[fk]myth. Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 It probobly will, it probobly won't. What I want to know is why Raven takes an amazing competetive/non-competetive game (despite a few bugs) like JO and make a sequel that takes competetive gaming and slams it in the ground. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Side Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 catalyst....go hide man,we are not talkin bout server filled with people named "aznPeace"...aka newbie holding the flag Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[fk]myth. Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by Catalyst Thats interesting, I just did a CTF with 16 people and both games ended in decent amount of time...5/4 and 5/2. I dont see how kick would help you stop anyone at all if you are chasing them...perhaps its about time you people stop crying and try new tactics. Bro, know your audience. We all play CTF with a PASSION. We know when the game has gone to far, and this time, s/o CTF has been, to put it in terms we can all understand, owned! Playing with 16 players is one thing, but playing with 16 skilled players who have played CTF since the game (jo) was out is ANOTHER thing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Well Razorace, you're right on the one point. I don't consider myself an elite player by any means, and the chances of getting two games is slim to none, but I figured I'd throw that out there. At the same time, it's quite hard not to sound "elite" when a discussion about game issues is constantly bombarded by useless comments like "kick sucks". No reasoning, no logical "balance issues" are involved with it. It's just a complaint about something that the said player is incapable of performing. On the other hand, I feel the comments of the other players, while sometimes perhaps whining (myself included), is still based on some kind of logical reasoning or desire, as opposed to just "it suxs". The people who were interested in a Jedi like atmosphere and zero competition have gotten there way hands down almost every time. I feel the more competitive, or 'elite' could use just a little bit of recognition, or better... some MERCY from Raven on this one. I also don't see WHY giving a patch that makes two games would be so wrong. Just a toggle that sets a bunch of default CVARS and the kick system put back in would work. I know, it's not THAT simple to set it up, but seriously.... just a bunch of default CVARS and the kicks and such put in, and the ability to switch between one default set and another. this way, both crowds are somewhat happy. When discussions happen, people will know which Default game they are playing, and it gets balanced accordingly for Competition style or Standard. Perhaps it's more work, but at the same time, perhaps less backlash as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by Catalyst Thats interesting, I just did a CTF with 16 people and both games ended in decent amount of time...5/4 and 5/2. I dont see how kick would help you stop anyone at all if you are chasing them...perhaps its about time you people stop crying and try new tactics. Maybe you should try playing a game with vet JK2 ff/so CTF players who know what they are doing. The score will stand at 0-0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[fk]myth. Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Nice post shaft. Since JO the non competetive community has whined about everything, from Kick Lam3rZ!!11 to Pull Throw Kick whorez. Now it looks like this time they've gotten more than a piece of what they wanted, they got the whole damn cake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Competitive, profesional gameplay? "We ctf players"? What the f-uck are you all talking about, with you all i mean wheiner dog, rumor, traj, diverse, comm and all those dorks that agreed 100% with this thread. My god specially rumor, man you have no shame, you need a good but-**** to settle down. I wont track all the stupiditys you all have said while i was reading the thread. Where exactly did you play JO, in lan? If so, then download a mod so you and your clanmates can play it at will. You really ****ed the exitment i had for JA. People played JO at their homes, in public servers. If you consider yourself competitive or profesional because you have a clan or because you played/won another dorky tournament in any of the 50 states US has, well you probably be right, you are pros, but it doesnt mean you play better than me, i could kick your ass or any of your friends anytime, it means you are official nerds, who officially played JO for too long and now cant handle a new game. Every person who played JO for more than a day is absolutely disapointed for JA (the kicks, the damage, all that). The people who said "play the game", "just wait for a mod" and all that, is very disapointed indeed, its just that they move on. Is really JA MP that bad (i dont have it), but if it is then send a formal letter to RAven with the signature of ALLLLLLLLLLLLL the people complaining and telling them how you want the game to be, do something important and more trascendant tham crying and dreaming they make a patch. I agree with the first post in this thread of whiner dog, but no the kicks JO had, cause they were simply unreal, but the staff kicks for all clasess is a good idea. Yes it was fun to pull kick a noob and not letting him stand up, yes it took skill, but do you all really want to have that kind of skill. Well i am tired of that, and i dont wana get skilled in any of that crap again. If a patch must be made, it must be a well balanced one, that has corrected all the wrongs and bads, and also, one that doesnt add more wrongs and bads. To do that they should take their time to make really good patch so that in theory it wont need another (in theory). I think, i made my point, if not, ill post again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by g//plaZma Maybe you should try playing a game with vet JK2 ff/so CTF players who know what they are doing. The score will stand at 0-0. Have fun, idiot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[fk]myth. Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 By competetive players I think we mean people who actually COMPETE instead of playing in ffa_bespin private dueling and amsitting like the other half of the JO community. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Your point is duly noted, and once again, i must question if you were even processing what was being said. First off, when they say professional... yes, there is a thing going around where some "clans" are actually sponsored. Hence, professional. You can't be sponsored if you don't stay active, hence professional. Second, at no point in time did anyone say that being in a clan meant "elite" status. Perhaps people come off as a elite, but in this case, I think it's safe to say that they are elite at what they do. Third, they obviously do not play on a lan. They are all in different clans, and they compete against each other. I don't know how regularly it is done, but they compete, and they do serious competition, they play to win, they tweak the game for what it's worth. Once again, your comments are foiled. Fourth, your comment about kicking their butts.... sigh... you also fit into that category of "gamer with large ego". If you could kick their butts, perhaps you would seek them out and kick it. Just to give you a little back history on these people. They RARELY, if EVER, post on these forums to present useless claims about gameplay issues. I have never SEEN an fk member say "i think we should look like jedi more and have cooler saber effects" nor have I seen rumour or the like ever comment on something that had nothing to do with any kind of gameplay, like something about cosmetics. Fifth, your comment was nothing more than a flame, even though the thread says specifically that you should have a discussion and not flame. So far, you came in with the following comments. 1.) I haven't even played the game yet. 2.) I don't play s/o ctf competitively (therefore pretty much exempting your comment about destroying all of them. It's quite illogical of you to believe that a bunch of good players that actually practice playing s/o ctf are going to lose to a 'possibly good player' who does not play it regularly. 3.) You guys are just whiners because you don't want to adjust to new tactics. Once again, these guys have explained 1 billion times that they've already given JA and extensive go, and after 1 hour, 2 hours of gameplay, they literally came to STALEMATES. Professionally sponsored clans that play nothing but CTF coming into STALEMATES. This just doesn't happen in a game this soon...... unless JA is ACTUALLY VERY SIMILAR TO JO!! And if that's the case, then their original analysis about removed attack options being a poor decision was correct. 4.) I think the game needs to be balanced. That's the point of this thread as well. S/O CTF just want their version of the game fixed. They're hardly even concerned with what happens to FFA or Siege, etc. Just S/O. Please people.... just please..... stop coming here calling people dorks and then trying to convince that you, the people who don't even COMPETE OR PLAY this game type seriously and consistently, somehow have the insight of the stradegy or know-how that was simply missed. This is not one of your typical "my saber isn't blue enough to fit the movies" threads or "I think that force lightning is too powerful" (it's hardly noticeable in this game). It's a serious, well-thought, well examined argument. Suggestions are needed, not comments about your 'supposed' skillz. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[fk]myth. Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Now there's a post worth reading, couldn't have said it better myself Shaft Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jello123 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 shaft for president....again.. nor have I seen rumour in the like ever comment on something that had nothing to do with any kind of gameplay, like something about cosmetics. laff..oh yeah myth..pm me ur aim for the smoking demos Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
[fk]myth. Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 I dont have AIM, catch me on IRC or MSN Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Well i want to post again to take out a post i felt the need to remember. Originally posted by Rumor I work full time, i'm currently remodelling my house, raising 16 (yes, SIXTEEN) puppies, going to school, learning photoshop/maya/webdesign, and i play sports and go do **** with my friends, plus i hunt and fish and go camping. i'm an Assistant Scoutmaster. After all that he said. Originally posted by Rumor No life my ass. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The most amusing part was when he said "(yes, SIXTEEN)" You can all find that in the 5th page of "MP, omg", if you dont believe it. I hope Rumor you now realize how incredibly pathetic YOU are. You can thank me later Ohh, by the wya, sorry doctor i didnt read your whole post (i stopped in the second paragraph). I am sure you had something to share, hahaha. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doctor Shaft Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 No offense taken, it's always too long, and written poorly anyway. I have no patience to excel in the written word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 You claned noobs and your fruity pms and fruity aids (yeah jello and myth), cya at MP when i get it. Can you please give me your MP names so i can remember you when i pO-wn ya. Than you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by Doctor Shaft No offense taken, it's always too long, and written poorly anyway. I have no patience to excel in the written word. Now thats a cool atitude. Peace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by thelastaod < completely agrees with anything that has been said about JA mp needing fixing. ive heard that the beta did have kicks, so it really shouldnt be that hard to reprogram it into a patch. please do so, as you (RAVEN) are most likely going to loose the competetive portion of the gamers who played jk2 and would like to play jk3. and if they fix it that would mean that possibly several thousand extra copies of the game being sold... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jello123 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 [div3rse.jello] [div3rse] CTF 64.237.35.160 in JO ill be on 2mmrw i could easily report that to a moderator but ill lay off the pansiness Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by Catalyst Thats interesting, I just did a CTF with 16 people and both games ended in decent amount of time...5/4 and 5/2. I dont see how kick would help you stop anyone at all if you are chasing them...perhaps its about time you people stop crying and try new tactics. we aren't talking guns catalyst. and we aren't talking everyday pub s/o ctf, we're talking top clans. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AxVegetA Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 bah JO Who plays JO now?, only noobs as far as i know. The best players quited it a long time ago. Lat time i played JO was in february or march, as i said in another post i destroyed the cd. I was talking about JA, what is "cya at MP, when i get it" means. And dude, report all you want, its not my prob that you are a sisy, unless you are a girl in which case it all makes sense, and therefor i apologise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by AxVegetA Well i want to post again to take out a post i felt the need to remember. After all that he said. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . The most amusing part was when he said "(yes, SIXTEEN)" You can all find that in the 5th page of "MP, omg", if you dont believe it. I hope Rumor you now realize how incredibly pathetic YOU are. You can thank me later Ohh, by the wya, sorry doctor i didnt read your whole post (i stopped in the second paragraph). I am sure you had something to share, hahaha. and you call me pathetic? do you realize how much of a time investment it is when you have to hand feed 16 pups every three hours, since the day they were born? you are the most pathetic excuse for a human being i've ever seen. Dr. Kevorkian really looks to be a nice guy now... do i need to spell out the second part for you in third grade english? it means "<sarcasm> yeah, i have no life </sarcasm>" notice the sarcasm tags. that means i'm being facetious, aka I"M SAYING THE EXACT OPPOSITE. and you seriously have the gall to say i'm pathetic because i have a life that doesn't revolve around a starwars game? get a life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jello123 Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 yes vegeta and here you are posting your opinions about JO and JA when you have NEITHER of the games Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by AxVegetA bah JO Who plays JO now?, only noobs as far as i know. The best players quited it a long time ago. Lat time i played JO was in february or march, as i said in another post i destroyed the cd. I was talking about JA, what is "cya at MP, when i get it" means. And dude, report all you want, its not my prob that you are a sisy, unless you are a girl in which case it all makes sense, and therefor i apologise. wow, i think you must be the biggest tool i've ever seen. i don't report posts that insult me, asshat, i reply to them. and since you obviously have no clue as to who is playing jo, you obviously don't know that ALL of the s/o ctf clans still play it when they aren't spending a couple hours at a time trying to find new ways to kill cappers. not to mention some of the oldschool, for lack of a better word, "elite" ff/so duelers have been playing it as well. you said you could own me, so i challenged you, not my fault that you backed down. go ask your mother for money so you can go to the movies with your friends, i'm sure she doesn't mind giving her live-at-home 30 year old son who has the mental capacity and maturity of a three year old anything he wants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted September 21, 2003 Share Posted September 21, 2003 Originally posted by [fk]myth. And all you people who are saying "Raven did a good job this, Raven is this and that, blah blah blah!" Open your eyes. This games main focus is holding down Attack1 and Alt attack. No combos, specials with force, how are you going to kill your opponent (providing that you want to and aren't an rpger) besides whailing your saber around like an idiot. Stop sucking up to Raven because you idolize them so much and realize that this game is only fun if you want to "Lo0k lik3 d4r7h maUL 4nD sW1nG ju0r s4b3r ar0und!!!11111oneoneone Lik3 in t3h mov13s!!111oneone". And I'm not trying to bash Raven, but this game shouldn't be called an FPS, because competition in this game (with players who know what they're doing and dont blindly walk in katas) is just not going to work. End of story. Don't say 'give it more time' because this is JO with a few more physics (like ****ty roll) some new ub3r k3wl j3d1 lik3 m0ves!!111 (kata) and nerfed combos (kick, grip kick, grip, ptk, etc). What's new to learn? So you're saying that JA is only fun for people who don't care about being competative, and just want to get out and swing lighsabers around and do things resembling what Star Wars fans have seen in the movies. You are also saying that there is no competative value in JA and it just isn't going to work. End of Story. Good. I'm glad we got that settled. Now we can close all these threads because there is no point talking about what might change JA into a competative game, because it isn't going to work. [/rant] I don't mind discussing the issues, but saying that anyone who disagrees with you is sucking up to Raven "because they are our heroes" doesn't help anything (except trying to make yourself feel better). P.S. The non competative community is not the only group who has whined about JO/JA. Originally posted by Doctor Shaft On the other hand, I feel the comments of the other players, while sometimes perhaps whining (myself included), is still based on some kind of logical reasoning or desire, as opposed to just "it suxs". There do seem to be some valid issues and suggestions here, but understand that trying to express these by flaming people and ranting that Raven has ruined everyone lives is not really helping the S/O cause. This problem is magnified because many of us who have been on these boards since the release of JO remember all the initial ranting about very minor things ("I got ownt by DFA!"). So when we see rants about the game right off the bat, the initial reaction is to brush it off as just whining about not being good right away. This thread has improved a bit in this regard, but there are still plenty of threads that where the initial poster just flies off the handle demanding justice be served. I doubt this will gain anyone a patient ear or sympathy, especailly from Raven, who have seen plenty of that before At least if everyone can remain civil, something might get accomplished Originally posted by Doctor Shaft ...comments like "kick sucks". No reasoning, no logical "balance issues" are involved with it. It's just a complaint about something that the said player is incapable of performing. I agree that there has been a lot of "kicks sux" ranting around here. I will try and give you some reasons why I don't like it, at least from my point of view. I more or less represent the casual, semi-competative gamer. As I have said before, I like the JK series because it is Star Wars, not necessarily because it is a FPS. This means that I want the game to at least have a pretty decent SW feel to it. I realize that MP isn't going to be good as SP for this, but it still can make us feel like we are in a big Star Wars battle. I think there are two related reasons why kicks were railed against so much in JO. The first is that kicks of this nature just do not fit into the SW theme, at least not in the constant flip-kicking sense. I mean, the flip-kick just doesn't look good, and no one in SW is kicking all the time. If it was not spammed, and only used once and a while, I don't think anyone would really have had a problem with it. Casual gamers seem to be quite happy with the staff kick, for example. Now, the reason why it was spammed was because it did damage directly to health and knocked people down, thus leave their opponent defenceless. Which pretty much makes it the deadliest weapon in a S/O game. We can all see why it was spammed, but the casual gamers don't like that it is. Now, I can just feel all the competative gamers frothing at the mouth, but just bare with me. Now let me see if I understand the competative S/O CTF player argument. The issue you are having is that basically there is no real way to kill a FC consistently. The lightsaber cannot do the job, so you are left to use other means, which in JO was the flipkick. This gave you the ability to knock someone down, either over ledges or to leave them open to attack. You need this because the lightsaber isn't good enough to kill. Is this more or less what you guys are saying? As I see it, having a flipkick is not inherently what makes CTF work. All you really need is a means to kill the flag carrier. Whether the kill comes from the lightsaber or kick doesn't really matter (and this really goes for any S/O game). Like some of you guys have said, you don't care how it looks. You would be happy with spoons, if that was the most effective thing I guess all I would hope is that whatever the solution would be to make kills easier in S/O games, that it have some basis in SW. Ideally, I'd like to see lightsaber be the effective weapon it really should be. If cranking up the damage makes the difference, I'm all for that. First because it will seem like SW, and secondly because there will be lots of frags. From where I stand I don't see the ability to knock someone down as necessary if you can kill an FC fairly easily without it. But if it is necessary, I'd like to see either the power of push/pull to potentially knock someone down, or if a kick is better, at least make the kick look like a kick, and not make it look like you are running up someones face. Also make the kick less damaging than the lightsaber, as to keep with the SW themes. Also, from my limited experience with the gametype, I don't see team heal (and energize?) as really being necessary for the success of the game. Why not just get rid of it all together? Just some thoughts from Mr. Casual Gamer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.