Kurgan Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 My other major concern then would be kick spamming, which is probably an even more serious issue than backstab spamming. Kicks should be risky to attempt, be blockable and be a tactical element to duels, not a source of heavy damage in and of themselves or something that can be spammed with little risk to the kicker. There's another area where Raven's apparent reponse to the whining is not to remove it, but to add MORE such moves. Note that there are at least half a dozen kick moves now (so far we only know of ones for the saber staff though... unconfirmed whether normal flip kicks exist for other types). People who complain about "cheapness" are going to have a lot more to complain about. Hopefully Raven will just ignore these whiners though... and the real gamers will simply learn counters to the moves and play it like a game, not a role playing movie. Remember that unless you want sabers to be ONLY a one on one dueling weapon, you have to allow for a certain number of "cheap" moves for the sake of usefulness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jadenkorr Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BrainStorm Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 and the real gamers will simply learn counters to the moves and play it like a game, not a role playing movie. So what you are you saying that people who like to role play with JKII and will do the same with JA are not "real" gamers? LOL, j/k. We don't need another one of those threads... I think a game as rich as JKII allowed both kinds of gameplay and that was what made it so special. I see no reason why JA cannot be the same. "Identify, adapt, overcome." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 So what you are you saying that people who like to role play with JKII and will do the same with JA are not "real" gamers? Exactly so. I am saying that Role Players are NOT playing the game as it was designed or intended to be played. None of the games in the Dark Forces/Jedi Knight series are RPG's and it's a misuse of the game to consider them to be. It would be different if these folks had created some elaborate RPG mod, but they haven't. They're just pretending as they walk around with their sabers off and chat and use emotes! Play a real RPG (pencil & paper or something like Baldur's Gate II) sometime and you'll see the difference... Here's an example. Imagine some people bought a Chess Set, then they used the pieces to play "Doll house." They would make up stories and use the pieces to make believe how the King was having an affair with one of the pawns and the Queen was stealing the Knight's stuff while the Bishops were drinking tea and singing sonnets. It's the same idea.. because you're taking a game that was clearly designed for one specific purpose, and using it for something completely unrelated. I mean, you're free to do what you want, but it's completely silly, and you can't claim that it was part of the "genius" of the designers of the game to "include this feature" because it's not a feature! Do people role play that they are monsters and soldiers having a slumber party in Quake 3 Arena? Just because it's Star Wars people seem to think that its okay to treat it like EverQuest. ; p Sorry for the rant. I know you were just kidding, but I just had to throw that in there... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darklighter Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Originally posted by jadenkorr No one-word/smilie-only posts please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 Kurgan, I think you are missing the point. What must be kept in mind is that this is a *Star Wars* game and, even more specifically, a Star Wars game that focuses on playing a Jedi Knight and no doubt getting in lightsaber duels. It's not just some random "game", or some generic FPS. So it should be designed to be as authentic, as much as technology will allow, to Star Wars as it can. Just because there are many players that want the lightsaber dueling mechanics to be accurate, doesn't make us not "real gamers". And I'm not talking about playing the game like it was an RPG. I'm just talking about the lightsaber dueling mechanics being authentic. And that's all I'm talking about. And most of the people I've seen post here on this forum about improvements in the accuracy of dueling system are strictly talking about authentic fighting mechanics, not about trying to RPG some character. It's like when playing MOH or the new Call of Duty game coming out later this year. If someone would like to see, say, the BAR's bullet dispersion modeled more accurately, does that mean they are trying to make a WWII FPS into a WWII RPG? No, it just means they want the darn gun to work more like it really should! This has nothing to do with trying to turn the game into an RPG. And the exact same thing applies to JA. I'm certainly not trying to play the JK games like an RPG, but I do expect Raven to make the lightsaber duels as authentic as they can to Star Wars. That's the whole point to making a Star Wars game about being a Jedi Knight, to make the battles (and the mechanics that govern those battles) be like it would really be in Star Wars. Maybe there are some that don't care if the gameplay in any Star Wars game ever made is just some arcadey joke, with little resemblance to anything that actually happens in Star Wars, but there are many others who *do* want the lightsaber duels to be as authentic as possible. And that is perfectly obtainable while playing the game in FPS mode, it doesn't have to be an RPG to be *accurate*. See the difference? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 What's going on with the forum, it seems to crash constantly? One minute it's working fine, you come back a half hour later and it's down again. This has been going on for like a week now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Master William Posted September 1, 2003 Share Posted September 1, 2003 I already know, and do not expect the sabers to be hitting perfectly or the duels to be precise. It's just swinging around with sabers and just hoping you're gonna win. That's how it is the mostly, but you can pull in some special tricks to make it more accurate and more ''making sense''. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 How do you know what it's like, JA isn't even out yet? I certainly hope it's more realistic than random swinging doing you any good. It has to better than that, even JKII with it's faults had duels where tactics mattered. Random swinging should just get you killed fast, if you're dueling a skilled opponent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alegis Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 I hope however, if there is a huge disadvantage between the different saber types (like single not strong enough) or more ppl using the katas instead of swinging, that THEN a patch would be released to fix it...not in the first weeks, but after a month orso...the saber things is IMO a bit of experimenting for raven bugs should be fixed immediately...I still know a few for JO 1.04 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 You know, all this stuff about saber accuracy and hit damage and what-have-you is all well and good...but instead of people constantly asking for 'patches' to fix these things the way 'they' want, why can't they simply make a mod? Oh...hang on...that's what people did with Jedi Outcast. Again, it's entirely down to player preference. I don't think anyone here would disagree with you wanting to play the game the way you like - and if you like more 'realistic' saber combat, and want to turn it into some kind of Jedi simulator...fine, go ahead. You can make a mod with like-minded people and play it to death. But don't ask the developers to make those kinds of sweeping changes permanent for the majority of players...because you have to remember there are lots of people who want to play the game as it is[/i]. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dunedain Posted September 2, 2003 Share Posted September 2, 2003 Yeah, but why not make JA accurate "as it is", right out of the box? Doesn't Raven have the skill to design an authentic lightsaber dueling system? Why does everything have to be designed for newbs who can't fight their way out of a paper bag? Why not just put a *toggle* right in the main game interface for servers who want to run with low saber damage and stuff like that for newbs, fine by me. But Raven should respect the wishes of dedicated JK fans who have been buying and playing these JK games for 6 years now and give them some serious lightsaber dueling mechanics. Not fake arcade stuff, but the real thing, as best you can with current technology. And it's not like realistic lightsaber duels aren't exciting. Just watch Star Wars, that's the canon and gold standard we aspire to. And those duels are very exciting and dynamic. Just keep it authentic to that and duels will be fast paced, intense AND true to Star Wars. If someone doesn't have the skill to play at that level, then either get better or go play on servers that have that relaxed difficulty setting. But we shouldn't all be forced to play at the newb level; Raven should supply an expert realism lightsaber server mode for the many long time fans that have been asking for it for years now. I mean, if we can't even count on Lucasarts and Raven who are a making a FPS specifically about playing a Jedi Knight to *finally* give us an authentic Star Wars Jedi Knight vs Sith lightsaber dueling system, then what are we paying them for? They've had *years* to tune, adjust, polish and correct this stuff! Besides, most experienced players who've played JKII that I've seen want the duels more authentic, for example, making lightsabers be very deadly when they hit you, like they were when JKII first came out. There are a ton of established Raven customers who want this and have been waiting a year and a half for this. Isn't it about time Raven delivered on this? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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