Saber System Redux

[Darth Sun]

Kata spamming is bad, but it's not as easy as it seems.

Katas always take up 50% of the Force bar, although some do need some severe nurfing.

 

The added moves, like jump+sidestep+primary, are fine, although the jump+forward+primary of Double Saber and Dual Wield Saber styles need some severe fixing.

Jump+back+primary in the Double Saber style is a good move, removing it could actually hinder things; would be good to add a move like this to all the other styles though, not necessarily backward sommersaults, but there's backward butterfly animations (about two if I remember correctly) which are unused in the GLA.

 

Some Katas leave the user completly defenseless in the end, some are quite easy to dodge unless you're sleeping while playing (IMO anyway); removing them would be bad, but toning some down is fine, like making them easilly breakable as if they were regular saber swings (like it was said).

 

Just my two cents.

 

For Chemix:

These sword packs are unfortunetly quite mediocre, they are usually something to include to your JA as a MOD (as in, having their own subfolder) or they sometimes even override files from Base itself.

What some "modders" (sorry, I can't really call these guys modders) don't seem to understand is that adding news swords is NOT making a mod, since they can instantly be accessed in the MultiPlayer saber selection menu (not in SinglePlayer, but you can still use them through the console) just for being in Base with no added modifications.

The SAB file format is quite simple, enables you to make weapons which hit walls, make shields (and make them act like shields), alter animations, alter attacks, etc; adding sabers or new SAB file oriented weapons is no mod, just new weapons to select much like you add new models to select so you can play with them, period.

[razorace]

Originally posted by Darth Sun

The added moves, like jump+sidestep+primary, are fine, although the jump+forward+primary of Double Saber and Dual Wield Saber styles need some severe fixing.

Jump+back+primary in the Double Saber style is a good move, removing it could actually hinder things; would be good to add a move like this to all the other styles though, not necessarily backward sommersaults, but there's backward butterfly animations (about two if I remember correctly) which are unused in the GLA.

 

Agreed for the most part.

 

Right now, I think there's a few things we can do to balance things out. The two major ones that I can think of are the following:

 

- make idle sabers do a significant amount damage (at or near normal attack damage) to players attempting air moves. This would also apply to counterattacks/melee moves that aren't done while the victim is in a knockback. This means you can either knock your opponent into a knockback or just be a very good player.

 

- taking a non-idle amount of damage while in an air move causes you to get knocked onto your butt.

 

So, uh, what sort of moves should be in the counter attack button list? I'm trying to decide if it should be like automatic based on the situation, a specific moves list, or both.

[keshire]

So, uh, what sort of moves should be in the counter attack button list?

 

kata's

[razorace]

Originally posted by keshire

So, uh, what sort of moves should be in the counter attack button list?

 

kata's

 

yeah.....thanks...

[Admiral Chemix]

first of all, mod stands for game modification, it adds something to the game or changes something, therefor sword packs are considered mods. Second of all, counter buttons? For petes sake does anyone listen to suggestions. Ur overcomplicating ur mods saber system beyond beleif. It's going to drive people insane having to do all this crap just for simple moves. Ur ruining a great mod by overcomplicating the fighting system. I suggest u keep the main stuff, the fixes, the new katas, the special kata counters, and just leave it be. People don't want a 10 page manual on how to swing left with a saber

[t3rr0r]

this is for the enhanced version... besides, "overcomplicating" an already simple saber system is not a big deal. i welcome any changes.

[Admiral Chemix]

U seem to be forgetting the meaning of overcomplicate, it means it will no longer be simple, it will be hectic and anoying

[razorace]

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix

first of all, mod stands for game modification, it adds something to the game or changes something, therefor sword packs are considered mods. Second of all, counter buttons? For petes sake does anyone listen to suggestions. Ur overcomplicating ur mods saber system beyond beleif. It's going to drive people insane having to do all this crap just for simple moves. Ur ruining a great mod by overcomplicating the fighting system. I suggest u keep the main stuff, the fixes, the new katas, the special kata counters, and just leave it be. People don't want a 10 page manual on how to swing left with a saber

 

It's not overcomplicated, it's just common sense stuff. The only reason why we're changing anything is because most of us beleive that the saber system is overly simplified and not much fun to play long term.

[Admiral Chemix]

U are making it overcomplicated, yes jka fighting is simple, it's supposed to be that way, it never took away from the fighting experience for me. Simple is good. The real trace or whatever is great, perhaps redo some of the katas and balance out the styles, make defence better, and then leave it be. Manual countering/ blocking sounds like a real pain for those who want to just play the game, follow the rules and have fun.

[razorace]

Those that like the system as is aren't the ones that want to play mod anyway, so I don't see it as a problem.

 

Besides, all I'm trying to do is add some more depth and errr...realism to the combat system, it's not like I'm adding buttons for the hell of it. As is, I've added one button, that's hardly going to break the bank.

[Admiral Chemix]

Alot of people are OK with the saber system and use mods

[t3rr0r]

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix

U seem to be forgetting the meaning of overcomplicate,

on the contrary, i was just reiterating your definition of overcomplicate, hence the quotation marks.

[Master_Keralys]

Admiral - no offense, but if you don't like this saber system, don't play it. It's their mod, the way they want it, not yours. To be honest (and trying not to be rude): Don't criticize it; if you don't like it, go code something else or quite complaining.

 

RazorAce and the OJP team as a whole, thanks for doing this and putting up with the crud people give you. I for one am looking forward to playing this system. My only suggestion for Enhanced is to partition it or something b/c I would like to play some parts some days and not others, etc. But overall, this is great; my compliments.

[Admiral Chemix]

for someone who doesn't mean to be rude, u sure as heck are doing a good job of it. I'm just saying don't overcomplicate the saber system, strongly suggesting it perhaps but still, I am just trying to assist. Yes it is there mod, I'm not trying to force them to change it, I just realy realy thing this will screw OJP advanced, I realy enjoy using the OJP mod, it's great and I wouldn't want it to be ruined.

[GothiX]

Then stick to Basic, and don't play Enhanced.

[razorace]

Originally posted by Admiral Chemix

for someone who doesn't mean to be rude, u sure as heck are doing a good job of it. I'm just saying don't overcomplicate the saber system, strongly suggesting it perhaps but still, I am just trying to assist. Yes it is there mod, I'm not trying to force them to change it, I just realy realy thing this will screw OJP advanced, I realy enjoy using the OJP mod, it's great and I wouldn't want it to be ruined.

 

Before you make judgement I suggest you actually try the system.

[Master_Keralys]

Sorry, I did come off harsher than I intended. All I mean is, as long as you haven't played it yet, don't criticize it; some of us are looking forward to the system, though it's certainly not for everyone.

How long till this is actually out there for the public to try, do you think, Razorace?

[razorace]

Well, part of it is already on the CVS repository, the rest is still being worked on. It will probably be in the next release wave, which is pretty much dependant on getting TCK's RGB saber code into the project.

[Master_Keralys]

Excellent. Now, if we can just get TCK going...

[razorace]

Ok, the Dodge System is working. It just needs a hud icon and some refinements. The major problem I'm seeing right now is that saber attacks are very difficult to dodge as a solid hit passes thru a lot of space that a player is occupying. Meaning that even thou you Dodged the original hit, it can still hit you, espeically when the dodge animation doesn't get you fully out of the way of the blade.

 

Any suggestions on how to fix this?

 

Secondly, I got the code from TCK and will be intergrating it myself. Hopefully it will be ready for release soon.

[razorace]

All the latest code has been added to the repository.

 

The new stuff includes...

 

- Fatigue:

 

Your Force Points now regenerate at a slower rate and most combat actions cause Force/Fatigue Points. Attempting a saber move that costs more than your current FP will result in you doing the move much slower than normal. The objective of this system is to make players concentrate on fighting smartly by effective mixes of attacking and defending.

 

Fatigue Regen Rates (dependant on g_ForceRegen setting):

Standing = Standard (= 1 FP per g_ForceRegen milliseconds)

Running = No Regen

Walking = Standard/2

Meditate (using the meditate taunt) = Standard * 3

 

Fatigue Costs:

Standard Saber Attack = 1

Standard Saber Spin (transition) = 1

 

- I've set up some easy to find tags for the defines that determine their behavior.

Saber System (SaberSys) = SaberDefines

Fatigue System (FatigueSys) = FatigueDefines

Dodge System (DodgeSys) = DodgeDefines

 

Dodge:

 

Dodge is a brand new system that prevents you from taking damage. Whenever an attack is going to hit you, Dodge takes over and either automatically moves your saber to block the attack (Dodge Block) or Evades out of the way. Dodge operates from a Dodge reserve that is seperated from the other stats (health, ammo, etc). The new Hud in the upper left part of the screen displays how many Dodge Points (DP) you have. Dodge has a maximum of 100 points and is refilled by draining energy from your Fatigue (Force) Points at a ratio of 6 DP to 1 FP. Dodge regens at a much faster rate than Fatigue (is controlled by g_dodgeRegenTime).

 

There are several different types of Dodge:

 

Dodge Block - If the player is using a light saber and not attacking, he will automatically attempt to block incoming light saber attacks. This is the first line of Dodge defense. This currently doesn't have an DP cost but it also doesn't have the parry bonus of a manual block.

Dodge - The player physically evades an attack. This currently only works for saber attacks. Cost is dependant on method of attack.

Sabers = 30 DP.

Dodge Roll - When normal Dodge fails, like say when a very solid saber swing continues to hit the player, the player will launch into a Dodge Roll

 

Situations where Dodge doesn't work:

Choking

Knocked to the ground

In mid air

 

It's very important to remember these situations as sabers are VERY lethal without Dodge.

 

Dodge Cvars:

 

g_debugdodge 0 = debug cvar for Dodge. Set to 1 to receive messages whenever Dodge is used.

g_dodgeRegenTime 555 = Controls the rate at which Dodge regens. The value is in msecs between regens.

[Darth Sun]

Sounds great to me, RazorAce.

Keep up the good work. ^_^