txa1265 Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Not to be exclusionary, but I was just wondering how those of us ... um ... senior gamers felt approaching the Dark Side in KotOR. The thing for me is that this isn't like in Jedi Academy where you just use different powers, and assume a different attitude and have a slightly different ending. Or like the original Jedi Knight, where you just use different powers, kill some civilians, and assume a different attitude and have a slightly different ending. I found this game highly immersive, and I enjoyed building relationships with characters, so I'm finding that many of the choices I need to make in my Dark pursuit are difficult - things regarding dying parents and killing someone's child (sure, he's grown, but) and so on ... ... or maybe I'm just too naturally a lightsider and it has nothing to do with being in my late 30's, having kids I live and breath for, and watching my aging and dying parents and in-laws ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vestril Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Speaking as a younger gamer, I found it very difficult to do many of the dark side things in the game, especially the ones that revolved around hurting people who trusted you. I mean killing Bendak Starkiller in a death match felt like part of just another game. But... hitting the healer up for cash on Taris, or encouraging the kids to attack the poor Ithorian, or having Zaalbar kill Mission are examples of things that made me feel dirty. I think those are marks of a well made game though, it does a good job of drawing you in, and poses real moral question, instead of 'should I randomly kill this Ugnaught or not.' I hope there aren't many people who found the Dark Side of KotOR easy...otherwise I'm going to be nervous about the people around me more often Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 I'm one of them "senior gamers" as well and while I did have a very hard time when going for the DS points, I don't think it's completely due to being a father of two and so on... I'm pretty sure I would have felt maybe not as bad, but still pretty bad about it had I not been a father. Luckily, most of us ordinary people have had some people tell what is right and what is wrong during our childhood... I don't care where you from: Going Dark Side in KoTOR will force you into behaving towards other people in ways you have learned to despise through a lifetime. I did make a DarkSideSithSlut™ just to see "the other half" of the game - the slowly increasing skin decay was an übercool effect btw - but I was surprised to experience just how bad some of the things "she" would make me do made me feel... it's a game for crying out loud, yet I still felt guilty as hell. I will admit though that tearing through the Star Forge with Bastila and HK-47 (the best side kick to ever grace entertainment as we know it!) was great. After all, I was merely using the Dark Side to rid the Galaxy of Darth Malak... honestly I was, then when he died I somehow forgot returning to the light side... In comparison Jedi Academy never has you caring about the characters enough to give a **** really. As a matter of fact it felt kinda nice burrying my saber in Rosh thus going Dark Side. He had it coming from day one if you ask me. And let me just add that even though Jedi Academy looked better, the story in Jedi Outcast was a lot better and immersive... but let's not go there in this thread, sorry. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anti Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 erhm... I loved the original TIE-fighter games! Just thought I'd let you all know where I'm coming from Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 the spoiler tage is inserted with a button at the top of your post screen near your font attributes buttons. you click on it and a little pop up comes up. then you tpe into the pop-up everything you want to have the spoiler tag. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JEDI_MASTA Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 where are the kids that you can get to kill the ithorian? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 you can't actually do what was mentioned. you can refuse to get involved, but it doesn't matter because carth will anyway. you can't actually encourage them to attack him. nor can you join in. in fact on my darkside run-through, i noticed that there were alot of mini-quests like that, that choices you were making that though completely opposite of the ones you made to give you ls points, did nothing towards contributing towards your ds points. and i found that slightly annoying. and yes, the darkside part of the game was rough. though it was amusing at times, it left you feeling very guilty and unsatisfied in the end. it did for me anyway, and i am only 25. so i doubt it has as much to do with age as it would to do with the individual, their personality and morals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clemme w/Stick Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 When playing through as a Dark sider, I had some tough choices to make, and lets be honest. Most of them made me feel guilty. I'm 17 (18 in just 13 days), so I guess that kinda makes me the youngest one in this thread. I've been brought up to help and to care about ppl, so to start killing innocent and treating ppl like ****, just made me feel bad. I loved the DS ending a lot better than the LS, but thats just a matter of taste. The hardest choice in the game, was the one whether to make Zaalbar kill Mission or not. It was the hardest choice by far, but also one of the most funniest. -Clemme Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benn Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 The thing is the Dark Side has always been cooler. Look at the films - massive **** off ships, black armour, lightning - the works! If SW was real life, the Dark Side would've won easily. I find doing a bit of mindless Dark-siding is a good bit of stress relief. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Benn The thing is the Dark Side has always been cooler. Look at the films - massive **** off ships, black armour, lightning - the works! If SW was real life, the Dark Side would've won easily. I find doing a bit of mindless Dark-siding is a good bit of stress relief. Not to be rude, but that is totally off the point of this thread. My point is that in KotOR, compared to many games, the way in which many situations are presented face you with moral issues and dilemmas. The facial expressions and voice acting contribute to your feeling part of the story. The reason I asked this of people over 30 and parents is that by that point most have lost that 'youthful rebelliousness' that makes the dark side seem so fun, mortality has set in as a reality either in your own health issues or seeing parents aging and failing health, and then as parents there is that unique feeling of something that is a part of you, for whom you would give everything, even your own life. I was wondering if anyone else - particular to that age/parenting category - was running into issues carrying out a dark side quest. There are some areas that are just 'part of the game'. Someone mentioned Bendak - I agree. I also had no problem with the Geohardan stuff ... except that I struggled on one where there was an option about killing more than one ... had to take the non-merciful route in the end, though ... Besides which, I don't honestly believe that the Dark Side *would* win ... but perhaps that is why I'm a hopeless light-sider in all of my gaming ... and my life Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-NGE- Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Clemme w/Stick When playing through as a Dark sider, I had some tough choices to make, and lets be honest. Most of them made me feel guilty. I'm 17 (18 in just 13 days), so I guess that kinda makes me the youngest one in this thread. I've been brought up to help and to care about ppl, so to start killing innocent and treating ppl like ****, just made me feel bad. I loved the DS ending a lot better than the LS, but thats just a matter of taste. The hardest choice in the game, was the one whether to make Zaalbar kill Mission or not. It was the hardest choice by far, but also one of the most funniest. -Clemme mwuhaha im the youngest one in this thread (17, 18 in seven months) and even though the dark side was a big guilt trip (especially on taris) i did get a really cool feeling of satisfaction when in the end I unleashed my sith fleet for the conquest of the core worlds ... so it can be cool, as long as you look at it from the "look at me the badass sith" point of view. Also, a really fun way to play the game is so start out as an honest lightsider but decaying more and more each time you find a start map, becoming more and more corrupted. It's roleplaying at its max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Benn Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 My point is that in KotOR, compared to many games, the way in which many situations are presented face you with moral issues and dilemmas. The facial expressions and voice acting contribute to your feeling part of the story. While I don't deny that KoTOR is an extremely immersive game, I can't say it gives me any pangs of regret etc. when I have to do something evil. I am a religious and moral person but I always keep in mind that I'm playing a game - the only worry it gives me is whether I'd be missing out on something in-game by choosing a particular course of action. Perhaps it's because i'm relatively young, footloose and fancy-free that it's like this for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Benn Perhaps it's because i'm relatively young, footloose and fancy-free that it's like this for me. ... and perhaps that is why I stated in the subject I was asking Parents and People > 30 I would have thrilled to both dark and light side back in college ... but I was too wrapped up playing Castle Wolfenstein on the Apple ][+ and Star Trek on the IBM mainframe ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tito Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Correction: I appear to be the youngest one here, unless anybody is less than 14 years old (though I hear from a lot of people that I'm quite mature for my age)... Anyway, the Dark Side path was REALLY hard for me to do at first... I seriously had some real guilt trips about it at first... I mean, trying to rob an old, defenseless man who was nearly killed seconds before? C'mon, now that's just plain evil! But once I got to Dantooine, I was further down the Dark Side, and had grown more acustomed to being evil (plus, lying to the Council was kind of fun)! And once I got to Tatooine where I robbed a certaint woman of her dearest belonging, that was it for me... I now only feel guilty about my bad behaviour at rare occassions! So I guess it's not just with people over 30 and parents that it's like that... It's just such a great game that it can make nearly anybody feel guilty in real life! I mean, JA was fun to play, but still, who really cared about the people there? Edit: 200th post Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bastilla'sMan Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Tito But once I got to Dantooine, I was further down the Dark Side, and had grown more acustomed to being evil (plus, lying to the Council was kind of fun)! Edit: 200th post Lying to the Council might just be the most fun part of playing the Dark Side, because you get away with it so consistently! I just love that I'm lying right in the faces of the most powerful Jedi in the galaxy, and they're buying it! As for the rest; I am over 30, but not a parent, and I have had very few problems playing out my Dark Side run-through. Maybe it's because I'm an experienced role-player, or perhaps because I've even done a bit of acting, but I am able to seperate myself from the game enough to avoid guilt-trips, while at the same time staying into it enough to have fun. Come on, people, it's just a game! No matter what you do in it, nobody is going to get hurt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tito Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Heartless bastard! Well, it's just because I was SO into everything, and I had the joy of going through it on the Light Side first time through, so I knew almost everybody, their stories, and the joy they get out of you being nice to them... That's why the guilt comes... By the way, man, you have some strange dreams!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Mike, I have had some of the same issues that you mention. I find it hard to stick it to those in need, or kill unnecessarily. I am going to try a game where my character goes to the dark side, but that is just to experience that part of the game, as opposed to having a real desire to do all the evil stuff. Being 29, I have gotten past the point where I think evil = cool = bad ass. I find the good characters to be just as tough and powerful as the evil ones. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Prime Mike, I have had some of the same issues that you mention. I find it hard to stick it to those in need, or kill unnecessarily. I am going to try a game where my character goes to the dark side, but that is just to experience that part of the game, as opposed to having a real desire to do all the evil stuff. Being 29, I have gotten past the point where I think evil = cool = bad ass. I find the good characters to be just as tough and powerful as the evil ones. Figured I'd see you here (even though I knew you were just shy of 30 ) Quite honestly playing the dark side is enjoyable. I couldn't use one of my 'main' characters, so I created a female cross-class character persona. I didn't know how far I'd go, but as of now I'm 17th level, and see no reason not to finish. It is interesting as I see people's replies to think abot what has been easy vs. what has been hard to do. I guess to me it is doing personal evil that has bugged me - doing the G-quests was easy, but the first meeting in Anchorhead was very hard ... I know it is only a game, but part of all the RP-ish games I love (JK, JKII, JA, NWN & NWN:SoU) has been the joy and thrill of saving the world/galaxy/whatever by doing good. I remember my first light side point in KotOR ... I just did what I'd naturally do, and got well rewarded! I just hit something like that in the new NWN:HotU expansion - had a group assembled ready to take on my party, but I let them have some gold instead and had them go home to their families, and I got tons of XP and 7 'good' alignment points and everyone was happy - my henchmen were surprised but pleased (even the evil aligned one). Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Prime Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by txa1265 Quite honestly playing the dark side is enjoyable. I couldn't use one of my 'main' characters, so I created a female cross-class character persona. I didn't know how far I'd go, but as of now I'm 17th level, and see no reason not to finish. It is interesting as I see people's replies to think abot what has been easy vs. what has been hard to do. No doubt it is, and I'm looking forward to doing a Dark Side campaign myself. I was just saying that I am keen on playing it because it should be fun, as opposed to thinking evil = cool and good = lame. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 8, 2004 Author Share Posted January 8, 2004 Originally posted by Prime No doubt it is, and I'm looking forward to doing a Dark Side campaign myself. I was just saying that I am keen on playing it because it should be fun, as opposed to thinking evil = cool and good = lame. Of course, what you meant to say was evil = r0x0rz and good = ghey / l4m3rz / n00bz ... It took me 6 years to do the Dark Side of the original Jedi Knight, and I can't see myself doing it for Jedi Academy anytime soon. I think it is a testament to how good this game is (or at least how cool *I* think it is) that within 2 months I'll have done the dark side as well as twice through the light ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 15, 2004 Author Share Posted January 15, 2004 Well, I just completed my dark journey ... and, as I mentioned, it was the small thing - the personal acts of darkness - that were hard, not the big plot elements. All in all, I'm glad I did it - it gave me a complete flavor for the game. The dark vs. light in KotOR is so much more of a branching than in things like JK or JA. I think I'll take a break for a bit ... finish XIII and NWN:HotU and replay JA again before heading back ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Astrotoy7 Posted January 15, 2004 Share Posted January 15, 2004 I see the age issue is weighing heavily on txa's mind ! In a informal age census(!) I initiated in the JA forum it appeeared that he was the current 'fogey', but I too made it onto an 'oldies' list(Im 28) and perhaps for the first time I am reminded of my mortality I agree that certain darkside choices are almost unpalatable. I think it is interesting the devs did this ; it basically emphasises that to become consumed with anger and greed you are walking a dark path, be it in the context of the SW universe/The Force or not ! MTFWBYA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 Originally posted by Astrotoy7 I see the age issue is weighing heavily on txa's mind ! Not so much ... just a coincidence. I was seeing differences in replies regarding playing dark side characters that I thought might have been due to age and/or parenting, and I was having troubles with some of the decisions. I agree that the way the developers laid out the dark side made it a real choice ... and I also like the weighting of powers. I've never believed in what Katarn said at the beginning of Jedi Academy ... force choke *is* a torturous power. Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eidospsogos Posted January 16, 2004 Share Posted January 16, 2004 well i'm only 25, and i tried as hard as i could to go FULL darkside to get the true feel of it. but it was VERY hard. everyone constantly telling you what a monster you are, your party members commenting on your unnecessary greed and cruelty. it was not in the least satisfying for me. the plot itself was great, and i wanted to see how taking it from the darkside would affect it, and i was pleased with the way it was achieved. and that does go to show how great the game is. it was EASY to master the DS. i had it mastered before finsishing dantooine. but all the little things you had to do to gain DS points, while sometimes amusing, in the end just made me feel so guilty that once i mastered the DS, i just ignored sidequests that i knew would cause pangs of conscience. i enjoyed the genoharadan sidequests, but that was about it. it was amusing, and i liked how the plot developed similarly and yet differently on the different sides. it was truly a brilliantly written game. but i found my LS play-throughs much more satisfying. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
txa1265 Posted January 16, 2004 Author Share Posted January 16, 2004 One funny dark-side reproach: Jolee says - Oh, that was great kid, maybe later we can find some insects to pull the legs off' ... he said that a few times to me ... Mike Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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