Another kick thread...

[Gabrobot]

Since there seems to some hostility to my stating my reasons in another thread, I'm posting my reasons again, here, so that someone will, hopefully, reply to them.

 

My original posts:

Originally posted by Gabrobot

Has anyone thought of the fact that perhaps Raven tweaked things so that players now have to use all the tools which Raven put in, in order to get anywhere? Perhaps playing, with half of these taken out, doesn't work because...half of it's left out?

 

Raven directed their attention on balancing everything out, and that included taking out kick, obviously since they took out kick. They designed JA CTF with everything in mind...that includes the force powers, the saber styles and their new moves and it includes the guns...all nine of them and three explosive devises. Now, if you want to take away some of your most valuable tools, fine...but remember that it's going to cause problems.

 

Now, if a kick option were put in, then you're saying that it wouldn't cause problems because only people who want to use will use it. Well, if Raven made it so that you could kill people by jumping on their heads, then people would use that option because of how easy it makes killing people. You just have to manage jumping on their head, right? So what you'd end up with is a bunch of idiots jumping around trying to jump on each others heads. Nice, eh? There goes all of Raven's careful balancing.

 

Now, Kicking is as bad as jumping on someone’s head to kill them. Why? Because its easy...everyone would go around trying to kick each other, just like in JKII...I don't know just how much of that went on in CTF or FFA games, but Duels were complete ****...everyone doing those stupid bows and "honor" and killing each other by being the fastest kicker rather then a skilled saberist...it completely ruined Duel mode. (The "honor" **** was bad enough without the battles being completely devoid of skill.)

 

Now, if you're half way intelligent, you'll have figured out what my reply, to your original question, was...

 

Originally posted by Gabrobot

Originally posted by dyehead

I think you're missing the point, which is that guns suck, and that's not an option to solve the problem of what our question was, your reply was, 'lamers, shut up and use guns because s/o ctf is dumb'

 

Okay, so you're saying that your opinion is that guns suck and that my opinion is that saber only CTF sucks...thanks for not only stating your opinion in a manner which seems to imply that you're right and that it's a fact, but also giving me an opinion which I don't have. If I used the same tactics, then I could say something about your opinion being that everyone who doesn't play saber only CTF should jump in front of a train, and we would get exactly nowhere. Please, enough of the childish nonsense of warping my opinion and then forcing it on me...it just shows why you shouldn't be the ones to be deciding if something needs to be changed in the gameplay...you have no respect for others and their opinions.

 

 

Now, the reason you think guns suck may be that you can't, and refuse to, learn how to use them and how to defend yourself against them. I was playing a JA FFA game just yesterday, where I was one of the top scorers...the reason was because I was using everything I had to kill people. I used force powers, my lightstaff and guns. Then this guy (who had all of 2 points by the time the match ended) started calling me "lame" and that I "don't know how to play jk"...now, guess what type of player he was? He was one of those "honor" people who feel that their way of playing is right, and since that doesn't include using guns, he's going complain about it when he's always killed by guns.

Now, I don't know if that's why you think guns suck, but that's what I suspect. If I am wrong in my suspicion, then correct my error and please state a logical reason why you think they suck.

 

I don't know if saber only CTF sucks, as I haven't tried playing that way...why have I not played that way? Because, to me, it doesn't sound like a fun way to play. That's just my opinion, and there are obviously some people who find it fun...that's fine, I don't have a problem with that. I prefer to play CTF with everything it was intended to be played with. Some people may not want to play with everything...that's fine, they can play it however they want. If something doesn't work when you play that way, however, don't blame Raven and demand that they make a patch to "fix" this "bug"...that is not fine. Raven made the game the way it is for a reason...kicks were popular...Raven would not have taken them out if there wasn't a problem with them being in. That problem is that they're easy to pull off, and completely screw up all the other elements of the gameplay.

 

I have stated my reasons for why I think kick would be used, and why it would ruin JA just like it did in JKII...if you ignore my logical arguments, then that's your own fault, not mine.

 

And my last message is: Don't ruin everyone else's fun. It is tragic that the way you played CTF in JO is no longer fun in JA, but that's just because Raven made people depend on everything, rather than a few moves repeated in robotic button presses. That is JA, and if you don't like the way JA is played, then that is your problem...JA is JA...and if you bring up that idiotic "JA is a JO mod" argument, then be warned that I have a logical reply for that, as well.

 

I'm also so glad I'm talking with people who value other peoples opinions so highly, that they openly say, in a most rude way, that you're going to ignore my reply's if you don't like them. Very open minded of you, I must say.

 

Now, what I am asking for, is a reason why bringing back kick, as an option, will not cause great harm to the enjoyment of the other game types in JA. I have stated my logical reasons why I think it will cause harm, and so far no one has given a good reason why it won't cause harm.

 

I am open to any opinions, on this, as long as they aren't stated in a childish and immature way.

[Side]

u said it urself,u never realy tried s/o ctf

and trust me kick is a must for that gametype

 

unlike dye i dont hate guns at all,hell that that most enjoyable part in jka so far(well for me that is...) specialy in that siege mod

 

and it wont cause harm for the simple fact that it will OPTIONAL if the server admin doesnt like kick then turn off kicks that all

[Gabrobot]

My point was that kick would be enabled because it's popular...it's easy to pull off, and is the most effective move. That doesn't mean it would make JA a better game (in the other game modes, not saber only CTF)...it means it takes the fun out of what makes JA special (in those other modes).

 

And, as I've said before, it's tragic that saber only CTF is no longer fun for the people who liked playing that way in JKII, but JA is a different game and Raven decided to go in favor of making guns a more important part of the gameplay.

[Rumor]

then let server administrators decide if they want kick on their servers, and if you don't like it, play where they have it disabled.

[Side]

Originally posted by Side

and it wont cause harm for the simple fact that it will OPTIONAL if the server admin doesnt like kick then turn off kicks that all

[Gabrobot]

In reality that would most likely not work. Because of kick's popularity, most servers would enable it, and you'd have to do a lot of searching to find a server with players on it which doesn't have a terrible ping (quite important in my case since I have a 56k connection).

 

Remember Holocron Deathmatch in JKII? Not particularly fun, and it didn't have many people playing it because there were no fans of it from previous games. Raven decided to take it completely out because of this. The reason saber only CTF is still in JA is because the option to play with saber and force only has been in Jedi Knight games since the original Jedi Knight...it has a larger fan base, but that doesn't mean it's still fun in JA.

 

Also, having servers with two very different types of play would split the community and there would be a repeat of the JKII disaster.

[A Big Fat CoW]

Honestly, if you want to have kicks, just go play JO. it's not like JA is completely replacing JO, they're different games. Stop complaining that "kick isnt here anymore bring it back plz", because THIS IS NOT JO. if this has different gameplay mechanics, then all the better.

 

Honestly, do you see people going around asking for Raven to bring back the BFG, the AWP, etc, for JA? No, because they're from an entirely different game. Kicking is from an entirely different game. Shut up. Stop complaining. No one cares.

[the weiner dog!]

See guys, that's the funny key to the puzzle you are missing.

 

We don't need kicks to kill you people, (as in the average players).

 

Killing you guys is actually a very easy task still, just as easy as it was in Jedi Outcast.

 

 

 

We want the game un nerfed so that matches between two skilled players/teams are not 20 minute stalemates.

 

It really has nothing to do with the average player.

[Jello123]

heh never thought of it that way..nice dog

 

and kick isnt exactly easy to pull off on a fc with speed

 

and slashing your saber in red (hard) stance results in you not being able to be moved while being kicked

 

and considerin kick does 20 dmg each..it's not exactly simple to pull off 6 kicks in a row...in ctf that is

 

and cow i suggest u readin those two huge threads about ja mp before stating "no one cares"

 

 

the serious multiplayer one by weiner and the kick thing by captainjack

[dyehead]

Originally posted by Gabrobot

In reality that would most likely not work. Because of kick's popularity, most servers would enable it, and you'd have to do a lot of searching to find a server with players on it which doesn't have a terrible ping (quite important in my case since I have a 56k connection).

 

McFly???

 

If kick is so popular, then obviously the masses want it back, you being in the minority should just deal with kick then, no? Or are you that one jerkoff that everyone hates because they whine so much about something that they themselves are unable at becoming adept at, that the game developers remove it..

 

Please. Your original statement was that your opinion is that the creators of JKA created it so you'd have to use guns for effective CTF. I think that's BS, and they're smarter than that.

 

Obviously people play games until they get tired of them, or a new game comes out. I played JKO for over a year, then got tired of it and stopped playing, moving onto other games. Now that JKA is here, that's a renewed and revived community from the JKO days, which I expect to see playing the same type of game, and liking it the same type of way, which IS THE CASE.

 

So obviously, if so many people like kick, then maybe it should be brought back.

 

Why not NOT bring back kick? Because people will stop playing, the hardcore players will not play JKA, and they will tell their friends not to waste their money on it, because for their type of gameplay, it's not up to par.

 

As a FACT, S/O CTF has had the longest running playerbase out of any kind of Jedi Knight game type. Obviously, the community enjoys that type of play.

 

It sounds to me like you just want some ff/guns server options, you're afraid that all the servers local to you will turn into sabers only boohoo..

 

I appreciate all efforts that Raven has put into this game, and I'm sure they'll make efforts to appease the Sabers Only community, as they have in the past.

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by the weiner dog!

See guys, that's the funny key to the puzzle you are missing.

 

We don't need kicks to kill you people, (as in the average players).

 

Killing you guys is actually a very easy task still, just as easy as it was in Jedi Outcast.

 

 

 

We want the game un nerfed so that matches between two skilled players/teams are not 20 minute stalemates.

 

It really has nothing to do with the average player.

 

Why are you more important than everyone else? By "un nerfing" JA, it would become impossible for many players, who play game types other than CTF, to enjoy playing JA. (Not so subtle hint to [div3rse.jello] )

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by dyehead

[snip]

 

No...I'm talking about people who would rather over use (spam) certain moves rather than use everything. They are the people devoid of skill who ruin the gameplay because everyone else has to use the move if they are to win. Just because it's popular doesn't mean it's actually supported by the majority of the gamers. Just look at that "honor" **** for proof of that.

[Jello123]

ahah we arent exactly "important" than anyone else..

 

it's just that no one else has stuff to complain about..so we kinda stand out with the mass of the s/o community on the lucasforums heh

 

and i dont really see how it would be impossible unnerfing it

 

i mean the whole jedi outcast started with kicking, one hit dfa kills and stuff like that yet jo became the top selling pc game in 2002 in us, germany, and uk

[Gabrobot]

Originally posted by [div3rse.jello]

ahah we arent exactly "important" than anyone else..

 

it's just that no one else has stuff to complain about..so we kinda stand out with the mass of the s/o community on the lucasforums heh

 

and i dont really see how it would be impossible unnerfing it

 

i mean the whole jedi outcast started with kicking, one hit dfa kills and stuff like that yet jo became the top selling pc game in 2002 in us, germany, and uk

 

Yeah, and guess why...it was a great single player game. The vast majority of the people who bought JKII and who are buying JA, are single player gamers. Ever wonder why the reviews of JKII and JA mostly focus on it's single player? (For that matter, ever wonder why Raven focused on the single player?)

 

Those people are also some of the ones that might drop in on multi player if they could play without getting kicked constantly.

[the weiner dog!]

Never said we are more important, we are just better players at our chosen game type.

 

It would be no different than a really good gunner telling me I am not good as good at guns as he is.

 

I would not take it personal, because it is fact.

 

Since our chosen game type revolves around sabers and force, pretty much any server we go to, be it dueling, FFA, TeamFFA or CTF, we can and do generally beat the living crap out of the players there who are not competition level clan players.

 

This is why I don't think you guys are seeing eye to eye with us on why we want kicks back.

 

I'm not trying to insult you guy, but even without kicks, even with all the nerfed crap like the grip restriction and force penalty on specials, I can still own it up like a mofo and have done so when I played on the public servers I have over the last few days.

 

Screed is a clan mate and another person posting here in support of us as well.

 

He spent the last few days totally dominating people on the servers he went to.

 

Plaz, another competition clanner had people freaking out because they had no admin mod to /kickban him because he was raping some clan in their own server.

 

This is the same treatment we got in Jedi Outcast.

 

Now I really don't care about them getting all pissy, my point of telling you all that was to illustrate that the "adapt to the changes it's a new game" argument is nonsense.

 

If this was a totally new game how and why do we still use the same old tactics and beat the hell out of the average Joe Q player?

 

 

Our problem is when we face each other, you have basically two players/clans who know all the "dirty little tricks" but there is no high damage/quick death bringer like unrestricted combos/specials/complex high damage kick related combos etc. so the "all it takes is one shot" variable is removed and it becomes a stalemate.

 

Also make no mistake; this does not only affect CTF.

 

Duels are a total stalemate (FF duel).

TeamFFA is a long drawn out “let’s all stand in a row and Kata fight and see who gets lucky”

[Mojopin]

I think if you want to lame your kick again, just wait. Someone will make a mod soon enough that people will run on their server, play ctf on those servers and probablem solved. Until then, stick with JO and leave game design and JA's features to Raven. This is a Start Wars game, tell me one scene in any Star Wars film to date that shows some evil Jedi chocking somone and while giving them multiple kicks to the cranium...

[the weiner dog!]

Show me one movie where they used a conc rifle.

 

Show me one movie with people playing CTF.

 

Show me one movie where they had Chewbacca running around with a pink saber.

 

It’s a game you silly willy, it's not the movies.

 

Never has been, never will be.

 

btw the "lame" comment just said what I was waiting for some one to say.

 

You guys don't want kicks back in because you are afraid of them.

 

Thanks for being the first to publicly say it.

 

You hated them because you never learned how to counter them properly.

 

Yeah that is true, deny it all you like but you know it's dead on the mark.

[Jello123]

tell me one scene where you see jedis bowing before they fight

 

tell me one scene where you see them fight like the way you do

 

tell me one scene where you see them change saber styles, do a dfa, lunge, yellow dfa, any kata, a cartwheel

 

see how absurd your "that wasnt in the movie" argument is

[Jello123]

HAHAHAA dog we made similar posts

[Krause]

Hehe, this reminds of of the discussions we had on the day of defeat boards regarding jump-shooting. Anyway high-level clan players usualy do know what they are talking about simply because they spend more time playing the game then anyone else. HOWEVER you should keep in mind that they are only a very small portion of the entire playerbase. Personally i wouldn't object against an optional return of the kick as long as it only does limited or no damage at all.

 

(on a side note. the entire concept of playing ctf with meelee weapons only seems kinda silly to me. Insta-gib all the way )

[backup7]

I don't think people really LIKED kick, they just used it because it was there- and one of the easiest ways to kill people.

 

Keeping it out of the game = avoidance of this whole debacle.

[Mojopin]

ok weiner genuis, how the hell did you counter them. The only way I saw was to either use protect or hit fast run and move to the side. But even then the game would often compensate for lag and you would still get kicked. You talk about lame comments, your comment that "oh you just didn't know how to counter" is as lame as they come. Counter 3 L33t players like yourself constantly kicking you down. Don't even begin to tell me you have a counter for that because i have played tons and tons of JO, the kick was too much and way overpowered. Afraid of them sheesh, when I would go into straight duels with people, no kick, I would own. You are just to much of a wimp with a saber and need something to spam so you can win a game.

 

When I go into a duel, I would use kick very little primarily because most people would spam it. It was a nifty move I give you that, but it was way overpowered. I played it so much until I couldn't stand the lame ass spamming of kick and started to play a better MP game. Not that JA is that much better, but at leat they got rid of the lame ass kick, goodbye and good riddance, you aint going to see it again on a server running retail. Go play outcast and quit yer bitchin...

 

Oh and I should have included the comics in the comment about it being a Star Wars game. Alot of the things you mentioned earlier Weiner are things you might see in the comics, it's part of the SW universe also. Well maybe not the CTF but I'll give you that, it's a game: a STAR WARS game.

[WadeV1589]

See guys, that's the funny key to the puzzle you are missing.

 

We don't need kicks to kill you people, (as in the average players).

 

Killing you guys is actually a very easy task still, just as easy as it was in Jedi Outcast.

 

I'd say that's reason enough to not bring back kick, stop your "s/o l33tist's" from saying "we're the best at s/o we know what's right", if the rest of us in every game type has had to learn new ways to do stuff, why in hell are you any different? You've lost something? We all have! Your skill is soooooo good in s/o that you spend more time complaining here about it than trying to find ways around it! Face it, you've lost kick, s/o is NOT in the majority (no matter how much your ego believes it is) so deal with the loss! I can't believe you'll spend so much time complaining, it's sad.

 

It's people like you that end up bringing games down with your mass complaining, people just buying JA and it being the first game in the SW series they've bought don't want to come here and hear you complaining, nor do they want to go on a server to hear you complaining!

[Jello123]

mojopin...all you do is roll with absorb on..and push around if you want

 

 

and i wouldnt be callin the best full force saber only dueler a wimp

[C'jais]

I find it amusing that the s/o CTF people willingly restrict their combat options so they can play a game that's more "fun" to them.

 

Sure, you could use guns and kill that running FC, but why don't you? Because then you'd have to introduce guns to your game and you don't want that. Why's that? Because the game will be far easier for those using guns? Because the game will be dreadfully dull with guns included? Why?

 

After all, there's a perfectly fine tool at your disposal but you're not using it, yet you're now whining about how hard it is to kill - sounds familiar?

 

As for the kick, it's already in the game. It's a bit trickier to employ, but it'll have to do instead.