Alia Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I was reading Much Ado About Nothing today. Despite the circumstances (over an hour of waiting in a doctor's office with a weird kind of headache) I enjoyed just as much as the first, second, third, and fourth times I'd read it. In fact, I'd say that Much Ado About Nothing is rivaled only by the Taming of the Shrew for its witty repartee between the foremost two characters. And the constables are just hilarious all over. Originally Uttered by Dogberry Marry, sir, they have committed false report; moreover, they have spoken untruths; secondarily, they are slanders; sixth and lastly, they have belied a lady; thirdly, they have verified unjust things; and, to conclude, they are lying knaves. The guy doesn't stop. What I want to know is this: Does anyone share my enthusiasm for this subject? Or did you all tire of Shakespeare's brilliance after completely overanalyzing a tragedy in high school or something? Post your thoughts. And I will strive to post the remainder of mine in a concise and uncrazed manner. Note: If you'd rather rave about Tim Schafer's brilliance here, feel free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivermetimbers Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Tim Schafer and William Shakespeare are the two best people who have come out of the last 500 years. I like greek comedies as well, particularly "The Frogs" by Aristophenes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptdc Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I might have liked shakespeare except the first time I read it, I was being made to read it. So that's put me off looking any further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 If you have the time, read one of those fluffy comedies through. Twice. And if you call me in the morning, I'll tell you what to do. Ok, so I admit the lovers can be extremely sappy. But usually there is something funny up with the main couple...or noncouple...like in Much Ado, Benedick and Beatrice are always arguing and insulting each other, and their friends trick them into falling in love. As You Like It: Rosalind somehow manages to get her Orlando to woo her while she's posing as a guy. (Read it, don't ask.) Taming of the Shrew: Kate's a complete bitch. There are some more I'd like to cite...but I'm being yelled at by someone and must go defend myself. (Nick Bottom....Dogberry....Touchstone....Malvolio....) More anon! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptdc Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I reckon the best thing about shakespeare is that you can steal all his ideas and cleverly disguise them as your own. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 Actually, a lot of his plays were based on stories that already existed. He just took them and made them awesome, and for a stage. Kinda like writing a screenplay from a novel...sometimes changing the story quite a bit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptdc Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Really? Hmm. Well somebodies' getting plagiarised anyway. I also didn't realise until a while ago how many common English phrases and expressions come from shakespeare. I can't remember any of them at the moment though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 Oooh! I found this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Philocleon Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Oh Andy, you might also enjoy this It is full of Shakespearean insults. And I myself am currently reading The Brothers Menaechmus, a play of mistaken identity by the Roman comedy playwright Plautus (254-184 B.C.) and it's said that this play was the inspiration for A Comedy of Errors. That and The Prisoners is another great play of mistaken identity, but it's more of unknown identity rather than mistaken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 There was an interesting documentary on PBS about a year or so back about how more and more "scholars" are buying into the theory that Shakespeare co-wrote most of the plays with... uh... that other writer guy... (can't remember his name, he was allegedly killed, but a lot of people believe he took off and ran to Italy, where also a lot of Shakespeare plays also took play even though Willie had never been there) Anyway, I pass on Shakespeare, unless it's some hip Hollywood version like Romeo+Juliet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahnee Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Remi, I think you might be thinking of Christopher Marlowe. The two were contemporaries, anyway, and I think friends until Marlowe was murdered. Anyway...Shakespeare. I'm a complete Shakespeare geek. I didn't like him at first (a bit put off by "Romeo & Juliet," in which I only liked Mercutio), but I read "A Midsummer Night's Dream" the next year for a class and fell in love with it. The geekery was complete last year, when we read "The Tempest" and hurrah, it was good, the peasants rejoiced, I gave a 15 minute speech on it and loved every minute of it, etc. I'm reading "Macbeth" right now just because..."Tempest" is on my list to reread, and I'm shopping around for a copy of "Romeo & Juliet," too. Think I might give that one another shot. By the way, does anybody read any published "Shakespeare fic"? IE, novels that use Shakespeare as the main character? I've only heard of two -- Ruled Britannia and Ill Met By Moonlight. Britannia is excellent; haven't read Moonlight yet. Actually, Britannia's got a lot of historical figures in it, being an alternate history...Christopher Marlowe, Lope de Vega, etc. Anyway, I'm shopping around for more books like those, too. ...Yes, I am a Shakespeare geek. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Remi Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Marlowe, that's it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 Good point, Remi. I'd heard a lot about Marlowe, and a read a lot of the stuff that was probably meant to shake my views on Shakespeare. But whether Shakespeare actually wrote the plays, or ripped them off, or never existed at all, doesn't really prevent me from enjoying them a whole lot. I'm chuckling a little bit as I post this anecdote someone told me, I never thought I'd retell it myself. Originally relayed by a Wise Old Man A professor who was teaching a class on a Shakespearean tragedy He was starting to go in detail about the text, when one student spoke up. "But Professor, it's been said that Shakespeare didn't write these at all. Wouldn't that make this class a fraud?" "When I refer to Shakespeare," said the professor imperiously, "I am referring to the man who wrote the plays." So it falls a bit flat, but you get the idea. Supposing Marlowe wrote all this awesome stuff, well, then he is more brilliant than I thought he was. Just remember, when I talk about Shakespeare, I mean the man who wrote the plays. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinkie Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 We read 3 of his plays throughout my high school years. Romeo and Juliet, which was boring Julius Ceasar, a little better MacBeth, this one ruled, Banquo is my hero! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thejane Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I like Twelfth Night or What You Will a lot. I mean, a lot. When it comes to people being horribly confused and mistaken identity, tis awesome. It's this comedic comment towards the selfishness of the rich and foolishness of "love." The rich are allowed to play out their fantasies or do "what they will." Will, no matter how pleasurable, is selfish. In this world, the compassionate (Viola) have no power at all because they can not control who they love or empathize with. She's the only one that really loves anyone... besides Antonio. Orsino doesn't really love Olivia or Viola, but he does love the fact that he can play out his pseudo-homoerotic fancy pretending that Viola is Cesario. Meanwhile, Antonio can't live out his love because... **chilling music** He's in love with Sebastian (a man... not a crab). Besides that, he's poor. Poor people can't get what they want. So, while Olivia (who is rich) gets to play out her fantasy marrying a much younger man (Sebastian), which was a big taboo back then, and Orsino (who is rich) gets his goat pretending Viola is a dude, poor Antonio (who is poor and who genuinely does have feelings for Sebastian) dies alone. Well, he doesn't die in the play, but one can assume that he would live his live pining for his rejected love. (I mean, it's Shakespeare.) This is all tied in with mistaken identity, witty banter (Sir Toby and Sir Andrew are particularly funny... especially in 1.3 starting about line 45... Good Mistress Mary Accost... hehehe), and Twins separated at sea. Love it. Highly recommend. I don't, however, recommend Romeo and Juliet. Unless you read it as two ignorant young adults who's child-like romance is manipulated by two selfish adults. But I'll stop ranting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 Did you see the Twelfth Night with Helena Bonham-Carter? Gooood stuff. Sir Andrew Aguecheek I am a fellow o' th' strangest mind i' th' world; I delight in masques and revels sometimes altogether. That whole scene had me cracking up. 1000th post. Yay? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptdc Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 Originally posted by Alia 1000th post. Yay? Quality not quantity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted November 13, 2003 Author Share Posted November 13, 2003 I wanted to be able to search it one day when I'm old and reminescent. Thank you for the worthy admonition. I will strive to remember it all my days. ...You didn't see that version of Twelfth Night, did you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivermetimbers Posted November 13, 2003 Share Posted November 13, 2003 I'm a traditionalist. I like Hamlet. But the tradgedies are awfully depressing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ernil Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Shakespeare? *shiver* we just got done with the poetry unit in school, and I got a full blast of his sonnets. Which SUCK. But we're done with them now. Onto the huge stupid book written in poem form. A whole book! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roytordes'babe Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 It's been a while since I read a one of shakespear's books, I can't remember what I have read and what I haven't, I guess I am going to go and buy some of his books. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivermetimbers Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 Originally posted by Ernil Shakespeare? *shiver* we just got done with the poetry unit in school, and I got a full blast of his sonnets. Which SUCK. But we're done with them now. Onto the huge stupid book written in poem form. A whole book! I hate sonnets too. Interesting. As it is, I am writing an Engilsh paper about one of Mr. Shakespeare's sonnets AT THIS VERY MOMENT. His sonnets are better than most, at least some of them are kind of funny (130, for example). However, it would be much more fun to be writing about "SPEARE : A Theatrical Medley" I hope for your sake you didn't have to read any of Spenser's *gags as she sees the name One can only take so much schmoo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alia Posted November 14, 2003 Author Share Posted November 14, 2003 Yeah, the sonnets can get to you after awhile. Also, the longer poems attributed to him, like The Rape of Lucrece and Venus and Adonis, are kinda...well...fun, lengthy narratives with unhappy endings. I'm not a HUGE fan of the tragedies. The pathos is overdone. Everyone dies in the end. Well, everyone of worth. And the way there is merely a path of broken glory, tears, shame, crime, blood, and bruises. It's like running over innocent things with your car. It's just so depressing. I mean, it's art and artfully done at that. But stories where the hero ends up lying face down in his own gore have a bad effect on me. They tend to evoke a grim outlook on life. Some people like them. And a lot of the times I do too. But crap. Now every one discovers what an empty-headed, shallow, frivolous being I am. Let me die. *stabs herself, purposely makes a snake bite her, takes poison from the pharmacist and then gets in a swordfight with her boyfriend's cousin* *dies lying face down in a pool of her own gore* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shivermetimbers Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 By the way Ernil... What is the whole stupid book written in poem form you have to read? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skinkie Posted November 14, 2003 Share Posted November 14, 2003 I remember doing sonnets last year in school. The hardest part was that they were all named by just numbers and I could never keep them all straight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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