agonotheta Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 There is a simple solution to the 'huge' debate over jedi and permadeath. Here it is, plain and simple... When someone unlocks the slot and becomes vulnerable to perma-death by dying only a few times from ANYTHING that slaughters them, people argue that this is grossly unfair. I would have to agree, it is. The other vulnerabilities of a jedi, such as becoming targeted by all that witness a force power is a good thing, but perma-death by the hand of ANYTHING is a serious problem. With a 56k connection while I play, my character dies an average of 2 - 3 times per week (and I attack things that normally would not kill me ... I hunt conservatively but frequently to get credits and I get that ratio of death). So, you can see why I agree with people that say perma-death is a bad thing! Besides that, the journey to becoming a jedi will be difficult enough... So, here is how to solve the whole perma-death problem. Simply make it so ONLY another jedi of any rank (whether a player or NPC) can inflict perma-death on a player character. If that seems just to 'givey' then expand the bound so that NPC imperials or rebels could perma-death a player ... this way, as in the movies, a player may be 'persuaded' to join one side of the conflict or the other...to save themselves from perma-death in the heat of the moment. That seems to be a perfect solution. On the flip side, let's think about a jedi dying at the hand of a group of players that are not part of a faction.... As everyone knows, a player faction will cover a clone facility while the other part of that faction hunts down players to kill. As soon as the mobile group kills another player, he/she gets sent to a clone facility...but ALAS, the other part of the hunting group is already there and slaughters that person repeatedly as they try in vain to get away from the clone facility and the other group. Granted a normal player can die infinitely in this grossly unfair circumstances, but can you imagine a player as a jedi having this problem and only being able to die a few times before having to start COMPLETELY OVER?? In conclusion, yes, making the ability of inflicting perma-death on a player should be restricted to other jedi of any rank and/or NPC imperial / rebel factions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 Problem is, we would have alot more Jedi than there should be. Like I've said already a million times: You've bought a game in the wrong time period if you want to be a Jedi. Quote: "The Jedi Order are all extinct. Their fire has gone out in the universe." There's not supposed to be any Jedi left, but people want it, so the Devs are forced to add them. But, they can limit the number of Jedi to a bare minimum. How do you accomplish this? Perma Death. PS: I added a choice which was missing from the poll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 7, 2003 Share Posted October 7, 2003 There is now no such thing as Perma Death. You will now only lose all your skills as a Jedi if you die so and so many times, but it's basically the same thing. But atleast you can keep your name. Don't know if that is any better, especially if you are already known as a Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deft Aklin Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 The key to avoiding this......me. /ponder on that for awhile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lord_Vessen Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Well you lose all your skills but you won't lose your lightsaber hopefully... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthfergie Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Originally posted by Lord_Vessen Well you lose all your skills but you won't lose your lightsaber hopefully... I would think that your character is restarted from square one. With your character being completely restarted. With perma death, it will be incredibly hard to keep your Jedi alive and to make him good. He will need a constant companion of meds and various others. And the likely training areas for his skills would be in a backwoods area of a not well used planet...but there is always one thing about that...many of the higher lvl and better equiped players go into the deep woods. I've been completely alone on top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere, only to have a group of 3 Master Marks with a few pets walk up and sit in my camp to recover some. So you never know. A jedi will deffinatly be an exiting character to play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agonotheta Posted October 8, 2003 Author Share Posted October 8, 2003 It could be interesting to allow Jedi in the game that are not, what everyone considers, to be hack-n-slash. That is, if one wants to be that type of Jedi, then they would seek that type of Jedi character. But for others, perhaps there is a variation of Jedi that would never seek any type of combat. This type of Jedi would have a mastery in non-combat skills....perhaps additional abilities towards crafting skills, business skills or something of that nature and has no combat skills. Naturally, a combat oriented Jedi would never possess the skills of a non-combat Jedi and visa-versa.... This could be an interesting thing to consider... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EsahC Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 IF i ever become a jedi, I will find a remote place no one goes to (Plenty on talus) ;-) and train away. There fire is out, but there is still sparks like Master Yoda and Mr Skywalker. Speaking of which has anyone seen either of them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 8, 2003 Share Posted October 8, 2003 Master Yoda is on Dagobah, so I would imagine meeting him would be rather difficult ingame. Luke, no, not seen him. Not seen Han, Leia, Vader, Chewie, etc... either yet. Seen Jabba and Co. though, and Boba Fett I believe. Oh, and I came across Trackan Sal-Solo in one of the guildhalls in Coronet to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GSR_Yoda Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 there may be a dagobah.. as you grow in the force maybe ben kenobi shows up and gives you the coordinates Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarCords Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Gnothi... you must go to the Dagobah system....at exactly +2222 -2222. There you will find Yoda, the Jedi Master who instructed me. Takes out a lot of the mystique, doesn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Avia'ull Doesa Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 One of the Temples on Dantooine is supposed to be a house that Luke trained/lived in. I beleive it is the one with the 2 glowing jewels in the basement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breetai Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 Deft, I have read your post and I know what your key to avoiding this is. To bad we play on differant server's, or I would give you a call ( if I became a Jedi ). I have seen Leia, Han, Chewy, Boba Fett, and Jabba, but I have not found Luke. Of course I have not been looking for him as I have been busy trying to find Lt. Lance. My internet will be back up today. Thank goodness. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jan Gaarni Posted October 9, 2003 Share Posted October 9, 2003 I just thought of something: He (Luke) may be in Ben's old house on Tatooine. That may be the reason why you can't enter it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Breetai Posted October 10, 2003 Share Posted October 10, 2003 My internet company pushed back when I would have my internet back up. It will not be back on untill the 16th now. Stupid DSL. I am about to give roadrunner a call. Well about luke. I realy do not think so. Why I say that is because I think luke will be the last one to give you mission's ( I could be wrong, this is just what I think ) for the rebal's. If I am wrong about this, then Luke will have something to do with the Jedi's, but at this pont Luke was not a Jedi, so I do not see how he would be involved with the Jedi's. Luke has to be in the game somewhere. People that have found Luke, Lt. Lance or even the hermit, do nothen but keep their mouth's shut about it and does not want to give the info away. I guess they want other people to find it like they had to find it, but I do not see why Lt. Lance is such a secret. I know people have finished the Rebal theme park, so them people know the answer's to wether Luke is involved with the rebal's or with the jedi's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agonotheta Posted October 10, 2003 Author Share Posted October 10, 2003 For the main character that I use, I have already found myself in situations where, for instance, I will be in the MIDDLE of huge cities and RED NPC's somehow find me and attack my character. The latest example was on Coronet, Corellia...I was at the bazaar center (roughly 15 - 20 minutes) going through items, making sales, etc and BAM...an NPC started attacking. A lot of players were in the immediate area, too. Mince witnessed what had transpired and was suprised by it. I was too, because for all the time I had spent at that particular city, at that particular location, I had never been attacked by anything or even seen any attackable NPC in the area. Anyway, this simple senario may shed some light on players having the capacity to place a bounty on your head and hire an NPC to hunt you down...or other BH players. If this develops and a BH will be able to hunt you down as a Jedi (since they are a player)...should the ability of him/her to attack a Player Jedi once they locate one be a consent requirement before any attacking occurs? Although this may lend to the challenge of being a Jedi, if an attack did not require consent...I fear that the few Jedi that do exist will be constantly hunted by BH's...in rather short order, given the current thinking on Jedi, a player who had worked up to being a Jedi would have to start over again. Should a guild(s) have BH's and they track down a player jedi, and can attack on a non-consent basis...think of this senario (assuming no consent is needed prior to a BH being able to attack a player jedi)... 1. A BH is part of a guild. 2. A BH is able to locate a player jedi. 3. The BH alerts his/her guild members. They, most likely, will come to the BH. 4. The BH initiates attack against the player jedi. 5. The player jedi responds (if in jedi fashion, with a light saber or some other unique power as a RPG player may attempt). 6. TEF is activated on the player jedi. 7. The BH's guild members that could not attack the player jedi can now attack him as well as ANYTHING else in the area (as it stands now...speaking of which...have you voted on the poll above?). 8. The probability, dependant on the strength of guild members (which usually are pretty high anyway), is that the player Jedi will be slaughtered ... and off to a cloning facility ... where, if other guild members are there could slaughter him/her again .... again ... again In this senario, the work around may be to allow a BH to hire a NPC to hunt a Jedi instead and get a mail about success / failure (if the BH ability gets this far), leave it as consentual, or not give that ability in the first place. I do believe, once someone is a jedi, he/she will be added to a LOT of friends lists in game as word spreads...even close friends of a jedi may find it challenging to keep such prestigous knowledge to themselves as they feel they can trust other people met in the game. This type of thing (being added to lots of players friends lists) could further compound a player jedi's ability to enjoy the game ... and, if BH is allowed to freely hunt jedi players, could make a player jedi's time rather short because he (as well as others) can use the friend's list to know when a player jedi is online, and know when to pick up a hunt.... Just something to think about for future Jedi... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SD_ReBoRN__ Posted October 12, 2003 Share Posted October 12, 2003 No matter what the case, Bounty Hunters should be able to inflict perma death to the Jedi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agonotheta Posted October 14, 2003 Author Share Posted October 14, 2003 For those of you who keep tabs on locations of jedi NPCs, I had the luck of finding a Dark Jedi Master on Tantooine a few days ago. He was rather remote and I only found him because I was looking for hard to find pets. Unless he's been killed or moved, I found him almost at the edge of the map to the south east...yes, WAY out there standing on top of one of those wide canyon tops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agonotheta Posted October 21, 2003 Author Share Posted October 21, 2003 The poll for this debate is turning out better than I expected. The anoying popups for media player, however, are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
agonotheta Posted October 22, 2003 Author Share Posted October 22, 2003 The debate for just how vulnerable jedi should be, from a player's point of view (as of 10.22.03), is almost a 50-50 split. Here is the rough break-down based on the poll located at the top of this page: 46.35% of Players Believe - Jedi should only be able to be killed by other Player Jedi, Player IMP/REB, NPC Jedi, and/or NPC IMP/REB and inflict perma death. This could be beneficial because it would allow a player jedi to still hunt creatures (to collect credits, etc) - which probably consumes most of a player's game time - without having to worry about perma death (especially beneficial for those with modem connections that suffer frequent lag and die often because of that). 53.85% of Players Believe - Everything should be able to kill a Jedi including all creatures. Can you imagine running from something, lagging out next to a crazed durni lair and a crazed durni kills you...and since it is your third death, getting perma death? If everything is allowed to kill a Jedi and inflict perma death, one better have broadband and perhaps consider playing during times when most other players are not in game...to be as safe as possible. What do you think? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Salieh Maeh Posted October 24, 2003 Share Posted October 24, 2003 All this complaining about it being so hard to be a Jedi is pretty silly. It's supposed to be hard. There are only supposed to be a very few. It's supposed to discourage alot of people who even have the slot open from becoming a Jedi. If it was easy to be Jedi, everyone would be one and it would no longer be special. Not to mention the entire game would be completely boring then. In truth, I'd like to be a Jedi. I think about 90% of the people playing want to. But I would rather have just a few here and there and not be one myself, than have every server flooded with Jedi. And once I am a Jedi if I ever become one, I want it to be extremely hard. That's the way it should be - look at how it was in the movies and stuff. It should be extremely hard, and therefore extremely rewarding. And the rewards are much more than just pride. Once you advance in the rankings, you'll be able to kill anybody who does happen to attack you. Most likely you would be able to take on an entire hunting party without too much risk. I guess my point is, I really don't want anyone of you who's complaining about it being too hard to ever become a Jedi. You just want the cheap easy way out, and that's not what being a Jedi is about. It is the most rewarding thing in the entire game, and thus should be the most difficult. And especially at this time in the galaxy, it should border on impossability. Get over it - if you want it to not be impossibly hard, you'll never be a Jedi. Question: Can't a Jedi still be incapped? Doesn't perma-death (or the new equivilent) only apply to being slain? So if you can still be incapped, there still wouldn't be too much risk in attacking most creatures as long as you're far enough away from civilization that people wouldn't see your Jedi skills. Most of the creatures that slay are not the weak ones that you would be fighting when that would be a concern. Once you advance and take on more difficult creatures, your skills are better and you don't have much to worry about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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