Solo Saber Nerfed Thread

[Emon]

Originally posted by Ardent

The whole argument that JA is not JO is something he felt necessary to propagate, yet he's willing to use JO to talk about why JA is fine for now? No, sorry, I don't buy hypocrisy at any price.

 

I think maybe you missed his point. I saw Spider AL explaining why premature patches are bad (reckless you might say) by using JO as an example, and explaining the progression of gameplay and various problems in the patches. Either you got lost in that (understandable), or I am missing something else.

 

Bottom line, I think AL realizes JA has problems, but doesn't want Raven to run out and fix it to shut up some whining people on some forums, he thinks they should wait a while (hence the reference to how new gameplay was discovered for JO?), listen to general user input, and then make their own decision on what they feel is best for the game, and patch until it's perfect.

[NITEMARE]

oh boy, i do not envy the poor raven souls. who ever is responsible for reading the forums and forwarding the info to the coders, has a pain in the ass job. probably interns and aprentices have to do this. that can't be enough. it is inpossible to gather enough usable info from such a huge amount of posts. the only real thing would be to play the game yourself. but i doubt, that they have time fo that.

 

well the nerfed sabers will remain, that's for sure. i didn't like this and tried to make them more lethal but it didn't help the gameplay. the reason is "hit detection accuracy". that's beyond modding capabilities so we could only ask raven on this issue. meanwhile we have to accept, that high damage would make the game less fair. if your life depends on 2 swings(red stance did 100 dmg in 1.02), and one misses because the netcode cannot afford singleplayer like accuracy, that's not fair for the attacker. the same with blocking, if you should have blocked a swing, but it didn't, you die!

while that randomness can bring the fun back to public servers where newbies and pro's are playing, it destroys competitive ambitions like ladders and so on...

 

i played JA online for some days and have to agree on the single saber. it is less lethal than the kiddie blades. i used the staff, and voilá, i kicked ass all of a sudden!

i don't get why they totally nerfed the single saber specials. i certainly don't want them back as they were in 1.03. however there is a ballance issue. but a small one...

[Spider AL]

Agreed again, but you simply can't look at things with a black/white cut and dry mentality.

Actually one HAS to look at things with such a mentality, Unnamed. Premature gameplay patching is bad, so one must not prematurely patch gameplay.

 

You agreed with nearly all of my points about the negative effects of JO v.1.03 in your previous post. Frankly, I cannot understand how you can sit there, KNOW all this as I do, and still want to risk sweeping gameplay alterations that will not only affect the gametypes we've been discussing, but ALL gametypes.

 

Those who forget the past being doomed to repeat it, you know?

 

I've said since these threads started that I understand the situation of NG CTFers. But instituting overall changes to help just one sub-group? Not worth it.

 

If I were dissatisfied with FF guns (and there are some things I am dissatisfied with in FF guns don't forget) I wouldn't risk damaging the whole game in the way that 1.03 damaged JO just on the offchance that it might improve that one gametype. I'm no hypocrite, I only expect the same level of maturity from others that I myself am currently trying to demonstrate. I would LOVE to go to Raven's offices and force them to change things in JA at gunpoint, because I KNOW. Not think, I KNOW that my way would WORK.

 

But on past experience, I also know that no single way is free of side effects. And logically and intellectually I know, any changes I make would carry with them unexpected side-effects that would alter EVERYONE's gaming experience, possibly for the worse. So I will wait for at least three more months before I start lobbying for those changes. It's really that simple. I don't consider MYSELF qualified to administer alterations to the game, and I don't think anyone else should consider themselves qualified either. Not a week after release, Unnamed.

 

The whole argument that JA is not JO is something he felt necessary to propagate, yet he's willing to use JO to talk about why JA is fine for now? No, sorry, I don't buy hypocrisy at any price.

Where did you get that, Ardent? I've never claimed that "JA is fine", that's your mistake. I've only ever used JO as an example of how premature patching can ruin aspects of the game for everyone who enjoys it, once again, your mistake. Please read my posts more carefully, I know they're long and probably tedious, but you seem to have missed the point of them. Get your facts straight before you go around implying that people are hypocrites.

 

No premature patching, Raven! Remember JO v.1.03!

 

Emon, exactly what I've been trying to say.

[FK | unnamed]

AL, you neglect to mention all we are asking for is a *toggle cvar.

 

At first yes, a “patch” across the board but after some thought all we want is a cvar like the way guns and force can be enabled or disabled.

 

 

Repeat, not an across the board change.

 

 

Just a simple cvar that let's those servers who run game types that have been made unplayable by these nerfs, the option to reintroduce said elements so as to give those players what they want.

 

 

Can you honestly say a simple 1/0 cvar will destroy game play across the board?

 

Has the damage scale cvar destroyed games for gunners?

 

Of course not.

 

 

And a kick/grip/special+force cost set of cvars would be used no differently than the two most popular cvars in Outcast and Academy:

 

g_weaponDisable 65531

g_ForcePowerDisable XXXX

 

 

Neither of those two cvars destroyed this game, and if anything those two cvars kept this game alive longer than anything else did.

 

Many people would have bailed on Outcast after the first few weeks if there was no such thing as "saber only" servers.

 

There is simply no way to deny that, you refresh a master list and 90% of the servers have guns or some force power disabled.

 

People find a game type they really enjoy and stick with it.

 

 

Any argument that a kick cvar will destroy game play is absurd.

 

I don't like the guns in JO, so when I refresh a list I filter them out.

 

Put a "boot icon" for servers running kicks in the master list and people can do the same.

[Ardent]

Originally posted by Spider AL

But on past experience, I also know that no single way is free of side effects.

 

This could have been more easily understandable if you'd simply written "Yes, I'm a hypocrite." Thanks for playing.

[FK | unnamed]

And as for premature patching, reality is with Halo out in 24 hours, ut2004 in a month or so and Hl2 in a few months, something better be done to keep the “hardcore gamer” element around, and it needs to be done very quick.

 

 

Look at the Outcast launch frenzy.

These forums were jumping, people were excited and raving over the game and it was just a blast.

 

Academy launch?

 

I think I just saw a tumbleweed blow through…

 

The majority of post-release comments on these forums have been almost all disappointing.

 

And I’m not even talking about the competitive players who hate the game; I’m just talking about the significantly large number of “well it was ok but I was kind of disappointed” posts the average Joe is making.

 

Waiting 6 months to do something about this game when you have 3 immense PC releases on the horizon is like telling a terminally ill cancer patient he can’t have a cigarette because it’s bad for him…

[Ardent]

Originally posted by FK | unnamed

Waiting 6 months to do something about this game when you have 3 immense PC releases on the horizon is like telling a terminally ill cancer patient he can’t have a cigarette because it’s bad for him…

 

That's my job. gg!

[Spider AL]

AL, you neglect to mention all we are asking for is a *toggle cvar.

 

At first yes, a “patch” across the board but after some thought all we want is a cvar like the way guns and force can be enabled or disabled.

Oh I think you'll find that some of your more hard-line friends have notably failed to tone down their demands. That aside, I've gone into the two facts that:

 

a: A toggle variable splits the community automatically

 

b: If THIS demand is pandered to, other demands will also be pandered to

 

I haven't seen any of you ask Raven for "a kick toggle variable that's only applicable to NG CTF" yet. If you all did, I wouldn't be here of course.

 

Waiting 6 months to do something about this game when you have 3 immense PC releases on the horizon is like telling a terminally ill cancer patient he can’t have a cigarette because it’s bad for him…

I appreciate the analogy, though equating JA with a terminally ill person doesn't bode well for the future anyway, hence negating the need for ANY gameplay changes at all... But seriously, premature patching, like cigarettes, is bad. Why would one want to indulge in that anyway? it's doubtful whether anything GOOD can come of it.

 

This could have been more easily understandable if you'd simply written "Yes, I'm a hypocrite." Thanks for playing.

Ahh Ardent, if you'd kept up the pretence of actually debating instead of posting petty and meaningless one-line "witticisms" needling BOTH sides in this debate, I might not have seen through you. Curse me for a blind fool. Ladies and gentlemen, may I present Goadius Sinistra, the common or garden troll.

[Ardent]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Ahh Ardent, if you'd kept up the pretence of actually debating instead of posting petty and meaningless one-line "witticisms" needling BOTH sides in this debate, I might not have seen through you. Curse me for a blind fool. Ladies and gentlemen, may I present Goadius Sinistra, the common or garden troll.

 

What debate? You asked me to show you how you were a hypocrite. I did. End of debate.

 

Oh and, while we're on it, everyone, Onerous Arachnid. Take a bow, AL. Seriously, the only point you've argued thus far is how stupid it would be to patch now, when it's pretty clear that waiting would be dumber by far.

[FK | unnamed]

Like I said Al, we have weapon disable and force disable cvars, both *helped keep JO alive.

 

When only a very small % of the servers ran full weapon, all force default etc. in JO, you can't sit here and tell me people did not like the *option to customize their game play/servers.

 

Not to mention Raven even publicly stated they marketed this game (JA) towards the larger number of players who preferred playing a game type that was based directly on the console cvar g_weaponDisable 65531...

 

Options = good.

 

And while yes, some in the “pro kick” camp want an across the board change, the overall best solution for the community is to do like they did with sabers and force:

 

Let the players themselves decide with a cvar.

[Spider AL]

What debate? You asked me to show you how you were a hypocrite. I did. End of debate.

I guess I've just proved that you're a dolphin then, because I just said it. Which is all YOU did. Proof my backside. Go and troll someone who cares, you won't get a rise out of me with your emotive and unsubstantiated flamebait. Your kind aren't even an annoyance anymore. ADMIN! Troll here! Name of Ardent.

 

When only a very small % of the servers ran full weapon, all force default etc. in JO, you can't sit here and tell me people did not like the *option to customize their game play/servers.

Oh people liked it fine. People liked it a little too much, in fact... In fact, a cohesive competitive community was quite hard to engender in JO. One group played one type of game, with one set of weapons and one mod, another group played something completely different, and the twain could quite simply not compete. Give a man a meal to eat in five minutes, and he'll scoff as much as possible. Give a man a choice of five-hundred meals and five minutes, and he'll waste four of those minutes choosing one, and he'll go hungry. That's what happened to JO, and I don't think that was a good thing. I wouldn't call it survival of the game any more than I'd call JK's last year and a half on the zone, "survival."

 

So no, it's a bad thing. No STANDARD.

[FK | unnamed]

Originally posted by Spider AL

 

So no, it's a bad thing. No STANDARD.

 

 

That is also 100% Spider Al opinion.

 

And if you’re going to sit here and say g_weaponDisable 65531 was a bad move, chances are you’re going to be sitting on that island all by yourself.

 

 

 

The fact is the paying customers *wanted these separate game types and had the option to do it, so obviously it happened.

 

If g_weaponDisable 65531 would have never existed, chances are neither would the game Jedi Academy.

 

Remember Raven based the majority of this game's focus around saber only combat this time.

 

The reason for that was, this is what the majority of paying customers wanted in Outcast and this is what they still want.

[dyehead]

Did you use guns in SP, Al?

 

I didn't... Except for the level where your light saber gets taken away.. I didn't use a gun for anything else..

 

Sabers ARE the reason this game exists.

[FK | unnamed]

Location: Sneaking up behind Spider Al with a bottle of chloroform

 

lol wtf?

 

I give Al hard time but damn....

 

[Ardent]

Originally posted by dyehead

Did you use guns in SP, Al?

 

I didn't... Except for the level where your light saber gets taken away.. I didn't use a gun for anything else..

 

Sabers ARE the reason this game exists.

 

Notice he calls it "No Guns." I think that about explains how much he knows about the subject at hand, dye.

 

Plus he likes to call people trolls when they can prove he's a hypocrite. He's made most people's ignore lists. I leave him off mine because I like to send links to people, even random people who have nothing to do with the JA community, and even they laugh at his 'logic.' So...ggs

[Spider AL]

That is also 100% Spider Al opinion.

 

And if you’re going to sit here and say g_weaponDisable 65531 was a bad move, chances are you’re going to be sitting on that island all by yourself

Oh that's fine, just remember that the opposite is just YOUR opinion too. And even if your opinion is held by the majority, well... a lot of folks thought the earth was flat, at one point. This is ALL pretty much a matter of opinion.

 

As for weaponDisable, it's a slightly less fundamental thing than adding kick variables, and I'll explain why: Those who play with guns, no matter how few guns, will gravitate towards a competitive group that uses guns, and that competitive arena will probably contain ALL guns. So we're talking a low percentage of lost competitors there. Same with low force sabre duelling. Whatever wierd one-star powers a server allows, the players on it will naturally gravitate towards a low force sabre duelling competition. And that competition will, as with the guns, have its own standard of what's allowed and what isn't.

 

So force powers and guns, take one out, add one in, it WILL make splits, but smaller splits. Because a lot of players like myself, used kick a LOT in JO. If there were a similar move ported into JA, I'm sure I'd go back to using it. So would a lot of other people. It would split the community right down the middle, and who can say what competitions would do about it? Kick was fundamental to the game in JO. If it were fundamental in JA, would it become indespensable? I think possibly so. If so, we kickers would be unwilling to compete in a no-kick environment, and vice-versa. So that's the beef to be honest, a two-way split.

 

Even back in JO, there was that split. There were always two duelling communities, one that allowed kick, one that didn't. The players from each didn't really like the other gametype. That's just a matter of record.

 

Did you use guns in SP, Al?

Sure. Those pesky conky-troopers fell to my speeded up stouker wrath. I even killed a large number of Sith with my conky. You just gotta pick your moment.

 

So are you saying MP should be exactly like SP then, Dyehead? If so, that's nonsense, and irrelevant to boot.

 

Notice he calls it "No Guns." I think that about explains how much he knows about the subject at hand, dye.

Heh heh heh. Ahh youthful troll... Back in 1998, when the JK community had really evolved on the zone, the standard notation for games was as follows:

 

NH: No Hacks

NG: No guns (sabres only for your benefit)

FF: Full Force

NF: No Force

BGJ: Battleground Jedi

CO: Canyon Oasis

 

etcetera, etcetera. I think you've just demonstrated your own ignorance of the proud history of this game-series, Ardent. I don't expect anything better from a troll, though.

 

Plus he likes to call people trolls when they can prove he's a hypocrite.

I like to call people who are trying to annoy, start flamewars and/or needle people illogically without foundation, sense or maturity, trolls. That's you, sonny jim.

 

And your insults will have to become SO much more effective before they have any effect whatsoever. GG D00d!!!11, keep on throwing those phantom snowballs.

[Ardent]

Originally posted by Spider AL

[Heh heh heh. Ahh youthful troll... Back in 1998, when the JK community had really evolved on the zone, the standard notation for games was as follows:

 

NH: No Hacks

NG: No guns (sabres only for your benefit)

FF: Full Force

NF: No Force

BGJ: Battleground Jedi

CO: Canyon Oasis

 

etcetera, etcetera. I think you've just demonstrated your own ignorance of the proud history of this game-series, Ardent. I don't expect anything better from a troll, though.[/b]

 

Indeed, you've found me out. I don't live in the past. I played JK on the Zone with a 56k connection, so I only dueled (and am aware of the abbreviations kthx). The point is, everyone else refers to it as Saber-Only (S/O or SO), so why can't you? Because you're living in the past. Which is exactly what your entire position boils down with. You're so happy with the status quo, it's a wonder you even bothered to buy JA at all. I mean, it could only get worse with improvement right?

 

I like to call people who are trying to annoy, start flamewars and/or needle people illogically without foundation, sense or maturity, trolls. That's you, sonny jim.

 

Hey, if I wanted to start a flamewar, trust me, you'd be in the middle of a raging inferno right now. If I annoy you, tough ****, you annoy me. If you think I approached my position illogically, I question your definition of logic. If you want to discuss the psychological ramifications of a guilt-free anonymous society via the internet, there are forums for that. But the fact of the matter is that what you're engaging in right now is libel. I don't like it, but instead of crying to an administrator, and I'm 100% certain this thread is being watched, I simply treat you exactly the same way as you treat me. If you find that trite or offensive, STOP IT.

 

And your insults will have to become SO much more effective before they have any effect whatsoever. GG D00d!!!11, keep on throwing those phantom snowballs.

 

Look man, I'm sorry your father beat you or whatever, but I'm not here to insult you.

 

You're not worth my time.

 

I'm here to make sure everyone can see your "logic" for what it is: garbage. I'd be highly appreciative if you could take your logic and go help out bin Laden as a logistics advisor or something.

[Kurgan]

I'll concur that I'm also old school and more familiar with NG than with "SO" (which I honestly never saw used until the FK guys started debating the merits of kick on here in the last week or two).

 

Though, the most common way we said it was:

 

Sabers FF CO (arggg, the dreaded overplayed Canyon Oasis, lol)

NF guns NH/NC (No Hack/No Cheat, as if there was a difference)

 

Like so.

 

"Guns" implied all weapons besides the saber, although there was no way to really disable the saber, so it really meant "all weapons."

 

"Sabers" usually meant saber duels, but you could theoretically use your bryar pistol and fists (unless the bryar was removed from the map like in the case of 'Dark Jedi Levels' and other addons, MotS did this for Ranked Jedi as well). See there was no duel mode in JK1 or MotS, just "saber levels" that didn't have ammo or weapon pickups.

 

That's also where the term "mana" comes from. In JK1 they called it "Force Mana."

[Ardent]

Originally posted by Kurgan

I'll concur that I'm also old school and more familiar with NG than with "SO" (which I honestly never saw used until the FK guys started debating the merits of kick on here in the last week or two).

 

Well, the current ladders all refer to it as such. I dunno, maybe I'm weird, or maybe it's because I do play competitively, but I've never missed the "old days."

 

"Sabers" usually meant saber duels, but you could theoretically use your bryar pistol and fists (unless the bryar was removed from the map like in the case of 'Dark Jedi Levels' and other addons, MotS did this for Ranked Jedi as well). See there was no duel mode in JK1 or MotS, just "saber levels" that didn't have ammo or weapon pickups.

 

And usually fewer people and thus...smaller lag. I barely remember JK at all, and couldn't tell you where my disk was at...but it's still installed on my old computer. I know people still play on the Zone, and I remember how to use the double-slash. That's about it.

 

That's also where the term "mana" comes from. In JK1 they called it "Force Mana."

 

That I remember. I don't mind, though, as it's pretty clear what you mean by it. The question is, do you still play 1.02 JO? Are you completely satisfied with the current JA for the next few months?

 

I don't, I don't and I'm not. Thus, I am compelled to poke holes in Spider AL's boat. I don't like the man, but that doesn't mean I hate him either. Nor do I go out of my way to attack his person, I merely respond in kind. The Golden Rule and all.

[FK | unnamed]

it was always "s/o" to me, but I never came from the jk1/df series.

 

I was a quake 1/2/3 vet for years until JO hooked me.

[Kurgan]

That I remember. I don't mind, though, as it's pretty clear what you mean by it. The question is, do you still play 1.02 JO? Are you completely satisfied with the current JA for the next few months?

 

Yes, I'm completely satisfied with JA. The only things I really want to see are MORE of what the game already offers (more siege maps, more ctf maps, more skins, etc).

 

Sure, one or two tweaks would be nice (like the missing grapple and sound effects in MP, a semi-transparent skin for first person lightsaber and bot routes in Siege), but all in all, the game's just great.

 

The gameplay doesn't need to be changed in a patch. I've said it before, I'll say it again, a new patch (if it comes out) should increase stability and fix bugs, NOT change gameplay or remove features.

 

Thus, I am compelled to poke holes in Spider AL's boat.

I don't like the man, but that doesn't mean I hate him either.

 

You don't know the man, but that's beside the point. You guys can argue until the cows come home for all I care, so long as you keep it in a civilized manner in accordance with the rules and conventions of these forums.

 

Nor do I go out of my way to attack his person, I merely respond in kind. The Golden Rule and all.

 

Of course, though I'd like to point out that if one of you breaks the rules, and the other repeats that mistake, you both will get punished, not just "the one who started it."

 

 

Raven, WE, the Majority of JA players who visit the LucasArts forums, think there are balance issues with the sabers! Please look into this when you fix the server issues!

 

This part really gets me. Where does he get off saying the MAJORITY of JA players on LucasArts forums?

 

First off, these are NOT lucasarts's forums, but rather LucasFORUMS, which is part of LucasFANnetworks, which is a fan-run network of sites (owned by JediKnight.net and MixnMojo.com).

 

Second, there are over 57,000 (yes, thousand) registered users on these forums. How do you know ALL of them agree with you, based on the posts in one thread (or even the JA forum)?

 

Just playing JA the other day, it listed over 2 million (yes million) players having logged into the Raven Master Server since release. Now granted, many of those may be repeat visitors but still... how many MORE players are satisfied with the sabers but have not posted their opinion here?

 

No offense, but it's quite the height of arrogance to assume that the posters in this forum represent anymore than a miniscule fraction of the JA community at large.

[Spider AL]

Because you're living in the past. Which is exactly what your entire position boils down with. You're so happy with the status quo, it's a wonder you even bothered to buy JA at all. I mean, it could only get worse with improvement right?

Hmm. Because premature gameplay patching causes negative side-effects, (due to the fact that any attempt to patch gameplay before its overall makeup is fully understood is ill advised at best) I don't want to see premature patching. You rant on about how I'm living in the past, but the truth is that: subsumed within your knee-jerk reaction to the fact that there are aspects of JA that don't agree with you, you've forgotten how much worse premature patching can make a game. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

You've ranted on a lot about how I'm a hypocrite because on the one hand I know that JA is a separate game from JO, and on the other I use what happened to JO as an example of how bad things can happen to a game... Newsflash for a five-hundredth time: Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I can use what happened (and have done) to tribes as an example of bad premature patching. That doesn't mean I think Tribes and JA are the same game. Your definition of hypocrisy must be as outlandish as your definition of "responding in kind". Maybe you've been listening to too much Alanis Morissette... I hear that can cause similar maladies, like not understanding what sarcasm is.

 

But I expect too much. Trolls aren't interested in logic, merely in goading people. No matter HOW much you goad me, I'll never ever descend to your level. That's in writing.

 

Hey, if I wanted to start a flamewar, trust me, you'd be in the middle of a raging inferno right now.

Terror grips me. It's obvious that you're trying to start a flamewar. Your posts have been possibly the most petty that these patching-related threads have seen so far. But you won't succeed, that's a certainty.

 

Look man, I'm sorry your father beat you or whatever, but I'm not here to insult you.

 

You're not worth my time.

Well sheesh, I'm glad you're sorry for my awful childhood. I weep nightly. Grow up. If you're not here to insult me, why are you trying to so desperately, and since I'm not worth your time, stop trolling, go order a pizza or something. Try that for logic.

 

And thanks for the classic trolling quote, btw.

 

The point is, everyone else refers to it as Saber-Only (S/O or SO), so why can't you?

"Everyone"? Wrong again... As for WHY I can't, why would I? I'm not going to suddenly start referring to my computer as "a banana" just because you think it's more trendy. You fashionable wee tyke, you.

 

I am compelled to poke holes in Spider AL's boat. I don't like the man, but that doesn't mean I hate him either. Nor do I go out of my way to attack his person, I merely respond in kind. The Golden Rule and all.

These holes you're talking about are merely in your head, Ardent. You have no argument to back up, you have no logic, no evidence and no civility. It's painfully obvious that you're desperately trying to make me insult you back. It's not going to work. Once you realise that, I'm sure you'll realise the futility of the attempt and scuttle off.

 

But the fact of the matter is that what you're engaging in right now is libel.

Calling you a troll is so truthful it's practically RELIGIOUS. Look at your own posts. I'm sure you think of yourself as some pro-premature-patching grand crusader... But all you're doing is trolling.

 

I shouldn't even bother, really. Chances are you're trolling on purpose as opposed to trolling out of some misguided belief. Ah well, I'm a fool for love.

 

Remember JO v.1.03 Raven, no premature patch for JA! wait a while!

[Prime]

Originally posted by Ardent

Are you completely satisfied with the current JA for the next few months?

Actually I am, if anyone cares I only really play FFA/TFFA and Duels (all forms). I only played once on a Seige server, and in my browser I never see a CTF server. I don't if it just isn't popular or what (does anyone yet know what criteria puts a server in your list)? Personally, I like JA MP more than JO, partially because guns (although still very effective) vs. sabers doesn't seem so completely lopsided, and there doesn't seem to be one particular move than is spammed. Also, contrary to what many others believe, I find each saberstyle useful in it's own way. I've come across good players who use each style, and as an old school single saber fan I have been quite successful, so I don't think they are too imbalanced.

 

Also, servers that use the g_saberdamagescale cvar to increase the damage seem to be becoming more popular. Many have found 1.5 to 2 to be an excellent setting.

 

Just my experience.

[traj]

Premature is a relative term. It's opinion, nothing more.

 

And most people got this game more than 2 weeks ago, so the "The game has only been out a week" line is inaccurate as well.

[Ardent]

Originally posted by Spider AL

Hmm. Because premature gameplay patching causes negative side-effects, (due to the fact that any attempt to patch gameplay before its overall makeup is fully understood is ill advised at best) I don't want to see premature patching. You rant on about how I'm living in the past, but the truth is that: subsumed within your knee-jerk reaction to the fact that there are aspects of JA that don't agree with you, you've forgotten how much worse premature patching can make a game. Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it.

 

Circular logic can't build a foundation. Look man, you yap on and on about premature patching but...as traj said, it's a relative term. Think of it like this: I hand you a rock, you can break a window. I hand you a relativistic rock, and you can destroy the world. That's a huge difference. Understand?

 

You've ranted on a lot about how I'm a hypocrite because on the one hand I know that JA is a separate game from JO, and on the other I use what happened to JO as an example of how bad things can happen to a game... Newsflash for a five-hundredth time: Those two things aren't mutually exclusive. I can use what happened (and have done) to tribes as an example of bad premature patching. That doesn't mean I think Tribes and JA are the same game. Your definition of hypocrisy must be as outlandish as your definition of "responding in kind". Maybe you've been listening to too much Alanis Morissette... I hear that can cause similar maladies, like not understanding what sarcasm is.

 

I haven't engaged in a good diatribe in a while. I'm getting there, though. The fact is, however, you're going back on what you've already said about JA and JO being exclusive in and of each other. But then you're pushing us to "remember" some horrible misdeed done with 1.03 and 1.04. Patches, most of us, still play on/with, despite the rampant (and somehow imbalanced?) nerfage. I hate to break it to you, but when two skilled players go at it, all these "imbalances" are nowhere to be seen. The only thing that matters is the relative skill of the players in the primary mode of offense, be it guns or sabers or kicking. The end.

 

But I expect too much. Trolls aren't interested in logic, merely in goading people. No matter HOW much you goad me, I'll never ever descend to your level. That's in writing.

 

I'm not interested in YOUR logic because it's flawed. If you'd dig your head up out of wherever it's stuck and looked around, it'd be pretty clear I don't have problems with accepting logic. Just yours. Maybe the problem isn't with me?

 

Terror grips me. It's obvious that you're trying to start a flamewar. Your posts have been possibly the most petty that these patching-related threads have seen so far. But you won't succeed, that's a certainty.

 

As I said, I have much bigger guns. A quick browse of the CTF clan forums would prove that beyond a reasonable doubt. I'm not trying to start anything. What I want has already started, and that's the loss of faith in your words by the average reader.

 

Well sheesh, I'm glad you're sorry for my awful childhood. I weep nightly. Grow up. If you're not here to insult me, why are you trying to so desperately, and since I'm not worth your time, stop trolling, go order a pizza or something. Try that for logic.

 

I did order a pizza, and it was delicious. Thank you.

 

And thanks for the classic trolling quote, btw.

 

You're still not worth my time. The average reader building an unbiased opinion, however, certainly is.

 

"Everyone"? Wrong again... As for WHY I can't, why would I? I'm not going to suddenly start referring to my computer as "a banana" just because you think it's more trendy. You fashionable wee tyke, you.

 

Again, I urge you, go look at the current JO ladders. I'm sure rum can link you, he knows where they all are.

 

These holes you're talking about are merely in your head, Ardent. You have no argument to back up, you have no logic, no evidence and no civility. It's painfully obvious that you're desperately trying to make me insult you back. It's not going to work. Once you realise that, I'm sure you'll realise the futility of the attempt and scuttle off.

 

If I'm living in a dream world, then you must be living in never-neverland, because my perspective seems to be different. If I wanted you to insult me back (which, by the way, you've tried to do...weakly, however) I'm sure I'd be in emotional pain and would have to attempt to sue your anonymous self for emotional damages totalling the sum of eleventeen million dollars. Or something. As far as my scuttling off...scuttling is what spiders do, so...get to it.

 

Calling you a troll is so truthful it's practically RELIGIOUS. Look at your own posts. I'm sure you think of yourself as some pro-premature-patching grand crusader... But all you're doing is trolling.

 

Hey now, Kurgan seems to believe I maintain a level of civility above and beyond that of a troll. I happen to agree. I just represent a viewpoint opposing yours, so you've attempted to label me. Perhaps you're the troll?

 

I shouldn't even bother, really. Chances are you're trolling on purpose as opposed to trolling out of some misguided belief. Ah well, I'm a fool for love.

 

There are better places to troll on purpose. Regrettably, you visit none of those places to my knowledge. :'( As far as your being a fool, perhaps so, but not for my love. You may have none.

 

Remember JO v.1.03 Raven, no premature patch for JA! wait a while!

 

Remember Raven, don't listen to one person!