ebelleudy Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Ever tried the long jump when wielding dual sabers ? The left saber goes right into your throat !!! Seriously, there are plenty of clipping bugs like this one, when the saberstaff hilt goes into a wall or such... it really shows a lack of polishing the product... ebelleudy PS : when will we have a FPS with real environment interaction ? I'd like to be able to push/destroy/porce throw all those crates, or cut with my saber a column to have the roof collapse... just because that's how physics work and not because the prgorammer thought of this option. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by ebelleudy PS : when will we have a FPS with real environment interaction ? I'd like to be able to push/destroy/porce throw all those crates, or cut with my saber a column to have the roof collapse... just because that's how physics work and not because the prgorammer thought of this option. When you make that game yourself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightsaberboy Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 half life 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C'jais Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by Lightsaberboy half life 2 Halflife2 cannot do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defalc Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by C'jais Halflife2 cannot do this. Actually, it can. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 I'll say when computers can produce in realtime what the CG rendering of ILM can do ^.^ And in Half-Life 2 it's probably due to a scripted event, I don't see a roof spontaniously collapsing because you blasted away most of it's supports with a rocket launcher. I'd almost say Red Faction but there are still loads of walls in there flagged as "indestructible" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
defalc Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt And in Half-Life 2 it's probably due to a scripted event, I don't see a roof spontaniously collapsing because you blasted away most of it's supports with a rocket launcher. Nope. It's the Havoc physics engine, actually. And you can see wooden docks spontaneously dumping people and objects on it into the water after the dock legs/columns are destroyed, in a realistic manner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StormHammer Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 When it comes to structures that can be destroyed or at least damaged, then those are simply designed that way in the level - and you don't usually see that many things that can be destroyed in this way. Even in Half-Life 2 there will be buildings and other structures that you won't be able to destroy - but many of the levels will be designed in such a way that the player can take advantage of destroying certain things in opportune places. You won't necessarily have to, but the choice is there if you want to. So a lot comes down to the developer actually setting out to make an environment more interactive. Interaction sometimes does not actually have any bearing on completing the level, or indeed, completing your objectives. But it helps to bring an environment to life, and react in a more realistic way to the player, which helps them suspend their 'disbelief'. Unfortunately, that obviously was not one of the design goals for JA. You can't operate any consoles other than those which assist you in your objectives. You can't open any doors other than those that lead you to your objective (or may contain the odd powerup). You can't destroy crates...and there simply isn't any furniture around... at least in the demo. I find this somewhat disappointing. I have to agree with the sentiment that it's ridiculous you can't cut open crates and things - even if it was similar to the predefined destruction of the crates in the original Half-Life. Not being able to move crates around is also a major oversight, IMHO. And it's not as if the engine cannot handle this sort of thing, because Raven themselves had moveable and destructable crates, barrels, furniture and other objects in Hexen 2. Not everything was destructable, but the ability to smash down a bookcase to reveal a hidden chamber was well implemented in that game. I would have preferred to see this kind of thing in Jedi Academy. I don't really care about things being dissected realistically by the lightsaber - but having things explode or fall to predefined pieces as you touch them would be good to see. Smash a crate to pick up a health pack or ammo. Push a crate into your enemies. How cool would it have been if you could have toppled a few of the smaller crates over onto the Merc's heads in the Tatooine level, for example? That's a missed opportunity, IMHO, and could have added more depth to the gaming experience. As always...the same problems start to become apparent - but it's not the way they designed the game, so... *shrugs* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by Lightsaberboy half life 2 I think you guys will be disappointed... Originally posted by StormHammer So a lot comes down to the developer actually setting out to make an environment more interactive. Interaction sometimes does not actually have any bearing on completing the level, or indeed, completing your objectives. But it helps to bring an environment to life, and react in a more realistic way to the player, which helps them suspend their 'disbelief'. Unfortunately, that obviously was not one of the design goals for JA. It is nice to have, but because of the short time Raven had to develop this game, I can understand why there isn't as much of this as people might like. I'd rather they take the time to get the lightsaber fighting and so on really good before that worry to much about that other stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pedro The Hutt Posted September 11, 2003 Share Posted September 11, 2003 Originally posted by StormHammer I would have preferred to see this kind of thing in Jedi Academy. I don't really care about things being dissected realistically by the lightsaber - but having things explode or fall to predefined pieces as you touch them would be good to see. Smash a crate to pick up a health pack or ammo. Push a crate into your enemies. How cool would it have been if you could have toppled a few of the smaller crates over onto the Merc's heads in the Tatooine level, for example? That's a missed opportunity, IMHO, and could have added more depth to the gaming experience. I miss that too, ever since such features were mentioned to be available in the originally planned Obi-Wan game for the PC. But oh well, perhaps someday ^.^ Technology is always advancing and Star Wars remains popular ^.^ So there's odds of that occuring someday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iblis Reborn Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 if you could move all the crates and stuff or destroy them you wouldnt be able to get into places that you need those crates to get to or you might be able to bypass entire sections of a level and i dont think they wanted that at all true at least making some dammage to them could have been kewl but im not too sad about it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sabre9 Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Originally posted by Pedro The Hutt I'll say when computers can produce in realtime what the CG rendering of ILM can do ^.^ ... I'd almost say Red Faction but there are still loads of walls in there flagged as "indestructible" Half of the reason is because of lag... not only would we need Cray 843's, but we'd all need T500 lines also... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rad Blackrose Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Glad I wasn't the only one thinking about the bomb otherwise known as Red Faction. I just had to roll my eyes when they were touting GeoMOD as a revolutionary tool... Yeah, uh huh. And as far as the saber clipping goes... Sheesh, not everything is going to be perfect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cayqel Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 ow Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuahtemoc Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 oof thats gotta hurt. but then again this is star wars and u can prolly get a proshetic neck just like lukes hand lol jk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurgan Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 Yeah, I remember those early videos and the stuff they showed us at E3 for Obi-Wan pc. Much more interaction than we're seeing with JA so far. It seems instead they chose to focus on BODY PHYSICS... after all, you can now grip people's dead bodies around and toss them everywhere, with the corpses controting in all sorts of (not always realistic, but you get the picture) ways. The the bodies bend with the environment, so they can be drapped over boxes, or leaning against buildings. You can shoot bodies and they display saber damage and blaster scoring as well as flop around and twitch from your attacks. Dismemberment was toned down for the demo, but we know there are commands in there to make it as gruesome as JK2 was, so that feature is still there. They obviously figured we'd be less interested in smashing hundreds of crates with our crowbars like in half life and spend most of our time slicing up baddies and throwing their bodies around with our Lightsabers/Force. Also, did anybody notice how you can force pull powerups and stuff around? Like if you don't need a health pack, you can still pull it and it will bounce around and clank on the ground. Unfortunately, they all use the same sound effect (at least in the demo) of the saber handle hitting the ground. Still, better than nothing! They obviously put a lot of work into the game, just not into the same things you guys wanted. It sucks, but I can live with it. And you're right about Red Faction and other games.. there's no way to make it "perfectly realistic" or make EVERYTHING destructable, because then you could cut your way out of the world, and how realistic would that be? Plus all of that stuff would just serve to boost system requirements and increase the development cycle.. obviously risks they weren't willing to take with this game. Half Life 2 might end up being the greatest thing since sliced bread, but it's been in development hell for years... like a lot of over-hyped pc games. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chuahtemoc Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 speaking of which i did something weird today. I grip-killed some guy. Then went i went to grip the other guy, i ended up picking up the dead body instead. i forcepushed after realeasing grip, and hurled both the corpse and the other guy over the edge of the cliff. i wish i had a screenshot lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spinalcraft Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 PS : when will we have a FPS with real environment interaction ? I'd like to be able to push/destroy/porce throw all those crates, or cut with my saber a column to have the roof collapse... just because that's how physics work and not because the prgorammer thought of this option. I dont think games will ever have that kinda feature anytime soon.. If you want incredible realism, go outside and take a walk.. Even if games have incredible physics.. I mean, I could just chop through walls and skeedadle through all the enemies Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
master_thomas Posted September 12, 2003 Share Posted September 12, 2003 A perfectly realistic, interactive world has several severe technical issues. I can say this, as a jk2 mapper. A possibility would be to make detail brushes (which are exactly what they sound like) destructable and interactive, while structural brushes (outer walls) aren't. Otherwise, there'd be severe issues, like leaving the level and falling through an infinity of space (use noclip and leave the outer wall and you'll see what I mean). Also, that could cause issues with portals, which are created during the compilation. Finally, even with only detail brushes being affected like this, a JK2 (or JA) map with similar realism is possible.....if you add 5+ gigabytes worth of scripts. Such a world in a video game would be very, very, impracticle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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