guns jk2 and jk3 differencese

[lllKyNeSlll]

http://www.geocities.com/lllkyneslll/gunsdemos.zip

http://www.geocities.com/andrew_xtra/gunsdemos.zip

^^2 demos that show proof of what i say in the paragraph below

if one doens't work use the other link

make a folder in base directory called /demos (../base/demos)

 

 

For gunning, the major difference is the lack of a large hitbox. This is a mixed blessing because of the fact it truely separates the accurate from the non (good), but it also is somewhat extreme in the fact many flechette shots that barely touch someone (which would have hit in jk2) miss someone completely. Furthermore, shots aimed at the legs miss even more.

 

the main problem with the new tenloss is that the scope takes way too long to deactivate after a shot. This makes it hard to fight closer range wiht a disruptor. The lack of a hit box is good with most weapons but with this one its almost impossible to hit with, rendering this weapon near useless. No its not that i have bad accuracy, with nutri's exception, i doubt any one has better accuracy than me on lucasforum.

 

There is no other major problem except possibly the repeater should have greater splash damage.

[GoJiTa]

No its not that i have bad accuracy, with nutri's exception, i doubt any one has better accuracy than me on lucasforum.

No offense but don't kid yourself lol, your aiming is good but it's not in anyway amazing.

 

But anyway, I think it was a mistake to remove hitboxes, it would be okay if this game had guns where the speed of the projectile through the air was fast, but with the exception of the disruptor the speed of the shots is extremely slow.

 

This style of hit-detection is more suited to games like Enemy Territory, and SoF2 etc. and not a game like jka.

 

The scope on the Tenloss is annoying, but I can understand to a certain extent why it has been made like this.

 

I personally feel that if this new hit detection system is going to work then damage on all of the weapons needs to be ramped up, or ammo cost lowered or something. If it is so hard to make hits then you should be at least rewarded with high damage.

[the weiner dog!]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the "new" system is just ghoul2 right (or a tweaked version of it)?

 

It was in outcast and, well as far as sabers went, you got erratic results at best when enabled.

 

I play SoF 2 and when dealing with "realism" shooters it's great.

 

But the way this series plays, with the powers (like speed and force jump) and all, would not having this type of system cause a “DoD" (HL WW2 mod) effect?

 

As in, if you want to get off a decent shot you pretty much need to come to a grinding halt.

 

Even a weapon like the disruptor is not a "pin point accuracy" weapon like the typical sniper rifles in other games; it has a much larger "shot" effect.

 

Is this new system even really needed to begin with?

 

Just curious, I'm by no means an expert on jk2/ja guns but with no pin point accuracy weapons and game play much faster than other shooters (due to force powers) why even have it?

[Kurgan]

I have yet to watch those demos, and I didn't have any problem adjusting to the new guns myself (not yet anyway), but my guess (assuming you're right) is that they did it because of Siege.

 

In a lot of games you're going to be playing as and facing people with limited force or no force whatsoever.

 

So the effect of the powers is diminished or nonexistent, and thus "realistic" shooting comes back into play.

 

You're slow, so you want to hit accurately, get a head shot for the kill, etc. Or else it's just spammy with no reason for it.

 

I know location based damage can be turned off, I *thought* the rest of the stuff could be tweaked as well, but I could be wrong, I haven't messed with all the settings.

 

Sabers are no problem, they seem to hit whenever I want them to.

 

I have NOT noticed this so-called "new lag" with the Disruptor. I saw something like it once or twice in Siege when playing as a Sniper Scout, but never anywhere else. Maybe it's just my imagination (or your's).

[Emon]

So, about the hitboxes, you're basically complaining that you cannot aim. Go you.

[Sam]

You know using force seeing makes all the repeater/blaster rifle shots go in a straight line......Right?

[GoJiTa]

weiner dog:

 

You're totally right about this system being great in realism shooters, because in most of the more realistic games the bullets travel at high speed and find their target quickly. jka on the other hand.. lol, put force_speed on and you can out strafe jump ALL the weapons except for the disruptor and concussion rifle.

 

Not to mention the fact that even clear hits on the model sometimes fly straight through.

 

Also great point bringing up the issue of game speed, people move bloody fast in jk2 and jka, good luck hitting someone in jka with the golan, hell, even the Disruptor, when they are strafe jumping at excessive speeds. The new hit system requires far too much precision for the weapons that are in the game.

 

 

Emon:

 

Hush up clueless troll, if you knew anything about this game you'd understand why this is an issue. Plus if you don't want to add anything constructive, like you even could anyway, leave this thread and troll somewhere else.

 

As for the remark about me being unable to aim, total crap, I can aim fine and am racking up kills with absolutely no problem. I am just addressing the issue of this game having extremely poor weapon attributes when looking at the games hit detection system.

[lllKyNeSlll]

Originally posted by vert1go

No offense but don't kid yourself lol, your aiming is good but it's not in anyway amazing.

 

haha, ur right but i said lucasforums though, not the competitive gunning. And besides my aim is terrible in jk3 ill admit that because its so different.

[idontlikegeorge]

Originally posted by vert1go

weiner dog:

 

You're totally right about this system being great in realism shooters, because in most of the more realistic games the bullets travel at high speed and find their target quickly. jka on the other hand.. lol, put force_speed on and you can out strafe jump ALL the weapons except for the disruptor and concussion rifle.

 

Not to mention the fact that even clear hits on the model sometimes fly straight through.

 

Also great point bringing up the issue of game speed, people move bloody fast in jk2 and jka, good luck hitting someone in jka with the golan, hell, even the Disruptor, when they are strafe jumping at excessive speeds. The new hit system requires far too much precision for the weapons that are in the game.

B]

 

 

Actually, I found these to be pretty good points. Until the personal attacks against Emon - sure I didn't like him either when I was an ignorant newbie, but he knows what he's talking about.

 

In any case, yeah, the projectiles are absurdly slow in this, you mention out strafe jump all weapons with force speed - hell, blasters I can dodge without speed!

 

I don't play MP, and rarely use guns enough to really see how bad/good the hit detection with guns are - I know in JO I would put down an immense field of fire on a single doorway, and have three troopers run through without a single hit.

 

But in any case, I can see more detailed hitboxes really sucking with lame guns. But that doesn't mean the hitboxes need to be "devolved" to a simpler thing. In any case, the weapons and projectiles need to be improved.

 

But also, this all requires gameplay changes. And we all know what gameplay patches can do to a game. So how about quit bitching and just adapt to the new style, if you have to play with guns so bad.

[lllKyNeSlll]

NOw that i tried it again an ffa where i just happened to meet up with BF-phoenix and i don't know how i came out leading so much, its not that bad. We both noticed the gunning was way different. I just have to use mainly rockets and repeater since flechette hardly hits. For ctf though the item placement really gets me. On hoth u have to run up and go through the window to get the repeater and come down. Therefore, the main weapon i woudl say there would be rockets and just mass suicide if you play d to keep getting the rockets

[Luc Solar]

Great - Kynes started a thread about guns. I was about to do that myself.

 

Here's a few thoughts about guns from a guy (me) who has vast experience about JA gunning. Yeah... I played 15-20 minutes yesterday on an All Weapons FFA server so I know what I'm talking about.

 

No more hitboxes means a guy like me can't hit **** with the tenloss. Well, I didn't hit anything before either, but at least in JO I felt like I wasn't missing by much.

 

I don't really understand why they changed the tenloss the way they did. I've heard zero complaints about said gun in JO. Now you can move around while zooming, but.. who'd want to do that? What's the use?

 

In JO guns totally owned sabers. Now guns have been weakened significantly and I'm not just talking about the hitbox being history. The main reason why I think guns have become far less effective is: MAPS.

 

Imagine running around a 16 player FFA JO map Raven with the flechette in your hands. That spells 'total massacre'. It means 10 saberists killed/minute. Why? Because saberists have nowhere to go. A cramped hallway filled with bouncing explosives = certain death.

 

In Jedi Academy the maps are HUGE and spacious. Especially the flechette's alt fire is easy to dodge. Only a perfect hit kills.

 

Personally I think this is a good thing. I won't say that a saberist can *kill* the gunner now, but at least he has a chance to avoid getting slaughtered.

 

Also, I'm looking forward to being raped by those people who can actually hit stuff. In JA "good gunners" and "spam gunners" should be easy to tell apart. It's quite obvious which category I'll be in

[GoJiTa]

In any case, yeah, the projectiles are absurdly slow in this, you mention out strafe jump all weapons with force speed - hell, blasters I can dodge without speed!

I didn't mean dodging the shots, what I was saying was if I stand next to someone who has say, the Pistol, if they fire it I can slap on speed and strafe jump after it and overtake the shot effortlessly. To me thats absurd, and it's the same with most of the weapons.

 

Also, I'm looking forward to being raped by those people who can actually hit stuff. In JA "good gunners" and "spam gunners" should be easy to tell apart. It's quite obvious which category I'll be in

This is the only plus side from the new system, but it's not that good a thing, to be honest. I played ffa for a couple of hours last night, and due to the ultra-accurate aim required, I was only killed twice in about 15 rounds, embarassingly one of those kills was by a saber.

 

There was only a couple of other decent players in this ffa I'll admit, but getting killed only twice still indicates to me that the accuracy required is beyond a lot of peoples capability.

[GEEZus]

I would like to see more of the concusion rifle in maps and I think it should cost less ammo. The flak needs to be tweaked just a little and the the disruptor's scope needs to be fixed (maybe raven made it the way it is to punish the newbies that took over JK++ and made the disruptor the most unbalanced weapon in the game). One of the biggest problems I see with the way aim works in the game is when a shot goes through someone.. I've seen my rockets go through people and a lot of times bryar shots have gone through me.

Originally posted by Luc Solar

In JO guns totally owned sabers. Now guns have been weakened significantly and I'm not just talking about the hitbox being history. The main reason why I think guns have become far less effective is: MAPS.

 

Imagine running around a 16 player FFA JO map Raven with the flechette in your hands. That spells 'total massacre'. It means 10 saberists killed/minute. Why? Because saberists have nowhere to go. A cramped hallway filled with bouncing explosives = certain death.

Really?

Ya they were just a bunch of newbs during target practice, but you get the picture right? BTW servers need higher kill limits

[Luc Solar]

Jesus GEEZus!

 

That's gotta be against the rules somehow! That's gotta be, like... uhmm...wait! I got it: CHEATER! Script0r! Lamer! Rocket-Wh0re!