Homoludens Posted July 30, 2003 Share Posted July 30, 2003 Whoah. Looks like Core Design's collective head is being readied for the chopping block: Tomb Raider Shake-up [July 30, 2003, 10:14 AM EDT] Eidos To Meet Original Market Expectation For Operating Profit is a press release with word that development of the Tomb Raider franchise is to be transferred to Eidos' US-based Crystal Dynamics. Word is: "The next Tomb Raider game is scheduled to release during the financial year to June 30, 2005. In the light of this decision, the Company will now be evaluating the Core Design studio's on-going direction and contribution as part of the Group's overall development capabilities, it said." Blue's News (my italics) Paramount/Eidos: "Get that damn game out the door to coincide with the movie or the deal's off!" Core Design: "Yes sir, right away, sir!" [hurries the game and neglects to tweak out gameplay and bugs] [a few months later....] Paramount/Eidos: "You f@#*ing idiots! The movie's doing sh#tty because the game sucks! We want your blood!!!" Core Design: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 oh...trep you are funny...LOL As for the new game.... Why 2005...i mean they have the new engine...they just need a new plot and to fix the bugs etc...,isn't it:confused: (as for Angel of darkness...not able to play it enough as have some problems with my parents computer but i like it ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SamandMax Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Originally posted by pleto4_ryan i mean they have the new engine I think that's the problem. Their 'new' engine is basically a slightly updated grid system. They need to make the game fresh again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted July 31, 2003 Author Share Posted July 31, 2003 Yes, the changes made in AOD are, at best, superficial. They could have engineered a brand new engine, one that can scale up to PC or down to PS2. Flexibility combined with quality counts a great deal in this day of cross platform games. And you can tell they failed to do their homework and study successfully done games like Splinter Cell (controls, porting, stealth gameplay, interface, overall atmosphere), Deus Ex (RPG management system, branching dialogue, character skills relative level design), and Max Payne (controls, interface). They concentrated too much on the 'look-at-these-cool-new-features' factor, neglecting to back it up with solid gameplay. They really could have taken advantage beefier of A.I. and introduced us to enemies that force you to think and strategize to defeat. That would have added a new angle with within. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feisar Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 the game gets to no1 and sells a stupid amount of copies.. ..the film scrapes in at no4, gets terrible reviews and is comming from paramount, who are owned by viacom. The company activision are taking legal action against for making crap star trek stuff thats hurting the videogame sales.. crystal dynamics are taking over tomb raider. This is the developer who lost eidos millions through gex, that stupid disney racing game, blood omen and soul reaver. Soul Reaver is possibly the only other major release out there that was more bugged, rushed and flawed than the latest tomb raider.. eidos are planning on closing core design. Without core, eidos would not still be in business.. core are one of the most profilic developers out there.. creators of classic games since the 80's, stuff like corporation, rick dangerous, chuck rock, thunderhawk, fighting force, shellshock and tomb raider. This is a very bad day indeed for the UK games industry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moosferatu Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Which Soul Reaver? I think that Soul Reaver 2 has an excellent plot. The plots of Blood Omen 2, and Soul Reaver 1 aren't nearly as good, but still pretty decent. I can't wait till Defiance comes out. There is such an odd cliff hanger at the end of Soul Reaver 2. I can't wait to see where the story goes. Oh, I think that I should probably point out that I have never actually played any of the games. I friend of mine has all of them and I have seen him play some of it. I have also read all of their plots online. It is surprising how much detail they go into too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 To completely confirm Trep's statements, according to Avault, it's all over but the cryin' , and [warning, warning, rant imminent!] I completed the disaster that is AOD, so I know why. Extremely lame and oversimplified game play, early-beta-stage controls, and more bugs than a tropical rain forest stomp out any good there was in the graphics, story and voiceovers. This series not only doesn't go anywhere new, but it actually loses ground from the old days to boot! And yes, I am *still* mad about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted July 31, 2003 Author Share Posted July 31, 2003 Aw, Skinny! Would it make you feel somewhat better if I mentioned that Prince of Persia: The Sands of Time is looking very, very promising? From all the previews I've read thus far it looks to be fantastic, from the fluid, effortless controls to the fine animations and inverse kinetics, to the gorgeously exotic gameworld, this should be the game that TR:AOD could have been. I'm thinking of saving the money I had originally set aside for TR:AOD and instead getting PoP with it. You should read the preview from Gamespy and augment that with some streaming gameplay footage from the official site. BTW, UbiSoft, the guys who are working on PoP, are the same talents who made Splinter Cell, the upcoming XIII, and are publishing Far Cry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 ...Sniff!... *grabs for her tissue box* ...That was just...sniff...beautiful, Trep! Thank you! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zygomaticus Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 That's really kind of pathetic...on both sides' parts. You convey the message well, Homoludens Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglasmcc Posted July 31, 2003 Share Posted July 31, 2003 Actually the blame here lies on both Eidos and Cores "relative" heads. Eidos told them the game had to ship by June 30. That was the end of the financial quarter and their bottom line was looking crappy at best. By releasing the game then, they had a short term victory in that initial sells raised their profit margin enough to keep stockholders happy. They neglected the long term picture: many people are unhappy with the game, so it hurts the franchises viability down the road. This is typical corporate "brain trust" at its best, so I am not shocked by it. Core found themselves between a rock and a hard place. I almost feel sad for them. However, then I realize they had been working on the game for 3 years so they put themselves in that hard place. I personally enjoyed the game AOD. However, I have to agree that it was A.) only a marginal increase over previous installments B.) really buggy... could still be finished but the controls were crap on anything but the PC... and still hampered PC play C.) not enough graphically or gameplay of an upgrade to take 3 years to make. Core put themselves in this position so let them take the blame... maybe now they will see the error of all those stripper-grams they ordered and charged to Eidos as "motion capturing sessions" Maybe Crystal Dyn. can turn Lara around. I enjoyed AOD, but I wouldnt have enjoyed the last 2 parts of the AOD series (was suppose to be the first part of a trilogy) if they were the same engine in new settings. Also, I went to see the movie. It was better than the first and ranks a decent B in my book. Its really unfair for Paramount to blame the poor reception on the game sales though. They put the film out at the end of a long line of action movies (Matrix Reloaded, T3 Rise of the Machines, 2 Fast 2 Furious, Bad Boys 2, and a LOT more). After all the action movies this Summer, Tomb Raider 2 was bound to fail. It would have had to be the best action movie of them all to overcome the blase disenchantment that movie goers were experiencing. Sorry, but thats a tie right now (in my opinion) between Matrix Reloaded and Pirates of Carribean. Hell, Im an action movie junkie and Im starting to feel like its the day after Thanksgiving. I couldnt eat one more bit of turkey, yet the fridge is still full Paramount should have either A.) pushed it to a May release or B.) pushed it to a Winter release when there will be very little in the action movie genre to compete with it. But simple logic like that always escapes executives. And hey... they can always blame the source material if the movie fails... even though its bull (insert favorite vulgar word for feces). Okay, went overlong, but it was sort of a catharsis for me. Thanks for listening (hey I almost qualify as a "text adventure" now... right? ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinny Minnie Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 LOL Doug-- you should take your act out on the road! You make some good points (although to me, AOD was still a severe disappointment and easily the worst TR of the series despite good graphics). And the biggest mindblower to me, too, is that Core worked on this thing for three years... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 It would be fairly easy to say that we gamers are also at fault because we elevated our expectations for AOD to precariously high levels. But that would only be one facet. IMO, Eidos and Core Design severely overhyped the game, primarily because the TR franchise has always allowed itself to be hyped, but specifically because they wanted to show - and show off- how the next Tomb Raider will be 'bigger, better, more bad-ass' than all of the previous games put together, never mind that they actually had to follow it up with a solid game. Has anyone seen the trailers leading up to the game's release? One of them shows the key members of the development team in moody, dark settings - walking under bridges, leaning against a tree, faces half-lit, while the soundtrack of them saying how Lara must come to face her dark side plays. It was so damn hilarious and trite! It was corny. And all through that there was very little video of the game itself, so what you got was this kind of artsy looking trailer that's supposed make you ponder about the 'deep moral and philosophical underpinning' of the next TR game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglasmcc Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 Actually Homoludens, I didnt have excessive expectations for AOD. All I was looking for was "more Tomb Raider" with better graphics. Fix the controls and the bugs and I would have been very satisfied with the game. So maybe my low expectations were the reason I consider the game enjoyable overall. With the great dialogue and good story, maybe they should have increased its adventure game aspects.... oh wait, Adventure Games are dead according to the "Industry" All I know is the best two games I have played this month are Dark Fall and Space Quest 0 Replicated (a fan game). That speaks volumes. Adventure games arent dead... its just the gaming scene is dominated by twich' gamers without the intelligence or patience to make it through something like a Gabriel Knight game. So sad for the world that we seem to be experiencing a de-evolution right now... opps I think Im ranting again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 1, 2003 Author Share Posted August 1, 2003 *sigh* Well, that's just me for being too impressionable and not cynical enough. Reading the previews and interviews, I really was hoping that this Tomb Raider game would finally deviate enough from the formulaic and stereotypical path while at the same time preserving some of the most elemental aspects that made the previous ones so much fun. I haven't played the full game, but my gleanings are that they didn't reevaluate the fundamental structure of the gameplay (because the fans would get pissed), they didn't iron out the technicalities (because it was rushed), they grafted the new features on (RPG system, branching dialogue) instead of designing the game inside out with them, and etc. But like I stated, they promised so much newness but ultimately that newness was slapped on top as garnish, and not part of the main ingredients. This is why I compared it to the upcoming PoP game. They're similar that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pleto4_ryan Posted August 1, 2003 Share Posted August 1, 2003 *looks at prince of persia pictures Let's hope the sand of time feature shall work perfectly... after all Jodan Merchner (killed it ) is part of the team :drooling: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feisar Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Eidos wanted to change its corporate image a bit, so now they have a new logo. Can you feel the excitement? Eidos has today unveiled a fresh corporate image, by design consultants BexonWoodhouse, in order to keep pace with the ever-changing requirements of the market place and technology. According to the release, the corporate re-branding is to be used across the group worldwide starting August 1, 2003. Eidos says the new image "conveys a forward looking, customer focused, market-smart publisher of entertainment software." Mike McGarvey, ceo of Eidos comments: "The new look marks the success of a turnaround programme and the beginning of a new era to underline our commitment and ability to deliver great games. It also reflects a company that is raising the quality bar and aiming for consistency across all disciplines." "The old Eidos identity was designed 10 years ago for a video compression company - not with consumers in mind. The new logo has a sharp, streamlined and focused look that is aimed at the customer. There was no point in changing the style before having successfully changed the substance." "By embracing our new identity and mission - 'Committed to the Gameplay Experience' - Eidos will build a stronger brand and, in turn, a stronger business." Apart from the logo looking like a sign pointing to their offices and outdated compared to the old one its not that bad.. but then rebranding core design a few months ago really helped them didnt it? This does reek of desperation re-branding trying to hide the problems at the company. All eidos' management desicisions over the past two years have centred around preparing the company for sale, two sales have gone through in the past, the cracks are showing again and there is still no sale. Eidos has always been run into the ground with the occasional mega hit saving them for another year or so before all the same problems come back.. Cuts are the only reason they have been profitable recently, every sucess they have gets run into the ground with endless sequels until they end up loosing more money than the thing originally made.. eidos turnover has been sliding since 1999. Sadly we've seen the company very slowly die since this time.. tomb raider, then who wants to be a millionarre, then championship manager 4 have only made things prolonged and more painful. Hopefully something good will come of this? Like someone talking on whats left of the franchises once the company dies and doing good with them... or perhaps the loss of eidos opening up the market for another british publisher to take its place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Originally posted by feisar Star Trek, anyone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglasmcc Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 Sorry Feisar, but Eidos the entity isnt going anywhere. It may still get sold, but it has enough quality titles coming out over the next 12 months to keep it out of the red. Heck, considering Deus Ex Invisible War, Commandos 3, Thief 3, Republic, Backyard Wrestling (this game may sound stupid, but it will sell like crazy here in the US if it is even decent... look at all the sales of the other wrestling games here despite quality), etc. I would say Eidos has their strongest release schedule since the mid 90's. Tomb Raider AOD will be considered a "failure" but it still sold well the first few weeks before word of mouth killed it. Eidos will drop the price in the next few months, then the sales will increase (the good things sites point out.... story, dialogue, some exciting events will draw more consumers at a 29.99 or 19.99 price range). Barring delays out the arse or just plain bad luck, Eidos will still be around in a year. Maybe even stronger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Homoludens Posted August 2, 2003 Author Share Posted August 2, 2003 Sorry, Douglas, but feisar's radar rarely ever tracks what's going on the PC gaming world . His posts are practically only on PS2 titles and its surrounding industry goings-on. If you need any news and other info regarding such, he's yo' man. Thanks for sharing your angle on Eidos' PC department. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Douglasmcc Posted August 2, 2003 Share Posted August 2, 2003 An adventure game fan on the PS2? Isnt that an oxymoron:D ? I didnt think their were many adventure games on the consoles. I do have a PS2, but it is many for Final Fantasy games and EA sports. But don't discount Eidos's console push. Backyard Wrestling is strictly console. Deus Ex 2 and Thief 3 are being designed with consoles in mind (they are suppose to release PC, PS2, and X-Box versions at the same time). I will choose to play those on PC, but when Warren Spector (the game genious behind Deus Ex 2 development... Spector, Carmack, and Sid Meier are the closest thing the US has to a Miyamoto type gaming genious) says Deus Ex 2 will be fun and playable on the consoles, I believe him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
feisar Posted August 4, 2003 Share Posted August 4, 2003 ugh yes consoles have adventures and always have done *sigh* as for eidos lets see... year 2000: published who wants to be a millionarre? - became the fastest selling title ever in the UK and sold over a million copies. Were the No1 publisher. Had an unparalelled 30% of the UK market and sold more games on PAL than EA. also released resident evil 3, tomb raider chronicles, sydney 2000, commandos 2, gangsters 2, deus ex, timesplitters, three kingdoms, hitman codename 47, project IGI, fear effect 2, chicken run102 dalmations, power stone 2, F1 grand prix 2000 and championship manager season 00/01 - which became the biggest selling PC titles in the UK and the first title (alongside red alert 2) to be released in a DVD box. All these titles sold in huge numbers and in almost all cases above expectations. Yet they lost over £100 million that year. Lets see their annual turnover figures: 1999 = £223.6 million 2000 = £194.8 million 2001 = £160.4 million And what Games Investor.co.uk has to say: "we believe Eidos is being built for a trade sale. Key to this (as it is to any publisher sale) is the ownership of repeat-revenue generative franchises and product lines as these are key to publisher profits and are easily transferable to a third party. Eidos has (oganically) created more 1m unit selling products than any other publisher in Europe and in Time Splitters and Hitman, the Company has added a further two during the current year alone. More impressively, Eidos has achieved this using internal brands rather than by entering the expensive andn risky IP licence and acquisition market. The successful re-establishment of the Tomb Raider franchise within this category of 1m unit sellers (something which is not guaranteed but is extremely likely based on current pre-release retailer feedback) may well trigger the start of a search for a suitable suitor and it is difficult to see any publisher in the global top 20 not taking a genuine interest when this happens" my radar always covers the PC its just that unlike most other people on here it doesnt end there. eidos have always had strong releases but never have turned it into profit. and their strongest line-up since the mid 90's?? eidos didnt even move into the videogames industry until 1995 when it acquired Domark. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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