SpaceButler14 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Balance issues I could care less about, but Akshara, those are major bugs at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merch Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Most Of The People Who Say The Game is great dont host servers, are'nt competitive in leagues or ladders and are in it for their own enjoyment, I personally think the game is fun, the bugs are'nt overly bad, but being in a clan myself, I was immiedietly turned off by the CTF and TFFA aspects of JA, hosting a server not on the master list is'nt cool for our clan (WoV) because many of our members connect via IP and sit idle waiting for people which is hopeless cause the server isnt on the master list, Its just dissapointing to see a game that hooked so many people in JKII turn off those same people it had managed to hook and look for new people. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 BTW i think ill stop reading this forum, beffore the major flaming starts. I'm starting to feel the exact same way... Akshara, those are major bugs at the very least. I have never said that the real bugs aren't serious and shouldn't be fixed... I'm simply sure that they will be because I know Raven's track record. All of my suggestions have simply been an attempt to make the current bad situation better instead of simply sitting around waiting for a fix. There's options that server admins could take to get their server more visible and get the word out, but very few want to put in the effort to do them and would rather simply throw stones at Raven until it's fixed. When I checked earlier, there were 1280 players online. While that's not CS standards, it's pretty darn good for a Monday night with a broken ingame browser. The point is people are finding a way to play, and there might be a few other reasons besides the ingame browser problem as to why a specific server isn't getting enough traffic. hosting a server not on the master list is'nt cool for our clan (WoV) because many of our members connect via IP and sit idle waiting for people which is hopeless cause the server isnt on the master list I understand that this makes it difficult for the clan/league guys... But why keep waiting when your clan members could simply get Qtracker and use QtUplink to start games. I know it's not perfect, but it works - is much more advanced than the ingame browser - and will get you guys online today. Then this whole situation in your Clan's case becomes a non-issue. Besides the clan/league problems, here's the two things I don't get... 1) Most of the people using the ingame browser are newbies unfamiliar with the Q3 experience, or who haven't seriously played a previous Raven game. Anyone who has knows there are browser alternatives out there, and would find one. Meanwhile, the biggest "other" complaint around here is with having to deal with newbies who spam Katas, butterlfys, and basically make the game unenjoyable... so which is it? Are the newbies welcome and wanted or not? 2) In all prior Raven releases, even with the working ingame server browser, most players use Gamespy, All Seeing Eye, Qtracker, or Pathfinder anyway because of the enhanced features and Buddy finding system. Gamespy is probably the most popular server browser buddy/chat system in the world. Are you seriously telling me that 80% of the people who played EF:Voy and JK2 used the ingame browser only? I've heard all the comments that everybody's server fills up when it's available in the ingame browser... but isn't it entirely possible that it's not because it's available that people visit, but because the others no longer are? Why are you so sure that when the ingame browser works properly that of the 600+ servers available yours will be constantly full now that there's another 599 servers in the list, hmmm? Maybe this situation is an opportunity to fine tune your server to attract people before the competition really begins. I know the ingame browser is a serious problem. It just seems like people are fixating on it a little bit more than is necessary. It's hard for me to believe that once the ingame browser works, all of the server attendance problems will simply disappear. Seems just a little too convenient a solution to me. And it still doesn't answer the question why those who are using Gamespy, ASE, and QT aren't visiting your server either. Its just dissapointing to see a game that hooked so many people in JKII turn off those same people it had managed to hook and look for new people. And here we get to a little more honest level of discussion... ever consider that LA might not want the current JK2 community to take over JA? Whether one likes to admit it or not, the whole Clan/League thing really scares off new people. I mean they did release it as a new game, and not simply as an expansion or upgrade to JO. Maybe there was a reason for that. It does seem like it's being targeted to a much younger audience than JO was; and parents in general are cautious of their kids joining some online "Clan" because it's somewhat ganglike or cultish. That's a whole lot more important to the LucasArts board of directors than having Red DFA un-nerfed for league play. So maybe... just maybe... they'd like for the whole Clan/League thing to quietly disappear from this game. It's worth considering, and not quite as far fetched as one might believe... Think about it long enough, and it makes sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merch Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 wow, i dont even know what to say, theres so many people that want change, and I dont understand why that hasnt been accomplished, I dont understand why LA would try and hold back Raven from making the game great, I mean if the game was great, more people would buy it wouldnt they? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 It depends on the target audience. While the Clans/Leagues are a loyal audience, they're a relatively small one in the entire sales demographic. They can keep a game alive, but they also require a lot of maintenance. That patch debacle with JO took a lot of manpower and resources that somebody had to pay for. I wouldn't be surprised at all if LA would like for that to not happen here. Honestly, JA doesn't seem as if it's being targetted toward the JO veteran community at all. It feels like they're trying to start a totally new series targetted at a much younger audience. Beyond the server fix and basics bugs, I'd be surprised if they change much of the gameplay basics to better suit competitive play. Just my feeling though. In the end it will depend on whether LA deems it an expense worth investing in or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by SpecialForces PS: Another ps...... FK fallen I mean Fk unnamed, you allways won with kicking all the time in JO what do you use in JA????? they don't play it (well uj goes around with td's and detpacks in saber only games...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 they don't play it Yeah... I've begun to notice that many of the compaints are from people who either a) don't play JA very much if at all, b) have only played MP a few times and given up, or c) don't even own a copy of the game. Of course there are a lot who do play it all the time, but I've come across posts from many on this forum who have admitted one of the above... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SpaceButler14 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 I own the game and play it a good bit. I like the game a lot. Still, with all the bugs it's like $50 expired meat. I am becoming very angry. I think that marvelous track-record has just been broken my friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Akshara Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Are you hosting your own server? Otherwise, which bugs are you referring to? I own the same game and rarely come across any player bugs, either in SP or MP, even with an ATI graphics card... why is my copy so different? I'm not being sarcastic... I really would like to hear what bugs are making you so angry that you can't enjoy the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 KURGAN said it right at the start, this is nothing more than catharsicism..... To all you kids, that means "whining in a grown up way"....this is how you deal with frustration when you get older.... MTFBWYA *resumes reading NJO : TFP, still in waiting for KOTOR* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Comm539 Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 For what its worth, i agree with sokar. And for the record, here's my prediction: A lot of new or just bad players start to play JA, find its hella lot easier than JO (due to almost random saber physics) and think "hey i ownz at this game." No doubt many will join clans, will practice and eventually will get better. Then they'll realise what JO competetive players have been saying all along. There are gaping chasms filled with flaws that mean to play this game on a higher, competetive level is impossible. As a result, there can be no competetive level. No competetive level = no clans to run servers and an entire community of casual 'noobs'. no clans to run servers and an entire community of casual 'noobs' = dead game Unless Raven supports the community with a patch to solve competetive play, ASWELL AS the SDK, i believe the above will come true (as it has for countless other games). btw I am infallible. Gf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan My question is... have you sent this letter to anyone at Raven, or are you just posting it here as a "cathersis"? Because there's no shortage of "complaint threads" already on here because of the lack of an official patch. Just curious... I have been bitch'n on Raven's forums for over a month now! And only recently did they indicate that the problem is that they are not authorized to release a patch until Lucas gives the okay and that they do have a patch ready to fix this problem.. I think they finally got tired of all the complaints. So now I have moved over here to start bitch'n to LEC to release the patch. I figure if both lucas and raven get tired of the complaints they will get their thumbs out their ***** and release a patch already! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by WadeV1589 Well that was new... ....I think maybe your "letter" needs to be toned down somewhat. It may make valid points but in the end it comes down to you saying you hate Raven's attitude towards the community and will try and stop people buying their stuff which won't go down well with anyone. Hehe.. flamed.. Hell I would have made it nastier. I spent hundreds on updating my jk2 server so I could handle more players in JA. However, its all been wasted as I should have waited on the hardware until the game actually worked. If it every will work.. at this point I have my doubts. Why allow such a serious flaw for this long unless your purposly trying to harm the jedi community. After all the community needs servers.. the people who are hosting these servers are not happy.. they stop hosting them.... pretty simple equation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by razorace Well, that's true. Some of the Raven staff is very helpful by answering questions. However, that needs to be supplimented by a patch for the major issues and a SDK release to be honest about their statement of better mod support. Beyond that, everything is opinion. It would be great if we had some official documentation on stuff, but we can figure it out...eventually. I totally agree with you. Raven is at fault, IMHO, as they should have seen this in the testing phase. WHen you add any kind of filtering in the sever list you should test to make sure that it works. Obviously they didnt even test it. A simple frig'n test. But now that its released I am not sure where the hold is with this frig'n bug fix. Obvsiously it probably has been fixed by Raven.. and obvsiously raven shoudl think that this is a serious enough bug to release it right away. So now if its true that LEC is holding up on the patch, then they are both to blame. But Raven should never have released a game with such a stupid flaw. Just one frig'n test would have shown that they had this glitch. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Kurgan ... Now, I'm not going to close this discussion because I know it's full of legitimate beefs people are having. Why pay to run a server when 95% of the people who own the game can't even see it? That's a major problem and it needs to be remedied as soon as possible. Having an exploit like the Rocket Bug or a bugged skin is one thing, but not allowing most people to play multiplayer (unless they use unsupported third party programs that they may or may not know where to get or how to use) is unaccceptable. ... Wowza! I am so glad you totally understand. I too could care less about any game type bugs which they seemed to roll out patches for jk2 just fine. But when JA got released with the serious server list flaw and now no support at all on it. It is totally baffeling me. I completely do not understand why they do not get it like you do. Its kind of a simple equation. You keep the server admins happy first.. then the gammers.. Cause the server admins are the ones who spend the big bucks to host these games. Piss them off? Where you going to play? Doesn't anyone from Lucas read these forums? I have emailed them via their little stupid support thing and got zippo response on this issue. Also did lost of rants on Raven's boards and it seems odd that both are so tight lipped right now. My only guess is that someone who is in charge wants this game to die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by {R^S}eniaC{JC} but the fact is I really don't think the "involved parties" really give a hoot about MP, due to the fact that most of their paychecks are payed by children asking mommy and daddy for a Star Wars game for the holidays, guess whats right around the corner, and you guys think it's going to get better.... ... Most companies with superior costomer service/sastisfaction arethe one that thrive for years(except most don't have the Star wars name to sell it. ... That is a great point that I wish LA/LEC would understand. Hell T2 was release what 2 years ago? And its still more popular than JA is and it was relased 2 months ago. Granted T2 was geared around MP. But LA has a winner in MP if they would just learn from other MP communities. Hell I still see T2 on sale in the shelves of game stores. It's simple.. Encourage the MP community and you will sell even more copies. They should have realized this this from the disappointing sales and reviews they got with the SP version of JK2 on XBox. Oiy.. what dump arses... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by FK | unnamed ... How many of you bought this game and many other star wars games in the last few years *just because they were star wars games? ... Well our clan is based around JK1. However, when I started I was playing Tribes. I only like GOOD MP FPS games that offer good strats and fun play. Also a good community. Obviously you have to look over the noobs in this community because of the SW factor.. but yes I bought JK2 soley because our clan wanted to get back to our roots. Boy.. it was fun for a while. A bit bumpy through the patches but all in all it was worth the money. JA is totally worthless to me right now because we can't draw in any public players in our server so you see only the same players you played with in JK2. Its pretty sad. I can tell you this I have never bought a previous SW game even though I love SW. I just thought I'd really get into SW FPS. But man have they messed up. Now.. when they release JK4 or their next SW FPS I will not buy it at 2am on release date and zoom up to my hosting company to install the server. Next time I will sit and see how big the community is before I spend money on another SW FPS. I KNOW I am not the only one either. So really they only can rely on what you say and hope they get the fanatical fans. But they have alienated a bunch of FPS gammers who even like SW but won't invest in this pile of crap again. So they will definetly lose money. After all I know they have seen a big hit in the sales compaired to JK2. Maybe that is why they are pulling the plug on the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Tyler_Durden ... Add to that there's no first person lightsaber ... Try "\cg_fps 1" in console. Yeah.. thats right.. First Person Sabers.. Why thell play in that? I have no idea. I play 3rd person with sabers and guns.. much much better! And to all of you who said the patch is a priv not a right. Your right.. but this game has been sold BROKEN. Yes they can still sell it the way it is but the MP community will never get off the ground. Like I said in previous post the MP community is only like 20% of what it was when JK2 was released. Geeze.. I wonder If I and the other server admins have grounds for a class action suite after spending money for the past 2 months on a server that isn't being listed. I spent the money on hosting it and buying a copy of JA. I want my money back! (look over license agreement) Damn license agreements! OH well.. I guess I'll just have to not buy their software anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rumor Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Akshara Yeah... I've begun to notice that many of the compaints are from people who either a) don't play JA very much if at all, b) have only played MP a few times and given up, or c) don't even own a copy of the game. Of course there are a lot who do play it all the time, but I've come across posts from many on this forum who have admitted one of the above... oh they played the game all right. they have put in more hours than you trying to find solutions to problems that we have with the game. fallen does not because he didn't want to waste $50 on a game that several of his clanmates went out and bought, then nearly threw away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tyler_Durden Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by BF_Hoby Try "\cg_fps 1" in console. Yeah.. thats right.. First Person Sabers.. Why thell play in that? I have no idea. I play 3rd person with sabers and guns.. much much better! And to all of you who said the patch is a priv not a right. Your right.. but this game has been sold BROKEN. Yes they can still sell it the way it is but the MP community will never get off the ground. Like I said in previous post the MP community is only like 20% of what it was when JK2 was released. Geeze.. I wonder If I and the other server admins have grounds for a class action suite after spending money for the past 2 months on a server that isn't being listed. I spent the money on hosting it and buying a copy of JA. I want my money back! (look over license agreement) Damn license agreements! OH well.. I guess I'll just have to not buy their software anymore. I meant for SP. I don't like MP. Although i have played very little JK2 MP i have kicked some ass in first person believe it or not. But this is all pretty moot. The game kind of seems a mediocrity like i said when the demo was released and i think another company with some balls and a better development team needs to take over this series and complete the thing with a minimum of bugs and maximum playability (yeah first person sabers, DAMMIT). The work done on this game and the work done to improve it is unacceptable. I'll probably get flamed as usual for my response but i don't give a sh*t. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Yeah.. but my beef is about the serverlist not game play.. I think the gameplay is fine.. If they change it I just adapt.. I dont mind the gameplay at all. I just think that if you have a serious MP bug that should be address immediately. Example: Linux 1.0 ded server had a serious MP flaw where using lightning would kill people instantly. They fixed that in just a few days and released a patch. Why are they not treating the MP server list with the same urgency???? It just does not make sense! Did Raven release that patch to the linux server without LA permission? If they get permission then why can't they do the same for the server list? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 And here is another thing that does not make sense to me but is based on forum rumors. If its true that the master server list is not showing correctly because they wanted to filter out the bootleg'd copy of JA, then that is just plain sad! Instead of that they should have just put in the same copy protection they used in JK2. Using CD Keys. Seems to be a good industry standard. I know that this is built into the q3 engine.. They just opted to not use it and build a custom filter in the server list. I could be wrong, but if two people with the same game and same cd key can not play on the same server right? That would help on warez!.. With no CD key the warez guys just need to take out their old boot leg copy and make a copy of the real retail release. There is no way to filter out those warez versions! So if it is true that Raven thought up this fitler thing then its was just a really bad idea. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by razorace Do we have any evidence that the community is fading quickly or is it just personal obversations? Dont have the evidence that you want but when jk2 came out the twl gaming community had about 50 teams in ctf 5 man. Now they have a ja 4man ctf ladder. This time there is less than 20. When they dropped the ladder with jk2 there was only like 15 teams. So they are very very thursty for some JA clans to join up but seems that the community is easily much smaller than it was when JK2 was released. I blame this on 2 main things: 1) Lots of jk2 players felt that JA is nothing more than just a new expansion pack for JK2. (BF42 added more stuff in just 1 of their 2 expansion packs they released ). 2) The master server issue turned a lot of players away from the game. Right now most of the 20 clans on the twl ladder are actually not active. Our team was able to forfeit win all the way up to almost rung #1. That is pretty sad.. That couldnt happen when JK2 was released. This game is much more dead than JK2 was. I just hope that the patch can put some life into it. THat is why I am here to bitch so that hopefully they will release the patch asap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 28, 2003 Share Posted October 28, 2003 Originally posted by Master William Sokar, do as you want, but you are really just picky, the bugs aren't that big of a deal. It seems to me you expect a perfectly fine game - which no game is. No.. the is the first game that I have seen that has a MP component that the ingame server list does not work. This is not something that is little or minor. This is about the worst thing you can do to a MP game. Luckily some people do have the brains to go out and get a 3rd party program to find some servers but this is no way little. I have a feeling you have no idea what it takes to host a server and put it behind some bandwidth and then see it not being used at all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BF_Hoby Posted October 29, 2003 Share Posted October 29, 2003 Originally posted by Akshara That's cool. But why don't more of the people who come here or that use QT and ASE? I've yet to use the ingame browser even one time personally - didn't even bother with it. Most of the people who seriously played JK2, or any other Q3 based game in the last several years, are aware that there are server browser alternatives out there. So here's a question for everybody... Why not simply add the following text the server's welcome page... "Please visit http://www.qtracker.com or http://www.udpsoft.com to get an alternate server browser, and see the other 300 servers you're missing!" Then everybody sees it, whether they arrive from the ingame browser or not, and the word spreads. It's worth trying anyway, until the situation is resolved. Because this does not solve the problem very well. It still means your server wont be listed 95% of the time. If it is and people join who use the in-game browswer.. they will likely just ignore that message. More experienced players will understand and use it. It's kinda hard to explain the whole situation in 1 line of text. BTW I never used a 3rd party program with JK2. I just use the in-game browser.. I hate nag ware and I hate banner ware. And again this is supposed to come with the program right? I mean do I really need this crap? Damn program is asking me register it now and I'm almost out of my trial period. YOu think I am going to pay for this browser program just to play JA ?? ?? I am not one of these pimple faced kids who has 15 different games on their computer. I play only 2 games. Right now JA and HALO. I dont need to be shelling out more cash for something I shouldn't need. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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