Darth Windu Posted December 3, 2003 Share Posted December 3, 2003 Originally posted by Frozted_MM's 1. I say kill the trenches off its sounds stupid really stupid 2. rebel troops will be way overpowered for starters. Its going to be crap seeing them trench themselves 3. in like 30 secs anyways. Drop the trench garbage and its all good 1. Not possible. In my template, the Rebel Alliance are the only civ that lacks Mechs, and so the Rebel infantry, as their only ground forces, have to have a strong defence to be able to repel mechs with the help of the Rebel Airforce. 2. Thats the point! 3. well, 30 secs is actually pretty long, it would be less than that. Besides, if i dropped the trench idea, the Rebels would be very underpowered, and to give them mechs would be to take away uniqueness from the template. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 4, 2003 Author Share Posted December 4, 2003 Windu: you have avoided answering my question about the fact yours are personal holes, not trenches. Do they "entrench" in a line when you press the hotkey, are just all over place as though they were Zerglings burrowing? Someone please comment on the other aspects I listed above with little 's before I do the Naboo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Windu your tempalte has no balance at all so really this doesnt apply to you cause your tempalte is all over the place. Overpowering rebel troops when troopers are the main weapon in battle is the stupidest idea in a long list of stupid ideas coming from you windu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Frozted - i dont recall saying that 'troopers are the main weapon in battle'. If you had actually bothered to read my template properly you would have noticed that players will need to concentrate on all groups of units in order to win. As the Rebels dont have mechs while all other civs do, the Rebel infantry needed to be beefed up. Vostok - havent really decided yet. Individually, a trooper will just did a hole for him/herself but if in a group, they would likely build a trench for the extra fields of fire and realism. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 4, 2003 Share Posted December 4, 2003 Your template is so unbalanced its not funny. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 5, 2003 Author Share Posted December 5, 2003 Windu, speaking from a professional software programmer's point of view, there is no way you can make the "group trenching" idea work without a huge amount of micro. Mine is simple with a click and drag to build. Also Frozted is right, Troopers are the main force in war which is why every civ has them and there are so many of them. And while making a certain civ strong in he Troopers is okay, making Troopers powerful enough to compete with Mechs is wrong. here need to be mech-destroying specialist troopers, but to make the whole Trooper class good vs mechs is not balanced. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Frozted - thats for that detailed, in-depth review... Vostok - 1. i dont see how. In 'Sid Meyers Gettysburg' and others you can tell your forces to change formation from column to line easily. All that would happen here is that the troopers in a group would change formation into a line, and then entrench 2. Troopers are not the main force in war. Mechs, Troopers, Aircraft and Ships are as important as each other, and without utilising a combined arms team you wont win. 3. I didnt say the Rebel troopers would be able to compete with Mechs. The main use of entrenching would be to enable them to hold off the mechs long enough to bring their Airforce into action. 4. I have anti-mech infantry, and they can be entrenched. As i said in the above point, the Rebels DO NOT have an anti-mech bonus. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Yep making troops able to take on other troopers more effectively is one matter but able to take on mechs is just not good at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 6, 2003 Author Share Posted December 6, 2003 Windu, I'm not saying you can't automatically change formation. But which way would the new line face? If you have just a mob or even a square of troopers, there are several different angles they could possibly reform into, and since the comp has no way of knowing which way they need to face it's quite conceivable they won't entrench right. Since you can't simply click and drag where the trench should exactly be, this method is very flawed, and not only could it take several goes to get the hang of, the infinite possible situations in which you could use the trench may make the auto line-up procedure entirely unpredictable. My click and drag is one entirely predictable, no mess procedure. Yours is an error prone, unpredictable procedure that gives the player less control over exactly what their forces do. I won't argue the balance points because I feel something small like this can probably be easily balanced in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 6, 2003 Share Posted December 6, 2003 Frozted - try reading posts before replying to them, it helps... Vostok - you could always make them make a square or circular trench. Besides, the AI isnt my responsibility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 Okay, so the AI isn't your responsibility - so if this was a real game you were designing the guy who is responsible for the AI would say it can't be done adequately. Just take a moment to think how frustratingly hard it would be to entrench a group of troopers your way, then consider mine and how it is just as easy as placing walls. Besides you still haven't responded to point 6 above which is the major disadvantage of your method. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 This trench thing is still not good at all. Whats stopping someone from getting a sheild up sheilded trenches and troops inside nice army at the back of the trench. Can anybody say OVERPOWERED!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Huh? Well, I think trenches should be available late in the game. That way they won't be overpowered. Besides, some mechs, a few aircrafts and that's it the trench is gone. It's not really different from walls and turrets in GB1... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 Yeah Frozted. How is it any different to walls currently? I've made a couple of changes. Luke's Dad, to counter the problem you saw earlier with respect to building Medium Transports, instead of giving the Alliance Centre more pop I've instead added a building called the Support Centre, which builds Resource Skiff, Power Droid and Medium Transport, allowing the Alliance Centre to concentrate on Astromech building. Check it out here. Someone comment on my Astromechs in X-Wings and Y-Wings already. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darth Windu Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Frozted - whats your point? If an Imperial player had a group of AT-AT's behind a shield would you be yelling OVERPOWERED? Vostok - as i said, AI isnt my responsibility, but im sure the guys at LA are good enough to come up with a solution. As for point 6, you are right, my infantry cant move around in the trench, but really i dont think that matters - besides, the rebels werent moving around much in them anyway. As for your astromech idea, i dont like (but then you already knew i was going to say that) because to me it's too much micro. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Nevertheless Windu, it's gonna be awful. As for Astromechs, it's a bit of micro but it does add some special features... Perhaps a simple research with making the cost of thos fighters higher(cost of fighter +cost of 1 astromech) might be simpler. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 But shouldn't they all have walls? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 Windu, Luke's Dad - Hmm, you're right, too much micro. What about if you just garrison an Astromech in the Airfield itself? Then Airfields with Astromechs in can build Astromech-equipped X-Wings and Y-Wings, for a bit extra cost. Frozted - Yes, all civs have walls, and Rebels get the Trench in addition. Trenches can't be built from the start of the game but become available mid-game. All - Royal Naboo are now up so check them out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 I don't see the point in an Architect they just place buildings? Kinda weird but anyways. "The Rebels' most valued resource is Wealth" found a small glitch Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 Just thought the Architect added a bit of uniqueness while emphasising the fact that the Naboo would be the most formal about how their towns are built. Thanks for the glitch-finding . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clonedjedi Posted December 7, 2003 Share Posted December 7, 2003 Kinda makes them vulnerable especially when you want to set up a forward base. All the enemy has to do is kill the Architect and thats it the workers are useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 7, 2003 Author Share Posted December 7, 2003 Actually I just realised how annoying it would be to use the Architect. So I've changed the way he works. Setting up forward bases is still a bit of a problem, but if you bring sufficient protection or just mount him in a fast transport it should be okay. I've also made it that you don't need the Architect for Resource Points because that would be very limiting. Check out the new way the Architect works. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Any more comments? (Thinly disguised bump) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lukeiamyourdad Posted December 11, 2003 Share Posted December 11, 2003 Yeah one thing. You gave the Naboo a grenadier. I don't see why. It's not very naboo-ish... I kept the grenadier for the rebels since at the battle of hoth, you saw a rebel trooper running out of the trench with some round shaped object attached(sp?) to his back. It could be a demolition trooper though...I thought it was a mortar or something... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Admiral Vostok Posted December 11, 2003 Author Share Posted December 11, 2003 Okay I'll get rid of the grenadier. He was mainly for anti-building infantry, but now that I think about it he would probably make Naboo Troopers better than they should be. He's gone. Anything else? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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