Enhanced WIP: Saber System

[MOTL Robinton]

Hi everyone. I've been following the progress of the mod for over a month now and I have to say, its amazing. However, and please forgive me if this has all been said and explained before, I have a few questions about how to use the new saber systems.

 

1. I don't seem to be hitting anyone or anything and I can in no way kill any NPC or BOT. When swinging, my saber "bounces" off from the direction I was swinging. There is also no bounce effect other than my saber moving in a different direction than I wanted it to. By bounce effect, i mean an actual spark or lighting effect. If this was not to be included yet, then ok. If not, I seem to have a problem.

 

2. Is there a way to manually dodge? If so, then how? And I seem to get the sense there are different types of dodges. If so, when do they occur? Are they more random than they are reactive to elements in the combat?

 

Basically, I'm just wondering what are the core cvars I need to be looking at in terms of modifying the actual gameplay. The saber combat portion I mean. I haven't tried everything yet, but i figured if I post here, I might find out faster.

 

I am in no way upset or frustrated with the system at all. Even if its not working properly on my system for whatever reason, the intent and new features are there and are very well done.

 

Thanks for your time.

[razorace]

I beleive most of that stuff is covered in the ojp_sabersys.txt.

 

The saber bouncing is an effect to prevent saber passthru unless the saber actually killed the player.

[MOTL Robinton]

Thanks. I ran through the cvar list and found everything I needed there and its working %100 perfect now. Really amazing.

 

Just one more quick question. I'm having trouble getting saber throw to work at all. I know it is supposed to be included in the force menu but i can't see to find it or know exactly what its called so i can bind it. In the documentation is says "+button12" but i'm not really sure what button that would be. I know how to bind stuff, just looking for what to call it or how to go about binding it properly.

 

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks.

 

-Robinton

[MOTL Robinton]

nevermind, I got it. Thanks anways.

[Lei Hng Wei]

Uh, mind telling us? I can't get it to work either.

[lazoras]

i dont want this mod turned into a noob fest kinda thing. for example the katas and butterflies. i dont think very many people know how frustrating it is to be a really good saberist and lose a duel because your aponnent did nothing but butterflies or katas.

 

also these extra saber styles i heard about. alot of people didnt like JediMod back in JO because it had the purple and pink saber styles wich were jokes really. the moves were so uneralistic.

 

i think it would be better to add to the game but preserve the heart of the game (the saber).

ive been playing since the day JO came out. and the JA saber handling really annoys me. there are so many things that i try to do but are impossible because of JA's source code where as in JO it was almost limitless. i say almost because i could never jump narshada in one jump always took 2.

 

and i dont think manual saber blocking is a good way to go because what is keeping a person from just blocking? and i know from experience it is easier yet more boring to play defensive when fighting. and its extreemly annoying for the oposing player. manual blocking is like said above. dodging. i dodge all the time, and find that it is hard enough to make my yellow style connect when peeps are just standing there (especialy staff and dual).

one thing i do think would be cool is do have staff be able to use the front, back or both blades. and make yellow style staff be able to do a power move like dual's blue style can do lunge.

 

wrong spot for this but can you make a male twelik that can customize skin color (lots of peeps i see running around as female tweliks just so they can change their skin color)

 

oh yeah. here is another idea.

can you make it so when a person reaches 0 hp they fall to the ground like they are dead but must be finished off. if they arent finished off they lay there for a while maybe 5-10 seconds and then start to get up slowly (as if dieing) and they have like 30 seconds to get some hp or their hp slowly regains like healing themselves 1 hp per minute or something (cant use force while laying down) that way there if you just want to defend yourself or put someone in their place you can without killing them.

[lazoras]

oh yeah. plz keep in mind that this mod is intended to be the unofficial patch for JA.

[lazoras]

ok i just tested teh enhanced beta and i must say im rather disapointed. i would rather use JA moves 1.8 right now.

 

swinging the saber shouldnt take force. and the auto dodging thing...that annoys me because a hit should be a hit. plus it takes forever to kill 1 person not to mention if they run away it is impossible because their dodging force thing regens. plus they can manauly dodge by moving around the old fashioned way and the saber swings are just unrealisticaly slow my friend and i are old school JO players. neither of us took any damage and we dueld for 30 mintues straight. the extra two saber styles were a pain because i couldnt switch the style i wanted fast enough. plus weapons (guns) have a huge advantage over the saber now. i dont think i would want to play a game that takes 30 mins to kill someone. keep the traditional stuff but add to the game. a painting can be ruined with a single stroke too much.

[razorace]

You don't have to remind me what the project is about. I created the project.

 

Anyway, the knockout idea. I remember thinking about that for a while but I'm not sure it would be worth the effort or work out. Causing people to be disabled without being able to do anything for a long period of time would probably frustrate players. It might be an interesting idea for an NPC or team gametypes thou.

 

If you don't want gameplay modifications, just use OJP Basic or stick to admin mods.

[lazoras]

im sry for saying that, but i was kinda excited about the mod but when i tested it i didnt like it as much after playing a couple hours. if you want this mod to be popular enough so that it replaces JA moves and almost everyone who plays JA has your mod than im in the right spot but if your just going for changing JA than im sry for bothering you guys.

 

like i said. i suggested wall hanging to JA when it was being made. when i heard of your wall hanging i was very interested. is there anyway you can add some emotes and some admin powers and things to the basic one?...kinda like a mix of JA moves accept with all the fixes and what not. i know its possible and i know it would be a big hit. but i dont know if anyone really wants to do it. (most modders arent very good at the game but love to change it) as an experienced player but not a modder i thaught i could bring another aspect to your mod.

 

sry for bothering you,

[Samuel Dravis]

As far as I know, there will be no admin powers at all. They cause too much trouble. There may be some admin helper commands, but no 'empowerment' etc.

[razorace]

There are two admin functions that were ported in with Asteroids code but that's it. Beyond that, its just the baseJKA admin stuff, which is basically all you need anyway. Basically everything else beyond that is just crap or abusive admin commands.

 

Secondly, the purpose of OJP is not to be the OMNIMod/JediMod++/JA Moves of JKA. If we were out to do that, we'd been dumping out releases back in the JK2 before JA Moves was a twinkle in Slider's eye.

 

Besides, we gotta make some serious changes to justify the 12+ mg file for the new animations.

[Gotaiken]

laz, calm down razor is working hard to get everything up to par, trust me, issues you speak of are being dealt with, i trust his judgment, if you want to be able to hit someone, do g_dodgeregen 3000, and if you want a more comfortable force setting do g_forceregen 200, a lot has to be done and a lot more still to be tested.

[Gotaiken]

Hello again everyone. Ever since the start of this mod ive seen a great potential for it, razor is a great coder, and a very resourceful guy and has done some stuff in what is said to be a beta, that others havent done in their final projects for mods. However, he is just one person and though there is a team a few people lack the sum of suggestions that a lot of people can give. Whats more is that there arent enough people (in my opinion) voicing their opinions on what should be done, and what they would like implemented.

 

Now this is gonna be a very, very, long read... BUT GUESS WHAT??? YOU WANT TO READ IT, CAUSE I SAID YOU WANT TO READ IT, lol... but seriously, YOU WANT TO READ IT... cause deep down inside for whatever reason, you know you should... rflmao

 

However, before i start there are a few things we need to get cleared up straight of the bat.

 

1. Whether or not any of youd like to believe this, there is ONE FACT that we all KNOW stands true, there is absolutely, positively, undeniably, no point in making this type of mod, something of this greatness, of this calibur, if NO ONE PLAYS IT!!!

 

We have to deal with this mod in the same fashion that a company would deal with their product. COMMERCIALLY. Case and point, end of conversation, discussion over. Now, what your asking yourself is, "What's the best way of dealing with a product of this type?"

 

Here's your answer...

 

By making a product that gives your audience something no one else has, then after that, endorcing it out the wazoo, giving it a great extent of quality, and then, when they like it, when they love it, when they need to play it more than anything else... then, what do you do... you turn around, smiling from ear to ear, slowly raise your hand, lowering all but one finger towards the competion... and GIVE IT SOME F-ING FLARE!!!

 

lol

 

anyways...

 

I dont know about the rest of you, but i want to see this suceed, and you know why? Cause I want to PLAY IT, thats why, and guess what, I WANT TO PLAY IT WITH PEOPLE, i want it to be popular, to be the talk of the online town, to be the next best thing since electricty damnit. I want it to be liked... no, I WANT IT TO BE LOVED!!! So there are REQUIRED measures that everyone involved with this project, and everyone who wants to play this mod, are gonna have to take.

 

1. Voice your opinions, there is no way in having a game that everyone plays, if its based of off shotty ideas, or thoughts only formulized and agreed on by a small percentage of people, tell razor what you think, you never know... that little budding idea in your head just might blossom into flower of success.

 

2. This goes for all the people involved with making this possible.

A. Focus on the things that are gonna make the game better, and/or add a gameplay element to the mod way before you focus on the side stuff.

[Gotaiken]

B. Be prepared to add flare... AND GUESS WHY... I bet you wanna know... heres why, CHANGE, yup CHANGE. People dont want to change, they've gotten their nice little cozy system of play down pact, and they dont want to change it. Change is the top one thing that humans reject. Change is diffrent, change is uncomfortable, change is hard, change means work, change means adapting to a new set of things. No one wants to CHANGE...BUT YOU DO... and you wanna know why, cause you know that you can make this game GREAT, and the easiest way to accept change is to find something better in that change then in the system you were previously dealing with.

 

C. So its a no brainer... FLARE, we NEED flare. Adding flare to the mod will defintely attract more people, the more things that make the mod prettier the more people will initially try to stick with it.Since you guys are going to change the way the game works, people need an insentive to stick with it long enough to get use to the change they have to make. And once they've had time to realize that they've stumbled onto something better, then the flare will keep them from going back to base jka, so the only time they'll be going to base jka will be to tell thier friends to get their arses into OJP.

 

D. Word of mouth, if you test OJP then tell your friends to, the more people that get familiar with a good system the more people that play it, people need acceptance from their peers to do a lot of things. If your friend told you it was good you have more of a chance of trying it out then just hearing about it randomly, the more people that people know playing, the easier it is for those people to want to play.

 

3. To appeal to the audience they seek the creators of this project MUST keep this in mind. You can change the way it works, you can fix it up, BUT YOU CANNOT take away what already attracts people to the game, what attracts people to the game (other than the fact you get a freakin light saber... Comon A FREAKING LIGHT SABER... lol) is the speed, visual effects, the intensity, skill requirement, customization, (what other fighting game can you make up moves that are just as special as the specials from normal attacks) and overall fun factor. These are things that you cannot take away, for everyone of these that you try to replace you'll have to bring in 2 things just as good to compensate for all the whining people just waiting to find a reason to not convert. (so just to keep all that hard work as easy as possible dont do anything that would remove one of these) On another note, increasing any of these factors will undoubtebly draw and keep more people that play the mod.

 

K... Now that that's out of the way, without further adue, here's what YOU'VE ALL BEEN WAITING TO READ....

 

(by the way i think i have a compulsive disorder that makes me want to do things to such degrees, as this long a$$ post clearly concludes in showing) lol

[Gotaiken]

A. BLOCKING

 

This is clearly a terrible problem, it is controllable in base to an extent but it is not reliable enough or effective enough to count on.

 

Razor originally had a pretty perfect auto blocking code (if i may say so myself) however the autoblocking was too perfect and always stopped attacks, and at the same time would often interupt an attack that the user may have initiated. Since this became the case he created the block button. With this new block button you have to control when you block, but there's a problem with it. When you hold the block button, whatever it is that searches for attacks will try to block whatever attack is in play at that precice time, with no regards to timing, so if your holding the block button and someone attacks it will initiate the block at the start of the attack and when the 1st block animation ends it will start up another to try to block what may still be the same attack. The first system didnt do this, so what i was thinking is, how about we take the best of both worlds.

 

In effect what im saying is, you press the block button and for 5seconds you go on the auto block of the previous system without having to worry about timing, technically you still initiated the block (making it skill oriented) but whatever ai it is that does the autoblocking blocks for you, so you dont have to worry about timing (especially since all of the lag and what not) and only have to worry about recognizing when you need to block (which is the extent of skill that blocking should be anyways) when the 5 seconds or however long the decision is to make it ends, the blocking period is over.

 

What someone i was talking to suggested is that when moving forward during a block you get a increased chance of a parry, when pressing back your chance of succesfully blocking goes up more.

 

Crouching should have a penalty with blocking. Running should have a penalty with parries and boost with back blocking, walking should have a boost with parries and penalty with back blocking.

 

B. PARRIES (THE BIGGEST MIX UP IN THE WORLD)

 

Guess what, your WRONG... yup your wrong. Parries arent the attack that you get during the blocking animation, (single red users know what im talking about) nope, thats not a parry. A parry is when you knock your opponent into a saber knockaway. (knockaways dont always happen from just parries by the way) Razor explained this to me and I just thought I'd let everyone know before people came with their "parry" ideas. What you thought was a parry was just an attack that occured from a block (because block animations are so short when its over, as long as your holding attack your saber will launch an attack depending on where it is at the time) animation.

[Gotaiken]

C. SABER STYLES

 

a.All

 

Faster style transistion ie. JKO

 

Time for turning during turn moves needs to be lowered, shouldnt drag out, should be fluid like real life

 

All walking swings faster with less cool down time

 

All Katas should be cancelable (with a penalty to dodge of course)

 

b. Blue

 

Diagnal swings either need to be slowed down or replaced, (between yellow and red animations) because they are very hard to hit with

 

Blocked less

 

Stronger Defense (might not need it with new system)

 

Swing Cap at 8-10

 

A DFA

 

Fix foward attack for duals

 

c. Yellow

 

Back Diagnal swings need to be slowed down a little to add range

 

Diffrent DFA

 

Swing Cap at 6

 

Fix forward attack for staff

 

d. Red

 

Be able to go from any direction to any direction

 

Sped up on transitions

 

Sped up on start time

 

Lower cool down time

 

Swing Cap at 6

 

After 2 of the same attack, turn attack

 

e. Duals

 

Swing Cap at 6

 

Turn times for turn moves needs to be sped up

 

f. Staff

 

Butterfly needs to be dealt with some how

 

Side butterflies are fine

 

Swing Cap at 6

 

Slower

 

Longer

 

Turn moves needed faster turn (staff turn moves are the only ones that are fine as is, but since its gonna be slower, they are gonna need to be faster)

[Gotaiken]

D. WALKING, RUNNING, AND CROUCHING

 

Running should be main method of movement, as to appeal to the masses (keeping walking is not only less fun, but less intense, and slower, 3 things people dont want)

 

Running should be suseptable (sorry for spelling error, here or anyway for that matter) to knockdowns, but not as much as it is now

 

Running back and sideways should be slower, walking is walking there should be no speed change for any direction (if i can run faster backwards than i can walk forward then i can walk just as fast back as forth)

 

Rolling should be easier done, rolling back should be able to be done from standing, with a force cost or dodge cost (maybe a double direction tap while holding crouch could be rolling)

 

There should be a quick movement option, the standing version of a roll, a rush for running, and a smaller dash for walking (a double tap of a direction, and yes razor i know it means buffering lol)

 

E. OOO LOOK MOMMY... A BUTTERFLY

 

How about this, the specials (ie. twirl, butterfly, lunge) could be done by doing a kata press plus a directional press. So for duals press secondary fire and attack plus up does the dual butterfly, pressing back does the twirl, etc. etc. We up the force required to do them all, and everyones happy. One another note doing the normal secondary attack and attack with no direction press would initiate a "combo" power up or something, after which you could customize your kata. You wouldnt have to hold attack youd just press the directional buttons and youd get yourself a nice 10-12 hit combo, during this time your saber speed goes up, and then you go pwn you some jedi. lol. What we can do with the dfa's now free button combo is make up attack jump, a sort of low level flip jump (costing force of course) that you'd guide and launch some attacks on the way. Pressing back and jump attack would be some sort of escape. (we all know the backflip doesnt always help, and this would cost force of course)

 

F. SO PEOPLE DONT SAY "I HATE THIS MOD I GOT ROLLED OFF A CLIFF AND I DIDNT WANT TO!!!!"

 

Force dodge is seemingly a problem on everyones list. Whether or not the roll is fixed, people dont want their nicely placed hits going to waste, with the proposed blocking system there are enough tools for players to properly defend themselves. What i suggest is that somehow we make this remotely controllable. I dont know how, but damnit I've done enough thinking for the day, you guys figure it out, Im done, time to get some rest.

 

READ THE WHOLE POST lol

[keshire]

I admire your persistance. But the audience your talking about isn't the audience we're catoring to.

[Gotaiken]

then whats the point of even trying if your not trying to havve a lot of people play the mod, its like a pointless wasting of effort, there is no point in making something good if no one but a select few enjoy it.

[Lei Hng Wei]

I enjoy it.

 

Ya know, in the time it took to read your posts, they could of finished. Stop wasting their time insulting them and let them get back to work. Hell, take a break OJP. Go out for icecream or a game of dodgeball.

[Gotaiken]

.......... insulting them, rflmao

 

just so you know, razor told me to post the collective ideas that everyone in game gave me (why wouldnt you want the people who want to play, to like what they play)

[Lei Hng Wei]

Originally posted by Gotaiken

then whats the point of even trying if your not trying to havve a lot of people play the mod, its like a pointless wasting of effort, there is no point in making something good if no one but a select few enjoy it.

 

Oh yeah, that isn't insulting whatsoever.

[babywax]

then whats the point of even trying if your not trying to havve a lot of people play the mod, its like a pointless wasting of effort, there is no point in making something good if no one but a select few enjoy it.

They're making it for themselves, it's not like they're here to serve you.

[Gotaiken]

OMG you really dont know what your talking about, ummm... excuse me but i recall razor telling me to post what i had asked (FROM OTHER PEOPLE) in game to what they would like better in the mod, (THIS IS THE PLACE TO VOICE YOUR OPINION) and he ASKED me to post it here rather than just tell him, because he wanted everyone else to hear it so they could judge the ideas and add their own, I didnt mean to sound rude, i just wanted more people to get involved to help razor out. (you might have an idea he would like dont keep it to yourself)

 

I am in no way insulting him, (HE TOLD ME TO POST) so please dont assume that I am, sorry for anyone who felt i was being rude, but I'm trying to be as polite as I can, while still making a valid arguement. I dont know about any of you but I know I may just be the only one who wanted to get teams of people to test. (Because I like the mod and where its going, but as someone who plays the game, and mostly with others, I often tell Razor my input, and he has asked me to post my ideas along with those in game)

 

So please dont go around assuming I'm insulting anyone cause, not to be rude but I'm quite sure that I may have had more input and ideas regarding this Mod (that i've personally been telling Razor) than a lot of other people, so please dont try to disregard me as someone who doesnt care about the mod.

 

Maybe you may not like this mod as much as I do (not saying you dont) but I like it to the point that I'd rather not have it like the rest... NEVER SUPPORTED, how can you blame a player who sees something good and wants to PLAY it with OTHER PEOPLE, for wanting to help it grow in any way that will forward the quality and strengthen the amount of people playing it.

 

Basically what you seem to be saying (sorry if I'm wrong, I appologize if I'm offending you) is that you dont mind if people that play the mod give their ideas, but when they start to take it seriously and want to see it grow in a way that still perserves the quality (and overall vision, which is to make better saber combat) and at the same time attracts more people to play it, (dont know about you but I play this game, for multiplayer) is the the wrong way in thinking.

 

One question...

 

WHY

 

Im sure that you can make it a good chanllenging experience and a great fun having experience at the same time, but before I conclude, may i ask you, why you thought I was being insulting, and what exactly did I say to make you feel this way.