Empire like the United States?

[lukeiamyourdad]

Originally posted by TK8252MJL

You are sadly mistaken, lukeiamyourdad. The US is not extracting any oil for their own use. You must have been brainwashed by those anti-america people. The US is using the money from the oil to help the Iraqis. And I don't think the US would spend billions and billions and billions of dollars just to get the US soldiers killed and murder Iraqis just for the oil.

 

And you aren't brainwashed by Bush's propaganda?

 

Think dude. What's the point in spending billions if you don't get a bigger compensation? Goodness? Every country is controlled or lead by businessmen. They think like bussinessmen not like intellectuals.

 

You'll see that 20 years from now you'll get oil for a cheaper price then the rest of us.

 

I'm not brainwashed by anyone I'm looking at facts from different sources. You have to open up and stop saying we can do no wrong we are always right always good. It leads to very bad behavior.

[benTantilles]

jedispy-

excellent points. in fact, the only reason why the US could be likened 2 the empire is coz both are in dominant military positions.

 

lukeimyourdad & tk8252-

both of u are right--and wrong.

 

The US is not extracting any oil for their own use

yes, you're right--it's not. the US isn't exacting profit from iraq's "vast" oil deposits.....her control over them is rather limited at the moment. u should note, too, that the US is spending HUGE amounts of money on its occupation of iraq...indeed, it's expected to spend 200 BILLION dollars over the next 10 years alone (assuming the UN doesn't step in, of course, to share the burden). really, it has little (immediate) financial gain to benefit from....even in the long run, the US stands to gain little , given that iraq's supply of oil is damn near crippled.

 

that's not to say, however, that the US's decision to invade iraq was fuelled solely by altruistic concerns...

 

 

 

Think dude. What's the point in spending billions if you don't get a bigger compensation? Goodness?

exactly. whenever a country makes a decision, it first determines whether the decision is made in its best interests. as selfish as this may sound, it's really good & proper. the liberation of iraq WAS in the US's best interests....but not really in the oil context. potential benefits include the creation a whole new market for not only america but the world as a whole, the removal of a dictator whose very existence & supposed control of weapons of mass destruction has been a thread to peace & stability for a long time, the destruction of a body which has been known to fund terrorist activities in the past & many others besides.

 

so yeah, oil wasn't really a factor in the US's decision to invade iraq. potential gain for the US, however, was....and as such, both of u guys r, to some extent, right....so u can let go of each other's necks now....

 

 

and imyourdad....is that really a picture of you as avatar? coz if it is, i'm gonna start siding with u a lot more often.....

[lukeiamyourdad]

ben-*cough*yes*cough*certainly not*cough*Famke Janssen*cough

 

 

I agree with most of the things you said.

 

 

Heard Bush's speech yesterday? What a load of crap. Litterally telling all the countries to send money and get their soldiers killed for absolutely no gain.

 

As for market it does open up for everyone else but the United States will get a preferencial price over oil meaning it will cost them less to get the oil from the iraqi while selling them for probably the same amount as in any other countries. In other words, the oil companies will make more cash.

 

I've never understood actually why Bush so wanted everyone to back him up before the war. France, Germany and Russia are actually not a target and them helping just might make them hated by the extremists. I think they're just looking over heir people.

[devineman]

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[TK-8252]

The UN is the most worthless, full of crap organization that is just about as useful as the senate in The Phantom Menace.

[lukeiamyourdad]

The UN as innefective as it is, is the only crap left of unity this world has.

 

I guess people don't understand how a business man thinks. You don't spend for nothing...

[CCKieran]

The UN as innefective as it is, is the only crap left of unity this world has.

 

Probably a typo..... but I agree with both ways. The UN is the only scrap of unity this world has left, but it has no power.

If the UN had power, however, we may be dealing with an empire of our own. The only way so diverse a group could agree enough to form a government would be through a central leader. This is starting to sound too much like the plot for Phantom Menace, so I'll let it go now.

 

I'll just start this idea off, if someone agrees/disagrees, they can carry it further I'll probably respond.

[devineman]

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[jedispy]

I've been out of this post for a while so I'm not sure if anyone else addressed this. The argument about the Iraqi Oil is the worst one ever. So far Gulf War 2 has cost American taxpayers over $80 billion. If this were all about oil, then that would be the worst policy ever, and the President would have been blocked. As it is the U.S. Congress voted for official war funding in support of the Gulf War 2. Here is where the oil argument is flawed:

 

1. It is estimated that there is more oil in the ANWR (Alaska National Wildlife Refuge) than all of Iraq and Kuwait. It would cost U.S. taxpayers only about $15 million dollars to develop oil drilling in the ANWR. This is FAR less than the $80 BILLION that Gulf War 2 cost. Plus we wouldn't have to pay another country for oil. The oil in ANWR is American oil.

 

2. The UN had economic sanctions on Iraq after Gulf War 1. This prevented Iraq from pumping enough oil to their full potential. As it was there was an official UN policy of Oil for Food (even though France provided guns for food Thanks Jaques ChIraq!!! But I digress as this is not relevant here.) Again it comes down to what do we get out of it. Oil is not enough. It would nto have cost the American taxpayers $80 billion to have the UN lift the sanctions.

 

So as you can see, the oil argument is of no worth and full of fallacies.

 

It would make better sense to say that America wants (needs really) an economically strong ally in the Middle East. And this is what I believe is what is in it for us, not that it is a bad thing. America does need a powerful ally in the Middle East other than Israel. Iraq is completely ideal

 

for this.

 

1. The Baath party established a fairly secular state. Unlike many of the countries in the Middle East, Baathist Iraq had a form of "seperation of mosque and state." Christians were actually allowed to openly practice their religion (within reason of course. Iraq still was not a free nation.)

 

2. Iraq has the potential for becoming the Switzerland of the Middle East. They have the most developed oil drilling system. Economically they can potentially stand on their own....as soon as they get on their own two feet.

 

Jedispy

[Lynk Former]

Star Wars people, Star Wars. If you wanna go in that direction start a thread in the cantina or something.

[lukeiamyourdad]

You could simply move the thread Lynk.

 

There is no doubt about this that oil wasn't the only reason. Saying that it i is flawed.

 

The american conservatist established a way that George Bush follows.

 

America must still be as powerful as it is today in 50 years and have a grip on the world economy forever.

 

 

1. It was a fact long ago that Iraq was the most advanced and open minded middle eastern country, giving women rights to go to school, drive a car, etc.

It is also a fact that Saddam hates the muslim extremists and they also dislike him for giving rights to women and such. So technically he wouldn't give a damn WMD to Al-quaida or whatever.

 

2. The middle east is go up into flames not long from now and the US knows this fact. Saudi Arabia has a lot of terrorists on its territory and is one of the most integrist countries of the middle east. If Bush' crusade was to liberate people, it would be "liberating" Saudi Arabia.

 

 

Anyway, people should look at this a bit differently. There are three factions in Iraq: the kurds, the sunnites and the chiites.

 

Now in the time of Saddam, he held a gun to everyone's head and told them to play nice with each other. Now that he's gone, the threat of a civil war between all the different factions flies over their head. It could turn out worse then people think.

 

That kind of civil war will lead to massacres that the americans will not be able to stop. It's gonna be worse then it was before

[Jedi_Monk]

Star Wars does borrow a lot from the rise of the Roman Empire and the German Third Reich. That said, Lucas is not telling a dead story, the story of the Roman Republic becoming an Empire set in space, he is telling a living story, a story that is relevant to all democracies now and for the rest of Earth's history, because history, for whatever reason, tends to repeat itself. Democracies elect bad leaders, bad leaders exploit the fear of the people, bad leaders use this fear to consolidate their power, and with this power they become dictators. Now, if the public knows these steps from point A (democracy) to point B (dictatorship), then they can undercut the would-be dictator. I believe that is the thrust of the Prequels, telling a cautionary tell that is accessable to a mass audience.

 

Because it can happen here, people. Democracy may be the best system of government mankind has come up with, but it is about the most fragile. It relies on the people taking a full role in how the country is governed, and if there comes a time when the people surrender that role to their leaders, then the game could really be up. Terrorism and war are two historical ways that leaders have exploited the people and taken their rights and power from them, and we live in an era of terrorism and war.

 

Lucas wrote his first drafts of Star Wars when Watergate was in the news. According to Mythmaking, Lucas was heavily influenced in his creation of the Empire by the fear that Nixon would use the military to remain in power even if he was impeached and convicted in the Congress. (In fact, even sources inside the White House didn't know what would happen if Nixon was impeached according to the PBS documentary Watergate Plus 30.) In that, the Empire was heavily influenced by events happening in the US.

[devineman]

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[Lynk Former]

No i won't move it i'll close it, current affairs are aright to talk about, if you want to do that make a thread in the senate and talk about it there. Here it's Star Wars and it's influences. NOT what's happening in Iraq and how much we love/hate/support Bush.

[Jaden Quade]

Has much as the intentions are honorable, I think the main reason for "freeing Iraq" is the oil. The main reason for helping Kuwait was oil. The US doesn't seem to care a lot about countries with no oil or any useful ressources. Of course you would ask "There's the WMD and the freeing of people". Then hmmm...go free the following countries out of tyranny and oppression: Tibet, Cuba, Iran, etc. The list goes on and on...

 

i agree completely!!! GO AL GORE!!!!!!!!!! lol

 

 

 

[Remirol Nacnud]

I didn't read most of the above btw.

 

The US shares about as much similarity with the empire as any other powerful country.

 

The US just does the sort of things that you consider 'acting like the empire' more than other countries because they're such a big country.