfighter 9. Gunship 10. Dropship As you can see the Republic actually has 50% totally unique units, the rest being semi-unique and generic as a matter of course (ie everyone has them anyway) and are that way to save on system resources and make for a better performing game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sithmaster_821 Posted June 15, 2003 Share Posted June 15, 2003 Windu, didn't you agree on the unique unit sets thread that unique unit sets were necessay despite some system resourses problems? Strange change of pace... Most, if not all RTS games have generic buildings Actually the only mainstreamRTS game that has come out in the past year that used generic buildings/units was RoN, and there already is a thread concerning that games short-comings so i dont need to go into it. 1. They generally do the same things 2. It would be very difficult to balance 3. It would take up a lot of system resources 1. Most of the aforementioned (or somewhat aforementioned) games with unique building sets had buildings that produced different types of units than their counterparts in other civs. 2. I understand balancing different unit sets, but buildings? You rarely have "overpowered buildings, especially if they all just build units 3. In 2005, when this game probably will come out, I'm certain that most of the people will have computers that can handle it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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