traj Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Good post weiner. You're right about not arguing too. I came here to try to find solutions to our FF/SO problems in JA, and couldn't stand how this place was more about winning arguments than solving problems. More about finding any tiny thing that someone said in a post and posting a 12 paragraph bore-a-thon just to try to counter what was said. Guess I got caught up in it. Something about this place. Anyways, the togglable cvar options are the way to go for a billion reasons already mentioned here. I won't bore you with more repetition. /pukes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by traj Good post weiner. You're right about not arguing too. I came here to try to find solutions to our FF/SO problems in JA, and couldn't stand how this place was more about winning arguments than solving problems. More about finding any tiny thing that someone said in a post and posting a 12 paragraph bore-a-thon just to try to counter what was said. Guess I got caught up in it. Something about this place. Anyways, the togglable cvar options are the way to go for a billion reasons already mentioned here. I won't bore you with more repetition. /pukes If you were TRULY interested in getting Raven to see your POV, why are you not on their direct forum? I've been popping in over there a bit and I see that none of you have bothered to bring this up on THEIR OWN FORUM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
m_skywalker Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Hahaha, let's not get all worked up here. But let me ask you something... did you take theoretical physics before taking ACTUAL physics? Because the stuff you write makes it sound like you read a book on the subject and declared yourself an expert. Do you have a degree in physics? Didn't think so. The thing about "theoretical physics" is that in order to be taken seriously (note that whether or not it is taken seriously has nothing to do with whether or not it genuinely refers to any actual reality) it has to connect to accepted physical theory in some measurable way. Otherwise it falls in to another category entirely: idle speculation. Not that there's anything wrong with that! It's just that you can't go around deducing physical laws based on entirely hypothetical or assumed principles. Yes, ha ha, all of science is like this (and frankly, this is why I don't have much faith in science as an absolute description of reality), but the so-called scientific method is based on more than just picking ideas out of the air and running with them. Or relying on some "realities" and ignoring others. Case in point: (paraphrased) "The shield can't be solid because if it were, the user would be crushed by the force of it. Therefore it must be a shell." What kind of deduction is this? First off, please describe the nature of this force FIELD, such that it "crushes" things inside it. Right now you're sitting in the middle of a big magnetic field, yet you are not crushed. Second, assuming you can explain this, how can you discount one possibility on the grounds of scientific implausability, yet ignore the scientific implausability of generating a field in the shape of a spherical shell with a device that presumably fits in the pocket of Joe Jedi walking down the streets of Courescant? Same goes for your explanation as to why this shield will block a blaster shot but not a kick, because of some kinetic energy cutoff. "Quite simple," yes. But why should we accept this explanation over any other? Given the situation, is there any physical reality that suggests this should be the case, or are we just talking about Ardent's Theory of Kinetic Barriers? I vote for the second one. We might as well be talking about a doody on a string. And finally, we come to this statement: "You're close, but you fail to understand that in order to function effectively as either a container or a decontainer, it would have to force its field of effect to be a plane, admittedly a spherical plane, but a plane nonetheless." Well, I have to disagree. Let's take a trip in to "actual" physics world, where we have a nice little decontainer I like to call the Pauli Exclusion Principle. Does it have anything to do with spherical planes? Let's take a step back... does the reason your hand doesn't pass through your keyboard when you type have anything to do with spherical planes? No. I'm afraid that if we're operating on the assumption that physical law as we know it is real, then it has to do with volumous (ie. "solid", ie. "not shell-like") fields. Oh well! I guess we could just ignore hundreds of years of scientific study and invent our own tHeOrEtIcAl model that, while having nothing to do with reality, explains our kinetic deflector! And maybe we could convince the world that we're right, by force of will alone! And on that note, I can't believe I'm having this discussion on a Jedi Knight message board... it's been real! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Jedi Academy is based on the same exact code Jedi Outcast was. All the saber swings are the same. All the guns are the same. All the force powers are the same. They added two new stances with a few swings but neither new stance has as many swings and combos as the old single stance that was directly ported over from Jedi Outcast. They added one new gun. They added no new force powers. They put in some wall grab moves. Take your head out of your rectal cavity and wake up, this is 85% Jedi Outcast. Same code. Same moves. Same guns. Same sabers. Same powers. Same physics. New maps. New models. A few minor additions to the weapon/saber parts. A few very badly chosen nerfs. Are you people really this clueless? It is a "new game" in name only you mindless sheep, the engine, game play dynamics and game play content are IDENTICAL to Jedi Outcast. And why is that? Because this entire build was nothing more than taking the Jedi Outcast build and changing a few things and adding a few things. They did not build and entire new game from scratch people, they took Jedi Outcast and altered it. duh, hello. Nothing changed other than some really bad placed nerfs that are messing up game play balance for a lot of people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardent Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by darth_michael Hahaha, let's not get all worked up here. But let me ask you something... did you take theoretical physics before taking ACTUAL physics? Because the stuff you write makes it sound like you read a book on the subject and declared yourself an expert. Do you have a degree in physics? Didn't think so. As I've mentioned, I'm not here to get worked up. It's my job to rile everyone else up. I'm actually studying for a degree in physics, but that's beside my point. The thing about "theoretical physics" is that in order to be taken seriously (note that whether or not it is taken seriously has nothing to do with whether or not it genuinely refers to any actual reality) it has to connect to accepted physical theory in some measurable way. Otherwise it falls in to another category entirely: idle speculation. Does it? Glancing over some of the work in the science journals lately, I'm not so certain. You just have to present some evidence of it working. I mean, that's how we got physics in the first place. Considering we're talking about something taking place in a fictional environ, that's not really a plausible solution here. So we're relegated to idle speculation. ot that there's anything wrong with that! It's just that you can't go around deducing physical laws based on entirely hypothetical or assumed principles. Just because I wasn't born two thousand years ago I can't have a theory? Good grief. Yes, ha ha, all of science is like this (and frankly, this is why I don't have much faith in science as an absolute description of reality), but the so-called scientific method is based on more than just picking ideas out of the air and running with them. Well...not so much. Maybe at a professional level, but at an educational level, it rarely has beginnings higher than those humble "random ideas." Not surprisingly, most breakthroughs lately seem to be the result of students in a college research environment. Shave with a triple-blade razor? Invented by some kid who can't collect a dime on it because it was his project for a class at WPI. WPI, on the other hand, is raking money in hand-over-fist. Or relying on some "realities" and ignoring others. Well, that may have been an oversight because I don't really care what the majority of people, who aren't well-versed enough to know the difference, think. Case in point: (paraphrased) "The shield can't be solid because if it were, the user would be crushed by the force of it. Therefore it must be a shell." What kind of deduction is this? A fairly logical one. If the kinetic barrier is exerting pressure in order to deflect something (which, oddly enough, is a logical conclusion) then it has to exert the pressure on itself as well. First off, please describe the nature of this force FIELD, such that it "crushes" things inside it. Right now you're sitting in the middle of a big magnetic field, yet you are not crushed. Until you start to exert enough pressure against those fields that they start pushing back... Second, assuming you can explain this, how can you discount one possibility on the grounds of scientific implausability, yet ignore the scientific implausability of generating a field in the shape of a spherical shell with a device that presumably fits in the pocket of Joe Jedi walking down the streets of Courescant? Because it's my theory and my prerogative to do so? Mostly because none of this would be provable even if it was true, but I can work with physics however I like. I can even use it to explain a lightsaber if I want to, but that doesn't mean I can prove it's true...unless you have a functional lightsaber you don't mind sharing. Same goes for your explanation as to why this shield will block a blaster shot but not a kick, because of some kinetic energy cutoff. "Quite simple," yes. But why should we accept this explanation over any other? Because right now you're reading my theory. When reading someone else's you can accept their particular explanation over mine. Given the situation, is there any physical reality that suggests this should be the case, or are we just talking about Ardent's Theory of Kinetic Barriers? I vote for the second one. We might as well be talking about a doody on a string. Fair enough. As I've mentioned, you can't prove something until you make it work. As the only place this device functions is in a work of fiction, I can't prove it. And finally, we come to this statement: "You're close, but you fail to understand that in order to function effectively as either a container or a decontainer, it would have to force its field of effect to be a plane, admittedly a spherical plane, but a plane nonetheless." Well, I have to disagree. Let's take a trip in to "actual" physics world, where we have a nice little decontainer I like to call the Pauli Exclusion Principle. Does it have anything to do with spherical planes? Let's take a step back... does the reason your hand doesn't pass through your keyboard when you type have anything to do with spherical planes? No. I'm afraid that if we're operating on the assumption that physical law as we know it is real, then it has to do with volumous (ie. "solid", ie. "not shell-like") fields. On the other hand, we don't know that the Pauli Exclusion Principle, since you brought it up, is the full truth of the matter. It's been proven, yes, based on the circumstances in which the theory was presented. Present the theory in other circumstances, however, and it may just fail...or it may prove static. You can't tell until it happens. For the longest time the physical theory behind lightsabers had been considered bogus, but modern scientific theory seems to be leaning the other way now. We're just starting to learn about that sort of thing, though. Oh well! I guess we could just ignore hundreds of years of scientific study and invent our own tHeOrEtIcAl model that, while having nothing to do with reality, explains our kinetic deflector! And maybe we could convince the world that we're right, by force of will alone! Why not? Newton did it. And on that note, I can't believe I'm having this discussion on a Jedi Knight message board... it's been real! Well, you an J-lo have something in common then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyro Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 stfu nerds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! Jedi Academy is based on the same exact code Jedi Outcast was. All the saber swings are the same. All the guns are the same. All the force powers are the same. They added two new stances with a few swings but neither new stance has as many swings and combos as the old single stance that was directly ported over from Jedi Outcast. They added one new gun. They added no new force powers. They put in some wall grab moves. Take your head out of your rectal cavity and wake up, this is 85% Jedi Outcast. Same code. Same moves. Same guns. Same sabers. Same powers. Same physics. New maps. New models. A few minor additions to the weapon/saber parts. A few very badly chosen nerfs. Are you people really this clueless? It is a "new game" in name only you mindless sheep, the engine, game play dynamics and game play content are IDENTICAL to Jedi Outcast. And why is that? Because this entire build was nothing more than taking the Jedi Outcast build and changing a few things and adding a few things. They did not build and entire new game from scratch people, they took Jedi Outcast and altered it. duh, hello. Nothing changed other than some really bad placed nerfs that are messing up game play balance for a lot of people. I am sorry. Perhaps you are not aware that most sequels are based off the same engine as their predeccessors. Perhaps you do not know that Jedi Academy changes at least as much from JO as the sequels to most FPS games do. I mean...what...in a normal FPS game, you'll add weapons, missions, maps, models....isn't that basically what JA adds? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! Jedi Academy is based on the same exact code Jedi Outcast was. No it isn't. You think just because it looks the same that it's the same code. Once again, please print out your hex dump for both of them and prove your statement. Oh, wait! You can't. Originally posted by the weiner dog! All the saber swings are the same. Actually, they're not. Since you choose to perpetuate this falsehood it makes me doubt the veracity of your other posts. Originally posted by the weiner dog! All the guns are the same. Actually, they're not. Since you choose to perpetuate this falsehood it makes me doubt the veracity of your other posts. Originally posted by the weiner dog! All the force powers are the same. Actually, they're not. Since you choose to perpetuate this falsehood it makes me doubt the veracity of your other posts. Originally posted by the weiner dog! They added two new stances with a few swings but neither new stance has as many swings and combos as the old single stance that was directly ported over from Jedi Outcast. Which is completely contradictory to your whole post. First off, saying that the swings are the same and then saying that they are ported over from the other game is, well, I don't have a word to describe how stupid this is. "Porting" requires that this be a different game. But you assert they are the same. Make up your mind and then come back and post. Or not. Originally posted by the weiner dog! They added one new gun. Oh, so now they're NOT the same. Once again, make up your mind. Originally posted by the weiner dog! They added no new force powers. No new force powers, but the act differently. Originally posted by the weiner dog! They put in some wall grab moves. Which are not in JO. Thank you once again for proving my point. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Take your head out of your rectal cavity and wake up, this is 85% Jedi Outcast. I suggest to you to do so. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Same code. Same moves. Same guns. Same sabers. Same powers. Same physics. Incorrect on all counts. Nothing to see here. Move along. Originally posted by the weiner dog! New maps. New models. A few minor additions to the weapon/saber parts. A few very badly chosen nerfs. All of which prove that it's a different game... And no nerfs. A new game. Nothing to nerf. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Are you people really this clueless? Hmmm. Look in the mirror and ask again. Originally posted by the weiner dog! It is a "new game" in name only you mindless sheep, the engine, game play dynamics and game play content are IDENTICAL to Jedi Outcast. Then why did you buy it you clueless moron? So you could prove to everyone how stupid you are? Originally posted by the weiner dog! And why is that? Because this entire build was nothing more than taking the Jedi Outcast build and changing a few things and adding a few things. They did not build and entire new game from scratch people, they took Jedi Outcast and altered it. Same publisher, same developer. What legal requirement is there for them to make a completely different game? Originally posted by the weiner dog! duh, hello. Shoulda thought of that before you blew 50 USD, huh? Originally posted by the weiner dog! Nothing changed other than some really bad placed nerfs that are messing up game play balance for a lot of people. So return it and stop whining pathetically. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 -Explain to me the differences between all the guns (other than the conc) between Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. -Explain to me the differences between the single saber stance and it's three styles (fast/medium/heavy) in Jedi Outcast and Academy. -Explain to me the differences between the Force Powers in Outcast and Academy. I can give you a few (all nerfs as I mentioned above). Rage+ speed bonus gone (nerf). Grip line of sight restriction (nerf). Basic specials have a 25 force penalty (nerf). Sniper gun has a delay penalty after zoom (nerf). Ok guy, tell me the difference between the rocket launcher in JK2 and JA? Drain in JK2 and JA? Speed in Jk2 and JA? Protect? Seeing? Storm trooper gun? Team heal? Absorb? Lightning? Heavy swing combos any different? Fast style swings any different? Medium style combos any different? I'm serious guy, tell me the difference. Tell me the just how each and every gun is now different. Tell me just how each and every power is now different. Tell me how each and every single stance swing is now different. You can't can you? Nope. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 So do me and the rest of these people a favor, actually consider this an open statement to all of you: You don't play these game types, you have no clue about the finer details and points of game play mechanics were are discussing so simply read and if you do reply, post something relevant to the discussion that is backed up by fact not your ignorant personal opinions. And if you take offense at being called ignorant, you should. When a person says "I know nothing about this game type because I do not play it" but then proceeds to lecture the people who do play it about the mechanics of it, that is pure ignorance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by boinga1 I am sorry. Perhaps you are not aware that most sequels are based off the same engine as their predeccessors. Perhaps you do not know that Jedi Academy changes at least as much from JO as the sequels to most FPS games do. I mean...what...in a normal FPS game, you'll add weapons, missions, maps, models....isn't that basically what JA adds? Exactly. You just proved his point. He's not saying he's unhappy with how similar JA and JO are with eachother. He's just saying that the game isn't much different from JO and trying to disprove the people who are saying "well this is JA, not JO. Adapt. Blah blah blah." The gameplay is essentially the same as JO with a few "nerfs." If someone responds to this, please use something besides "this is a totally different game" because I'm aware that they are two different games. That's why they are sold on the shelves with different titles. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by FurionStormrage Seems to me like it is VERY balanced if you get a tie at the end of the game... balance does not mean that gameplay heavily favors one side of the spectrum. balance is where someone has about a 50/50 chance of living/dying in said situations. in JA it is more along the lines of 99/1 (1 being where he goes afk and gets taken down by a kata) that is not ballance. if it WAS balanced you would have a chance of killing someone who knows what they are doing as FC. in this version you DO NOT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boinga1 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by g//plaZma He's just saying that the game isn't much different from JO and trying to disprove the people who are saying "well this is JA, not JO. Adapt. Blah blah blah." The gameplay is essentially the same as JO with a few "nerfs." I am one of those people, as far as adapting goes. Look...don't view it as a nerfed game. Try to look at it as a new game, as if the game now is your basline for comparison, rather than using JO 1.04 as your baseline. You can certainly say, "Ja feels nerfed compared to JO" but don't just say "JA is nerfed." Again...patience. I cannot stress this enough. Stop screaming and TRY to formulate new startegies. Heck, try a new game mode if you think s/o ctf is THAT bad in JA. Maybe you'll like Siege, or Duel, or whatever. (Serious question here) By the way, nowhere in all this has saber throw come up. Wy is it that you can't throw your saber at an fc? Too little Force Power? (Serious question here) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Side Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by boinga1 (Serious question here) By the way, nowhere in all this has saber throw come up. Wy is it that you can't throw your saber at an fc? Too little Force Power? (Serious question here) Well any good cappers will have an guarder with em enegizing-healing em so 20-40 dmg wont help much + returner(people that throw their saber to the fc) are limited with force and even if u came up with the idea to energizing returner to enable em plenty of pull-throw u still gotta deal with the fc Healin and the fc wont just run away hes gonna turn 180 degre and push the crowd chasin him while hes bunny hopping Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
g//anarki Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by boinga1 Again...patience. I cannot stress this enough. Stop screaming and TRY to formulate new startegies. Heck, try a new game mode if you think s/o ctf is THAT bad in JA. Maybe you'll like Siege, or Duel, or whatever. I've been primarily playing siege and full weapons CTF. I have to say these are awsome gametypes but I really don't want to see the competitive ff/so CTF fall apart and die. I will probably never even play ff/so CTF competitively even if Raven patches it up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! -Explain to me the differences between all the guns (other than the conc) between Jedi Outcast and Jedi Academy. Simple search: damage is less or more per gun. I am not going to repeat what someone else has observed... Originally posted by the weiner dog! -Explain to me the differences between the single saber stance and it's three styles (fast/medium/heavy) in Jedi Outcast and Academy. Hit boxes are smaller or larger. Blocking is different. etc. Originally posted by the weiner dog! -Explain to me the differences between the Force Powers in Outcast and Academy. Different damages/benefits. You even said it yourself. Why are you asking me? Originally posted by the weiner dog! I can give you a few (all nerfs as I mentioned above). Rage+ speed bonus gone (nerf). Grip line of sight restriction (nerf). Basic specials have a 25 force penalty (nerf). New game. Not nerfs. Nerf implies there was something TO nerf. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Sniper gun has a delay penalty after zoom (nerf). Disproven by Kurgen and others. Again, please try to keep up. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Blah, blah, blah More of the same. "These are not the excuses you are looking for. Move along!" Originally posted by the weiner dog! I'm serious guy, tell me the difference. Unmitigated balderdash. I can't believe you are even a competitive player with the amount of whining drivel that's spewing forth from your account. A competitor is someone who COMPETES. You BEAT THE ODDS. Don't bitch at them. Oh, here's a nice quote FROM YOU in another thread: Originally posted by the weiner dog! -The good: Single player story. Multi player maps Multi player gun games (ctf/ffa) New player models Very low learning curve in multi player saber games (button mashing looks really cool this time around) The bad: All multi player full force saber only game types (ffa/duel/ctf/pd/teamffa) are totally unbalanced. You can heal/team heal at almost 3 times the rate you can cause damage, thus making virtually every game a stalemate. A lot of nerfing, much more than Jedi Outcast had. even basic special moves require force now, grip is useless, no kicking other than the ineffective saber stance kicks, slower physics like the nerfed rolling, much lower damage sabers than 1.04 Jedi Outcast had (when in saber only game types), need I continue or did you get the point yet? Why should I tell you what's different when you've already enumerated them in another thread? :quesbrn: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jello123 Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 we have a new Al fantastic heh i could probably say you dont know what you're arguing for anymore just analyzing posts..dude quit that **** are OMG TWO VOWELS IN A WORD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by [div3rse.jello] OMG TWO VOWELS IN A WORD. 4r3 Happy now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider AL Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 w3rd. Do stop flaming everyone just because you don't agree with them and/or cannot argue with them rationally Jello. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guardian Omega Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Er, Furion, most of that can be modded usually, notably the weapon damage part......... But I'm going to sit back and watch the flames! Although I don't believe Raven tested the game well enough (which is why I like open MP tests), I'll see the rest of this topic....... *adds wood* MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardent Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by Side Well any good cappers will have an guarder with em enegizing-healing em so 20-40 dmg wont help much + returner(people that throw their saber to the fc) are limited with force and even if u came up with the idea to energizing returner to enable em plenty of pull-throw u still gotta deal with the fc Healin and the fc wont just run away hes gonna turn 180 degre and push the crowd chasin him while hes bunny hopping I'll translate Side's Frenglish. Most competitive level players work together cohesively to make an FC a harder target. A truly successful FC/defender pair will be able to keep the FC uninjured for the duration of his hold. Most returners, even (perhaps even especially) at a competitive level, are playing a game of run and hit. With a target that's actively evading you, you have to be thinking one step ahead or employing an ability that works at range (grip, saber throw, lightning...) Pull-throw is one of the most common and trusted techniques used by returners (although IMHO not one of the better ones) but because it can't do a significant amount of damage quickly, it has to be employed with precision. Experienced returner teams work together to split the FC and his defender(s). One person, usually the person best at kicking or red dfa leading, takes off after the FC while the other returner(s) keep the defender(s) distracted...or at least keep depleting their Force so they can't assist that way. One of the best ways to break this sort of tactic up in JO was kicking. Kicking was almost never the primary mode of offense. It was a tool used to allow people, particularly returners, to make the kill. Defensively, it was employed to spectacular effect defending the flag. Without it, a defender is relegated to slashing about randomly and hoping the enemy capper is dumb enough to jump in. I was playing a little FF CTF (not S/O since I can't find a server yet) today. Aside from a few hiccups with my level knowledge not being what it should, I don't think I was ever returned on. I could take their flag for a cruise around the level and not lose much more than 20 health at a round. Considering I can just heal myself or grab a medpac, that's garbage. Returning was a lot harder. I basically had to get lucky. I either had to push them off a ledge or nail them, mostly by accident, with a few attacks in a row (I didn't use guns except to rocket-hop or the like). That's pretty ridiculous if you ask me. If this is a game of skill (which it is, theoretically), luck should not be my primary mode of success. Even if I consider myself a lucky individual. My primary mode of success should be skill. SKILL. There's no skill in returning in JA CTF. It's "better lucky than good" in attitude and effect. Which is silly. Why even create a new game if you're just going to dumb down the existing gameplay? Why not just release a beta build of JO and call it a job well done? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
the weiner dog! Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by FurionStormrage Simple search: damage is less or more per gun. I am not going to repeat what someone else has observed... translation: I can't think of anything so I'm going to play it off by being evasive. Hit boxes are smaller or larger. Blocking is different. etc. wrong again. Ask any NF duelist, the same block/parry system, the same swings, all the same, every bit of it. Try again little buckaroo. Telling me that ghoul2 is now on by default does not make those swings any different. Different damages/benefits. You even said it yourself. Why are you asking me? translation: I'm avoiding the direct challenge for me to specifically note the differences between all these things in case no one has noticed. Either that or I’m a total noob who did not even really know how they worked in the last game to comment New game. Not nerfs. Nerf implies there was something TO nerf. take the same exact move, weaken it. That is by definition a nerf. Grip is 100% the exact same move it was in JK2. No different in any way shape or form. Put a line of sight restriction on it, the move is still identical other than the nerf. Disproven by Kurgen and others. Again, please try to keep up. proved by the best gunners, (and multiple ones at that) in this game and it's predecessor from the twl leagues, you try to keep up. You have a lot more to learn about this stuff than I do. More of the same. "These are not the excuses you are looking for. Move along!" again he avoids a direct challenge to point out how the many guns, powers and swings are any different by just rambling but never stating a single point that will validate his argument. Unmitigated balderdash. I can't believe you are even a competitive player with the amount of whining drivel that's spewing forth from your account. A competitor is someone who COMPETES. You BEAT THE ODDS. Don't bitch at them. Undefeated in ladder/league play in Jedi Outcast. Actually, not only undefeated, I’ve never had a single opponent score over 4 kills in a 10 round match in official tournament play on me. I have played and beaten every single American and European Full Force duelist that was ever considered to be “the best” in Jedi Outcast. (break_dF still kicked my ass more than I did his though /cry) Now considering that you still think this is a new game and every thing is totally different, it would be safe to say I know nothing about this game right? Let’s do a match, me and you. Since it’s only been out a week you and I must be of equal skill level right? I mean there is no way I could transfer my experience from Jedi Outcast into this game right? I mean as you claim, all the powers, and saber mechanics are totally different now right? Serious guy, me, you 1v1. Want to make an ass out of yourself and give me a chance to post my first humiliation demo of Jedi Academy on these forums (something I did quite often in Outcast when people ran off at the mouth)? heh, what did Artifex call it back in 1.02? "My bitch of the week screenshots" or something like that when noobs would smack talk him? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FurionStormrage Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by the weiner dog! translation: I can't think of anything so I'm going to play it off by being evasive. Really tiring to hear you talk to yourself. Originally posted by the weiner dog! wrong again. Ask any NF duelist, the same block/parry system, the same swings, all the same, every bit of it. Try again little buckaroo. Telling me that ghoul2 is now on by default does not make those swings any different. Happens to be contrary to what everyone EXCEPT YOU says on this forum. Try again. Originally posted by the weiner dog! translation: I'm avoiding the direct challenge for me to specifically note the differences between all these things in case no one has noticed. Either that or I’m a total noob who did not even really know how they worked in the last game to comment What challenge? There's no opponent TO challenge in this debate -- I can't even call it a debate because I am not even trying to (you could say that I am master debating with both hands tied behind my back). Originally posted by the weiner dog! take the same exact move, weaken it. That is by definition a nerf. Grip is 100% the exact same move it was in JK2. No different in any way shape or form. Put a line of sight restriction on it, the move is now identical other than the nerf. Sorry, different game. What's nerfed again? I am wondering which JA version you have? The illegal warez? Originally posted by the weiner dog! proved by the best gunners, (and multiple ones at that) in this game and it's predecessor from the twl leagues, you try to keep up. You have a lot more to learn about this stuff than I do. Sure, my perusal through the Quake source code wouldn't tell me anything about how the game works. "You, my friend, still have much to learn." Originally posted by the weiner dog! again he avoids a direct challenge to point out how the many guns, powers and swings are any different by just rambling but never stating a single point that will validate his argument. Considering that you yourself are disproving your own remarks every time you use your account, why should I apply any effort in a debate? Originally posted by the weiner dog! Undefeated in ladder/league play in Jedi Outcast. Actually, not only undefeated, I’ve never had a single opponent score over 4 kills in a 10 round match in official tournament play on me. I have played and beaten every single American and European Full Force duelist that was ever considered to be “the best” in Jedi Outcast. Oh, wow! You can play the game! Still doesn't change the fact that you cannot form a logical argument to save your hide. Here's a hint for you: Your sabre skills are better than your rapier wit. Translation: become a better debater before applying fingers to keyboard. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Now considering that you still think this is a new game and every thing is totally different, it would be safe to say I know nothing about this game right? Setting up a rhetorical question to make yourself look like a newb. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Let’s do a match, me and you. Since it’s only been out a week you and I must be of equal skill level right? I mean there is no way I could transfer my experience from Jedi Outcast into this game right? I mean as you claim, all the powers, and saber mechanics are totally different now right? Serious guy, me, you 1v1. Translation: the whiner dog just got skewled in a debate and feels the only way to win is by playing a SABRE game. I am not interested in winning a sabre battle with you. I am interested in leaving the source code of this game unchanged due to you not understanding the dynamics of the CODE. Originally posted by the weiner dog! Want to make an ass out of yourself and give me a chance to post my first humiliation demo of Jedi Academy on these forums (something I did quite often in Outcast when people ran off at the mouth)? I make an ass out of myself in the game all the time due to not being as 133+ of a player as some people. My skills on the floor, or lack thereof, mean NOTHING to the outcome of this debate (if it can be called that). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dyehead Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 I'm sorry Furion, but grip has been nerfed You used to be able to grab someone behind a corner and hold them so they couldn't get out of it (without absorb) Now, anyone, skilled or not can easily pull or push you when you grip, because as soon as you put someone behind a corner, pillar, wall, you name it, the grip is broken. The only difference between level 2 and 3 grip, is you can move (albeit slowly). The only thing changed in grip was to make it less useful, hence being called a nerf. DFA was made less useful from 1.02 - 3, so that's called being nerfed. Not trying to insult you, but maybe we have a different idea of what the word nerfed means. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ardent Posted September 25, 2003 Share Posted September 25, 2003 Originally posted by dyehead Not trying to insult you, but maybe we have a different idea of what the word nerfed means. He's still of the opinion you're talking out of your anus about JA being built on the same basic code JO is, unnamed. I don't think his definition of nerfed is even in account here, but his opinion of reality probably is. Let's work on the facts here: JO and JA are both built on the Q3ARaven engine. So they have at least that in common. But that's not the only place we see that they have things in common. They share the same foundations of the saber code. They share the same foundations of the Force code. Obviously there has been work done to make improvements, but by the same token, there's been a lot of nerfing done. We're not asking for something we couldn't do ourselves, which would put you guys in essentially the same position you're trying to avoid now: your list of "acceptable" servers would diminish. Lemme be blunt: that's going to happen no matter what. As the casual gamers become disenfranchised of the game (when HL2 is released or when Doom 3 is released or when Kerpoppi the video game is released or whatever) and leave, they take their servers with them more often than not. The servers that stick around tend to belong to the clans that have a vested stake in the game; consistantly competitive clans who are active on the ladders, i.e. us. In order to play with other people, rather than bots, you'd have to download our mod and then abide by all the other additions our mod makes. We're just asking Raven to add the cvar so we don't HAVE to go make a mod. We probably will anyway (I'm certain Hex will at least...the original xmod did a lot more than let us turn off stuff we didn't like and turn on things we liked), but you shouldn't have to download an independently-produced mod for a game to be enjoyable for everyone. In a good game, any given person should be able to find and have access to something they like. We know the old kick code is still there and we like it and we just want access to it. Understand? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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